IFR magazine questions

[Dr. Bill]

I got an advertisement for IFR magazine. In it was a slip of paper telling neat information/tricks the the magazine would be providing to aid in IFR flights. Most of the 'teasers' I had an answer for.... For 4, I didn't. What do ya'll think the answers to these four MIGHT be:

1. Two stupid words in your first transmission to ATC that make the controller tag you as an "amateur".

2. How to fly the approach without the plate. Not recommended, but it can be done.

3. Take the stress out of ILS with a turn or two of the most underutilized control device in the cockpit.

4. Asking ATC for this little-known clearance can get you direct when everyone else is being re-routed.

(I thought #3 might be the trim wheel, but they say "underutilized"...)

 

[CJones]

1. Two stupid words in your first transmission to ATC that make the controller tag you as an "amateur".

"...with you..."

2. How to fly the approach without the plate. Not recommended, but it can be done.

Hmm... Not sure.. Maybe ask for fixes and crossing altitudes at those fixes?

3. Take the stress out of ILS with a turn or two of the most underutilized control device in the cockpit.

Trim wheel. I've flown with a few people and the trim wheel is VERY underutilized with them.

4. Asking ATC for this little-known clearance can get you direct when everyone else is being re-routed.

No clue.

 

[Dr. Bill]

The more I think about it...
#4 may be 'tower enroute clearance'; or contact approach.
#2 may be "Cessna XXX, can tower confirm radar contact"; or PAR/ASR.

 

[KennyFlys]

Number 4, I'd have to go with Contact Approach.

No clue on #2.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

#2 is easy. Just Ask for it! They will read it to you. They may also read you a phone number but that's another story. There could be other answers.
No way #1 is "with you". If that is the answer they give, then they either don't listen to atc much as it is said a thousand times a day by high time professionals at almost all the majors on down, OR they are trying to modify behavior. Not saying the latter is wrong, but that doesn't make the answer right!

 

[drafttek]

1. "Umm...Uh..."

2. Airport Surveillance Radar Approach. Page 10-18 Instr. Flying Handbook

3. Trim wheel

4. Dunno

 

[KennyFlys]

"...with you..."

Short Final
April 8, 2007
Overheard in IFR Magazine's "On the Air"


I heard this somewhere out East while in the clag and trying to find an approach plate:

Piper: Center, Lance Six Two Eight One November, with you at 7,000 feet.

Center (sounding tired): Lance, Six Two Eight One November, roger. But two things: first you don't need to say "feet" because that's understood. And more importantly, you aren't "with me." I know everybody in this radar room, and you aren't here.

We have a winner!

 

[ScottM]

1. Two stupid words in your first transmission to ATC that make the controller tag you as an "amateur".

In the Chicago area that would be any transmission that does nto start with, United, American, Delta, Continental, Southwest, etc.
[/quote]

 

[Ghery]

I'll take this one step further. I'm working on my IR and I've been getting ads in the mail for ages for IFR Magazine. Is it any good? I used to subscribe to Aviation Safety until Ken and they parted ways and the magazine went down hill. Is this pub any better?

 

[bbchien]

Ghery, the problem with Jeff Van West's stewardship of IFR is that he can't decide if it is the "magazine for the accomplished pilot" or whether or not he's trying to please the Belvoir volume-sensitive business model- e.g, the "magazine for anybody with $79.00".

I took him to task about his missive that the 3 prelaunch screens on the SR22 shouldn't be "Have you done the weight and balance?" inquiries, but should tell the pilot what his still air ground roll needs be at Gross, given the ambient pressure.

He doesn't seem to understand that once the pilot has powered up his G1000, he's going to fly. The decision has been made. It's a chronic problem with "split" personality. Bertorelli and Ibold, if I may say so, were at odds over just this "volume sensitive" nature of the Belvoir empire.

That having been said, I obviously subscribe. But NOT to IFR refresher. That's a waste.

 

[deafsound]

In don't like that rag either. I signed up for a trial magazine, then they kept sending me the thing and tried to bill me for it. That wasn't the reason I didn't like it, but I sure didn't like being trying to be billed for something that I didn't ask for.

 

[Bill M.]

I'll take this one step further. I'm working on my IR and I've been getting ads in the mail for ages for IFR Magazine. Is it any good? I used to subscribe to Aviation Safety until Ken and they parted ways and the magazine went down hill. Is this pub any better?

IMHO, IFR and Av.Safety used to be more informative and interesting, but most of the stuff just doesn't appeal to me. I let IFR go several years ago, but hold on to AvSafety hoping it'll get better. And besides, if I run out of toilet paper...well.

 

[jdwatson]

I subscribe to both IFR & IFR refresher. I like the quizzes and the articles. I'm new enough to aviation to not have much to compare with. My IFR experience is also low so I seem to learn something from each of them. Maybe as I gain more experience my opinion will change.

 

[gprellwitz]

I subscribe to both IFR & IFR refresher. I like the quizzes and the articles. I'm new enough to aviation to not have much to compare with. My IFR experience is also low so I seem to learn something from each of them. Maybe as I gain more experience my opinion will change.

