IFR is so nice

DesertNomad

DesertNomad

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
2,464
Location
Northern NV
Display Name
Display name:
DesertNomad
We have just flown our Dakota from Reno to Detroit, IFR all legs but one. Today through the busy Chicago airspace it made everything easy. Much nicer than our VFR trip last year.

I am still working on copying the clearances well. Today they gave me a completely different routing and not being a local, I had to ask him to repeat it and spell the fixes. how do you guys deal with unfamiliar fixes when thousands of miles from your stomping grounds?
 
DesertNomad said:
We have just flown our Dakota from Reno to Detroit, IFR all legs but one. Today through the busy Chicago airspace it made everything easy. Much nicer than our VFR trip last year.

I am still working on copying the clearances well. Today they gave me a completely different routing and not being a local, I had to ask him to repeat it and spell the fixes. how do you guys deal with unfamiliar fixes when thousands of miles from your stomping grounds?
Click to expand...
Exactly what you done, make them spell them. Often they just do it anyway
 
What the others have said, ask to have it spelled out.

Leaving Winchester, Virginia (KOKV) on Saturday I got a fix (COGAN) that did not show up on the IFR low or VFR chart. I was number two to depart so I kept looking. I brought up the RNAV GPS 32 approach and sure enough it was the FAF on that plate. That was a first. If I was number one to go I would have had to ask where the heck that fix was located.
 
You get used to it with experience. There are times you need them to repeat, but less often with more experience.
 
IFR is nice in many situations, but on a crystal clear day flying from the south to White Plains can be frustrating.
- That's just one example.
 
try understanding a clearance from a Brooklyn accent spewed out at 100 words a minute- having grown up in NYC I'm ok with it - but I have heard a few Asian & European pilots just stumbling over their words- thank goodness for the cockpit printers -
 
Kritchlow said:
IFR is nice in many situations, but on a crystal clear day flying from the south to White Plains can be frustrating.
- That's just one example.
Click to expand...

Agreed, they route you low over Jersey. Lots of fixes, mostly superseded by vectors but still low and circuitous.

What do you do VFR? Class B clearance or just under it?

Related subject; I'm learning to VFR when wanting to fly over many Class Bs. The controllers often seem to welcome the cancellation including the NYC crew on west-east transits. I recall a east to west transit where they cleared my via Kingston or something until I cancelled when they gave me immediate clearance thru the Class B at 6.

Everybody does it a bit differently.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Are you getting the expected clearance? That allows you to look at the u familiar names and spellings. You can get them from Foreflight or FlightPlan.com.

Alan
 
comanchepilot said:
try understanding a clearance from a Brooklyn accent spewed out at 100 words a minute- having grown up in NYC I'm ok with it - but I have heard a few Asian & European pilots just stumbling over their words- thank goodness for the cockpit printers -
Click to expand...
Yeah... PDC's are great.
I was refereeing to reroutes after departure.
 
So long as you are on V1/16 to JFK and then V229 to BPT or east - you can generally be at 7500 [which is over the Bravo airspace] - if you are a single you are at 5000 - if you are over 150kts they may assign you 7000 . . .
 
Many advantages to filing. Just thinking...what are the disadvantages to filing?
I fly a regular route in which I often face this choice. File or not?
Usually I don't. Wx permitting, of course.

Filing, you expect some separation, traffic pointouts.
Filing, you are a zillion times more likely to run up into a violation of some kind. (But we all do our ifr flying by the book, I know.)
Filing, you have to listen up on the radio enroute and respond to calls etc. (annoying; let me sleep)
Not filing, you can sightsee and wander a bit, including altitude.
Filing, much easier through busy airspace and assurances through Class B/C
Filing, they often warn of TFRs, and keep you clear of hot MOAs, occasionally will arrange passage through R-space.
Not filing, you get the altitude you want and won't be assigned something undesirable.
Filing, you often get awesome weather assistance.

I suppose some of these apply to flight following too.
 
For me, the main disadvantage is routing. Depending on where I'm going, filing can add an extra 10-20 minutes. I'll always go VFR when I can.
 
luvflyin said:
Exactly what you done, make them spell them. Often they just do it anyway
Click to expand...
Lol, that reminded me of one trip...I filed direct to an IAF at my destination which put me directly over MSP and above the Bravo. About 20 miles or so from the Bravo the expected "advise when ready to copy" call came. The controller very slowly said "direct mumble Golf Echo Poppa direct destination." At least that is what it sounded like to me. I read back direct Golf Echo Poppa direct destination and that was fine with the controller. Then I did what I always do in these situations I asked myself whereinthehelldidijustgetsent? Looked at chart, chuckled a bit, entered direct GEP in the 90B and went on my merry way. I think a whole 10 degree turn was required.

About the time I was over GEP the same controller very precisely pointed out an airliner on approach. I reported in sight and the controller noted he would pass ahead of and below me both of which I could readily see. Anyway the controller definitely was taking care of the one little spam can he was talking to on that frequency at the time. All this was surprising to me because I'd gotten used to the 600 wpm stuff interspaced with being forgotten about from Denver approach controllers on lowish IMC days. Not dissing Denver approach at all things just get really busy and they really do try to accommodate everyone.
 
DesertNomad said:
We have just flown our Dakota from Reno to Detroit, IFR all legs but one. Today through the busy Chicago airspace it made everything easy. Much nicer than our VFR trip last year.

I am still working on copying the clearances well. Today they gave me a completely different routing and not being a local, I had to ask him to repeat it and spell the fixes. how do you guys deal with unfamiliar fixes when thousands of miles from your stomping grounds?
Click to expand...
Make them spell it, but realize that you may and often will get updated routing while in the air, anyway.
 
