IFR Clearance you Cannot Follow

Jeff767 said:
You can’t declare an emergency because you don’t like a clearance unless in fact you are in an emergency state. Your example of an attempt to turn you into a thunderstorm would qualify. Not liking the assigned approach would not qualify. You would be expected to ask for a different approach and if ATC unable divert to another airport. ATC does have ways of pushing an issue. Fighter jets by their nature like to stay high with an idle decent. Penetration style approaches are available for their use and ATC must allow that option if requested. Sometimes however if you refused a enroute descent the controller said roger you are cleared to the IAF for the penetration approach, hold as published expect further clearance at XXXX. This was usually followed by cancel that request we will take the enroute. The same might well apply in this case. A vector for the requested approach with a EFC. Your choice would be to accept it or divert. Declaring a emergency would not be a option.
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What if you're unwilling to take the approach over water because your engine is running rough and you think it might quit?


:devil: :D
 
You should already have declared a emergency and be landing at the nearest suitable airport.
 
You can always declare an emergency for any reason.
That said, you may have to justify it afterwards if the Feds wish to push it.
 
This isn't that difficult. Tell the controller what you can not do then negotiate for what you need. Happens all the time.

If you need something significantly different from what all other traffic is doing at a busy airport there may be a delay to get what you need. Sometimes that delay will exceed your available fuel supply.
 
I feel like declaring an emergency because of routing would not be a justifiable cause
 
midwestpa24 said:
Engine was running rough...
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Here's one potential follow up.

You land, have lunch, and leave. Two days later, you get a call from the FAA. No, they are not challenging your emergency declaration. They are asking about whether to took off with an unairworthy aircraft.

Of course, since your engine was running rough, you had a mechanic check it out before you left again, right?
 
midlifeflyer said:
Here's one potential follow up.

You land, have lunch, and leave. Two days later, you get a call from the FAA. No, they are not challenging your emergency declaration. They are asking about whether to took off with an unairworthy aircraft.

Of course, since your engine was running rough, you had a mechanic check it out before you left again, right?
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Yes. It was carb ice. ;)
 
EdFred said:
Yes. It was carb ice. ;)
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Most pilots who were lying to begin with are probably not smart enough to think of that.

but yes, that's exactly what happened to one of my clients. There were several follow up questions he was prepared for because it was real.
 
As far as flying over water, Cessna typically sold the most SEL aircraft in the Great Lakes region for obvious reasons. That's the market speaking.

As far as "can I accept this clearance" here's one (true) from the past.

On the ground at KBOS, request to pick up a clearance to an airport a little west of KALB. A little less than 200 nm flight. Fuel is loaded and planned for this flight.

Takes about three tries to get delivery controller to find the destination airport (though it is in Boston Center's airspace). Get clearance. It is basically "fly west to Buffalo, then come back." What?!! Ask if it's correct what he had read me, he starts to get annoyed. Remind that usually get pretty much BOS-MHT (which you never actually get to) - ALB-Home Base. Gets more annoyed, asks if I want the clearance or not.

I reject the clearance since there isn't fuel on board to fly ~450nm for a <200nm flight, so feels to me can't legally accept it even though I know it's going to be immediately fixed in the air. I get put in a penalty box for about 30 minutes, with controller refusing any further requests including the bail-out VFR departure. About 30 minutes later get the usual correct clearance. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.
 
Steamflyer said:
As far as flying over water, Cessna typically sold the most SEL aircraft in the Great Lakes region for obvious reasons. That's the market speaking.

As far as "can I accept this clearance" here's one (true) from the past.

On the ground at KBOS, request to pick up a clearance to an airport a little west of KALB. A little less than 200 nm flight. Fuel is loaded and planned for this flight.

Takes about three tries to get delivery controller to find the destination airport (though it is in Boston Center's airspace). Get clearance. It is basically "fly west to Buffalo, then come back." What?!! Ask if it's correct what he had read me, he starts to get annoyed. Remind that usually get pretty much BOS-MHT (which you never actually get to) - ALB-Home Base. Gets more annoyed, asks if I want the clearance or not.

I reject the clearance since there isn't fuel on board to fly ~450nm for a <200nm flight, so feels to me can't legally accept it even though I know it's going to be immediately fixed in the air. I get put in a penalty box for about 30 minutes, with controller refusing any further requests including the bail-out VFR departure. About 30 minutes later get the usual correct clearance. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.
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This is actually crazy haha. I’ve heard of bad routing but that’s on a whole different level
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
Not many places along the Chicago shoreline where you could put an airplane down safely, even if you're within gliding distance.
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Yep, I was still on Gary's tower frequency once and heard a Legend Cub go down in the lake killing one of the two on board.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Two days later, you get a call from the FAA. No, they are not challenging your emergency declaration. They are asking about whether to took off with an unairworthy aircraft.

Of course, since your engine was running rough, you had a mechanic check it out before you left again, right?
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Similar with a rough engine starting very soon after takeoff. Although I did not actually declare an emergency, I did tell departure I had a rough engine and I thought I could make it back. I received priority for immediate landing on any runway and another aircraft holding for takeoff was delayed.
I did get a call from the FSDO maybe 2 days later. We discussed this in length and it really was a great conversation.
It was an actual rough engine so it really was being looked at by an airplane mechanic before it was going back up in the air.
 
Penguinforce said:
Specifically, what's the "right" thing to say to ATC in this instance?
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Monday I heard a pilot trying to get around the S. end of Lake MI say to ATC: "I don't want to fly over the water" It must have been well understood as there was no follow up "say again?"
 
Mongoose Aviator said:
Similar with a rough engine starting very soon after takeoff. Although I did not actually declare an emergency, I did tell departure I had a rough engine and I thought I could make it back. I received priority for immediate landing on any runway and another aircraft holding for takeoff was delayed.
I did get a call from the FSDO maybe 2 days later. We discussed this in length and it really was a great conversation.
It was an actual rough engine so it really was being looked at by an airplane mechanic before it was going back up in the air.
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Very interesting. Had a similar thing happen a few months ago - plane coming out of avionics upgrade. My partner was flying with the avionics installer in the right seat. They had some issue with the trim - it was under control, not runaway or anything like that - alerted the tower that they wanted to come back. They did not declare an emergency, but it seems like the tower did - they rolled the trucks, my partner arrived back uneventfully with fire trucks sitting at the ready. FSDO called a few months later to "investigate" which was about a 10 minute conversation basically to just clarify what happened/what we did/how we resolved it. They were professional, no issues and told us more than once they "just wanted to close the file."

Must have been a slow day for the tower controller ....
 
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