That's about where Leslie and I are. We subscribe to quite a few aviation magazines, and try to read most of them cover-to-cover. The main exceptions are the EAA magazines concentrating on Sport Pilot.

 

[flyersfan31]

What is the answer to (1)?

I agree, "with you" is stupid! But I hear about 80-90% of airline pilots (I assume they count as professionals) check in with the dreaded "with you" in my travels. I wince every time I hear it. I've said it twice and felt like puking from the feelings of remorse and shame. Again, though, it doesn't brand you as an amateur if the pros are doing it. Does it?

I also hate hearing "xxxx on the meter." Really irritates me. Another thing the "pros" do. So what do I know??????

 

[bbchien]

"got 'em on the fishfinder...." sigh.

 

[wsuffa]

"got 'em on the fishfinder...." sigh.

"Out of 3 point 7 for 13-zero..." sigh.

 

[jason]

"Out of 3 point 7 for 13-zero..." sigh.

"Taking the active" sigh

 

[tonycondon]

"gastons traffic 283DC departing uhhhh 6 errrr 24 or whatever that runway is" sigh

 

[mikea]

"gastons traffic 283DC departing uhhhh 6 errrr 24 or whatever that runway is" sigh

Who was it who said, "Six-zero?"

I wish we had had the return of the good ol' boy who was landing at "Gaskins."

 

[gismo]

"gastons traffic 283DC departing uhhhh 6 errrr 24 or whatever that runway is" sigh

Well you gotta expect that when the numbers aren't painted on the runway!

Seriously, though I have to admit that I've had trouble keeping the numbers straight as well as which way is north when I'm on the ground at Gastons. Maybe we should ask them to put up a sign on the "arrival" end of 6.

 

[nddons]

I'll take this one step further. I'm working on my IR and I've been getting ads in the mail for ages for IFR Magazine. Is it any good? I used to subscribe to Aviation Safety until Ken and they parted ways and the magazine went down hill. Is this pub any better?

Ghery, did you ever get this magazine and are you happy with it? I was going to post this question, but was a good little drone and used the search function first.

I'm about 2/3 of the way through my IR training, and was wondering if this magazine was worth it.

 

[roncachamp]

No clue.

The answer they're looking for is probably VFR-on-Top.

 

[roncachamp]

Number 4, I'd have to go with Contact Approach.

I don't think so, "get you direct when everyone else is being re-routed" implies enroute.

 

[roncachamp]

2. Airport Surveillance Radar Approach. Page 10-18 Instr. Flying Handbook

There is no plate for an ASR approach.

 

[CT Arrow]

Since were on the subject...I recieve IFR, Av. safety and Consumer Av., all releases of Belvoir Publishing. Most were up for renewal and decided that I would renew based on a "bundled" price. A call was placed to the Subscrip. Office in Florida and a bundled price was given w/ decent savings. It required a three year commitment but no biggie! Bottom line: If you subscribe to 2 or more for any period of time, it may be worth while making a phone call..

 

[PittsDriver]

IFR is way better than IFR Refresher IMO. I've got 1500 hours+ in the system and I still learn something new in just about every issue. The contributing editor of IFR for weather is Scott Dennestadt who's about the best in the business at aviation weather knowledge.

 

[ScottM]

Ghery, did you ever get this magazine and are you happy with it? I was going to post this question, but was a good little drone and used the search function first.

I'm about 2/3 of the way through my IR training, and was wondering if this magazine was worth it.

Stan I used to get that magazine. It sometimes had some great stuff in it. But I stopped the subscription mostly due to repetition in their issues. It seemed that they would cover the same topics over and over each year.

 

[jkgoblue]

Ahh... not to sound like an amateur but what is the correct wording for your initial contact with approach? I have been saying "with you" forever...

Would it be " NY approach Arrow N123 at 2000 for 3."?

or with tower... "tower, Arrow N123 checking in."?

And to think I thought I was so professional. How come my instructor never gave me a heads up on this?

 

[ScottM]

Ahh... not to sound like an amateur but what is the correct wording for your initial contact with approach? I have been saying "with you" forever...

Would it be " NY approach Arrow N123 at 2000 for 3."?

or with tower... "tower, Arrow N123 checking in."?

And to think I thought I was so professional. How come my instructor never gave me a heads up on this?

well it is not:

"ahhh, N1234, ahhh, with you, say I forgot my chart what was the identifier for my airport so I can put it in the gps, oh and I am ahhh, going to need a different altitude if you can ahhhh give it to me"

But I have heard the above before.

FWIW I never say "checking in" or "With you", I saw "Podunk Approach, N8116B, level (or passing through)xxxx feet, climbing, descending XXXX feet". on occasion I have been told to pass on additional information by the guy handing me off. When that happens I comply.

 

[Flybob37]

SoCal Approach, Piper xxxxx, level five thousand five hundred.

Done. Nothing more. If climbing I say, three thousand two hundred climbing five thousand five hundred.

Don't use the word "to" because it could be misinterpreted as "two" and then added to my altitude I'm climbing to.