With my IR ticket still not being quite dry yet, I pretty much file for everything just for the experience. Personally, when flying for the purpose of 'getting somewhere', I prefer to file. I want to be directed (safely) to my destination. I want to be held to a stricter level of performance.

I have yet to be given a roundabout routing, but I imagine if that were a regular occurrence, I might think twice about filing IR all the time. I'll probably learn more about when that is likely to happen as I fly more IFR.

If sightseeing, definitely VFR.
 
Rykymus said:
With my IR ticket still not being quite dry yet, I pretty much file for everything just for the experience. Personally, when flying for the purpose of 'getting somewhere', I prefer to file. I want to be directed (safely) to my destination. I want to be held to a stricter level of performance.

I have yet to be given a roundabout routing, but I imagine if that were a regular occurrence, I might think twice about filing IR all the time. I'll probably learn more about when that is likely to happen as I fly more IFR.

If sightseeing, definitely VFR.
Click to expand...
That's what I did as well. When I first got my ticket, I filed for every flight just to get the experience and stay "current." Once I got more experience and was comfortable with IFR flying, I just filed when necessary.
 
Using foreflight IFR low,and having a general idea how your going to be routed,makes it easier if you find it on the chart,if you don't understand the fix ask for a spelling,and if airborne ask for an initial heading.
 
I've never found IFR through Chicagoland to be "nice." They always want me to go to KELSI.
 
GMascelli said:
What the others have said, ask to have it spelled out.

Leaving Winchester, Virginia (KOKV) on Saturday I got a fix (COGAN) that did not show up on the IFR low or VFR chart. I was number two to depart so I kept looking. I brought up the RNAV GPS 32 approach and sure enough it was the FAF on that plate. That was a first. If I was number one to go I would have had to ask where the heck that fix was located.
Click to expand...

Interesting. When I put it in FF it locates it. there is no marked intersection on the chart, but it does locate it for you.
 
Yesterday flying from Vermont down here to the DC area I received several reroutes while in the air. At least twice I had to ask the controller to repeat part of a clearance as I was hearing enough distortion that even phonetic spelling was occasionally not working for me, plus these were mainly New York controllers talking a mile a minute. But my own clearance copying was also rusty: I would get behind trying to work out what I had missed (often one or two syllables), and as a result missed a lot more than I otherwise would have had I simply copied what I heard clearly and then gone back at the end and asked them to repeat the waypoint or VOR after, say, LAAYK. Like when copying code (Morse, that is), it's a lot worse when you fixate on what you don't get. That's something I'd forgotten in my 1.5+ years grounded.
 
Rykymus said:
With my IR ticket still not being quite dry yet, I pretty much file for everything just for the experience. Personally, when flying for the purpose of 'getting somewhere', I prefer to file. I want to be directed (safely) to my destination. I want to be held to a stricter level of performance.

I have yet to be given a roundabout routing, but I imagine if that were a regular occurrence, I might think twice about filing IR all the time. I'll probably learn more about when that is likely to happen as I fly more IFR.
Click to expand...
Same here except my ticket never dries. I have yet to reach a point where IFR proficiency is no longer a challenge.

A <2 hour route I fly regularly is always cleared direct and flown at the altitudes of my choosing. It's usually VFR but I almost invariably bust a cloud or layer along the way (filing is handy for that). The benefit comes when the Wx goes to hell. Knowing the ATC handoffs and freqs removes just one more layer of distractions while I make up tactics to avoid the ice or circumvent the Tstorms.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Here are a few tips:

1. Try getting the clearance in the FBO with a handheld radio. Much easier in a quiet environment without any sense of haste.

2. Spend a few minutes familiarizing yourself with the departures and airways in the direction you wish to fly.

3. Spend a while listening to clearances given to others traveling in your direction. Notice the routes they are given, you will likely get a similar routing.

4. File with Foreflight if you aren't already doing so. You will receive an email from Foreflight advising you of the expected routing they received from ATC.
 
TigerGene said:
4. File with Foreflight if you aren't already doing so. You will receive an email from Foreflight advising you of the expected routing they received from ATC.
Click to expand...
But don't necessarily "expect" the expecting routing. Both going down to DC and coming back, my ATC cleared routes were VERY different from my expected route. (And my route down is now a new ATC cleared route in FF's database.)
 
Departure: *insert 6 fixes here*

Spam can: "Departure, can you spell those fixes for me?"

Departure: "Amendment to your routing... Cleared direct."
 
IFR clearance out of MDW in a 172, "Radar vectors 090 to point X" After departure on a SB RWY, "Turn right, heading 270." After I hit DPA area they finally turned me north like I was wanting to go.
 
TigerGene said:
1. Try getting the clearance in the FBO with a handheld radio. Much easier in a quiet environment without any sense of haste.
Click to expand...

You might get to do a Le Mans-style takeoff though if you get a "void if not up in 5 minutes" clearance...
 
luvflyin said:
Exactly what you done, make them spell them. Often they just do it anyway
Click to expand...

For filing I use FltPlan.com, you can see the most commonly cleared routes and it's also better at calculating times and fuel burns.

If I'm flying somewhere where I expect crazy routing, I'll go to FlightAware.com and search my N number just before I call up to get my clearance, 9.9/10 times the routing you'll see in FlightAware after your flight plan activates (but before calling clearance/groind/ATC up) is exactly what they'll give you, all spelled out nice and easy, copy past into foreflight, enter into your GNS/FMS/whatever and bobs your uncle




coma24 said:
5 mins? Cry me a river, I've had 2 minute releases at N07 when NY is busy.
Click to expand...

"Hey clearence, don't mean to cut you off, but Amphib 123Z is going to just go VFR"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top