And don't use the word "feet" because it's not needed, as noted in an earlier post.

well it is not:

"ahhh, N1234, ahhh, with you, say I forgot my chart what was the identifier for my airport so I can put it in the gps, oh and I am ahhh, going to need a different altitude if you can ahhhh give it to me"

But I have heard the above before.

FWIW I never say "checking in" or "With you", I saw "Podunk Approach, N8116B, level (or passing through)xxxx feet, climbing, descending to XXXX feet". on occasion I have been told to pass on additional information by the guy handing me off. When that happens I comply.

 

[ScottM]

Don't use the word "to" because it could be misinterpreted as "two" and then added to my altitude I'm climbing to.

You are right. I wrote it but I don't say it.

 

[jason]

Ahh... not to sound like an amateur but what is the correct wording for your initial contact with approach? I have been saying "with you" forever...

Would it be " NY approach Arrow N123 at 2000 for 3."?

or with tower... "tower, Arrow N123 checking in."?

And to think I thought I was so professional. How come my instructor never gave me a heads up on this?

There are about 3,000 threads on this issue. If you search for "with you" you'll get all the advice you could ever want.

To your credit, you're the first person that I've seen walk in on the board and ask this question without getting defensive (including myself). Good on you.

To answer your question, you can replace "with you" with information that actually tells them something.

• Switching center sectors - "Center, Arrow 123 level 8000"
• Tower -> Departure - "Departure, Arrow 123 3200 climbing 7000"
• Center -> Approach "Approach, Arrow 123 VFR with Whiskey"
• "Tower, Arrow 123 VFR left base 17" (If you're checking in with tower after approached put you on left base and asked you to switch)

I've found that if I pay attention there is always something that I can say that gives them information. I realized that "with you" was just filler because I didn't know what to say.


EDIT: I guess you can't search for "with you". The words are too common.

 

[RotorAndWing]

2. How to fly the approach without the plate. Not recommended, but it can be done.

Years ago I was flying a charter in a Cessna 404. I came through a line of thunderstorms and lots of convective activity in the area. It was a bad ride, and at one point my charts dropped down to the floor board on the copilot's side. I just told the approach controller I couldn't reach my charts and I needed the info for the ILS. No problem, he read off the information and I continued and landed.

 

[jkgoblue]

There are about 3,000 threads on this issue. If you search for "with you" you'll get all the advice you could ever want.

To your credit, you're the first person that I've seen walk in on the board and ask this question without getting defensive (including myself). Good on you.

To answer your question, you can replace "with you" with information that actually tells them something.

• Switching center sectors - "Center, Arrow 123 level 8000"
• Tower -> Departure - "Departure, Arrow 123 3200 climbing 7000"
• Center -> Approach "Approach, Arrow 123 VFR with Whiskey"
• "Tower, Arrow 123 VFR left base 17" (If you're checking in with tower after approached put you on left base and asked you to switch)

I've found that if I pay attention there is always something that I can say that gives them information. I realized that "with you" was just filler because I didn't know what to say.


EDIT: I guess you can't search for "with you". The words are too common.

Thanks. It seemed like an harmless question. Some might take offense to others reactions but I'm just always trying to be a better, safer pilot. I've been flying around NY for 5 years and been scolded a few times by controllers, sometimes justly, other times not. Have to take it in stride and always learn from others.

 

[jason]

Thanks. It seemed like an harmless question. Some might take offense to others reactions but I'm just always trying to be a better, safer pilot. I've been flying around NY for 5 years and been scolded a few times by controllers, sometimes justly, other times not. Have to take it in stride and always learn from others.

Kudos to you and welcome to the board.

 

[mikea]

In don't like that rag either. I signed up for a trial magazine, then they kept sending me the thing and tried to bill me for it. That wasn't the reason I didn't like it, but I sure didn't like being trying to be billed for something that I didn't ask for.

Any magazine you make the mistake of subscribing to, although Belvoir is something else,...you can enclose a check for the first three year subscription and the first piece of mail you get in a few days will be "URGENT NOTICE!" that you have limited time to renew your subscription at 43% off of the newsstand price, whatever a newsstand is. Your first issue will come 3 weeks later.

Thus my Mom's Reader's Digest subscription is paid through 2013 and I get such a message 2-3 times a month as well as enclosed outside of the magazine.

 

[Mpeavler]

4. Declare Min fuel.....my old CFII always used this in the Orlando area...and bam...we never got re-routed....EVER!

M

 

[john smith]

4. Declare Min fuel.....my old CFII always used this in the Orlando area...and bam...we never got re-routed....EVER!

Don't count on it.
Back in '86, I flew with a friend from CMH to PBI in a Cessna 310.
When we switched to Approach, they wanted to vector us 50 miles west of PBI, out over the Everglades, for the approach. My friend (an FAA FSDO Inspector) declared minimum fuel and they essentially told him "Unable at this time, fly your last instructions."
So he canceled IFR and we landed at Fort Lauderdale, bought cheaper fuel and continued VFR and got right into PBI.

 

[wabower]

Stan I used to get that magazine. It sometimes had some great stuff in it. But I stopped the subscription mostly due to repetition in their issues. It seemed that they would cover the same topics over and over each year.

So based on that criteria I assume you don't subscribe to any aviation trade mags?