If you want to be a Pro Pilot, what times are important?

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
I was asked an aviation question I didn't know the answer for, so I'm consulting the PoA gallery...

For someone working toward a professional pilot position (121 or 135), besides PIC, XC, and Total Time, what other types of time are important to be building? Which ones are future employers looking at?
 
135 and 121 specify minimum requirements, employers specify their desired requirements, so it's a question with variable answers. Some corporate operators like experience in the make and model aircraft they fly and/or a type rating in it.
 
With demand being what it is, the entry level employers are pretty much just looking for the minimum legally required to fly their airplanes - ATP mins for regionals, 135 mins for low end 135 gigs, and so on.

For the better jobs, it's going to be dependent on the operation.
 
It depends.

Ultimately if you're going 121 then what matters most is total time. They're desperate enough now that so long as you meet mins you'll get a seat in one of them.

For corporate or 135, you're more likely going to need more time that's actually relevant. Multi time, good XC time (not just flying 50 nm to your favorite hamburger joint), cabin class twins if possible...
 
Not all professional pilots fly 135 or 121, there are lots of companies flying only part 91.
 
champ driver said:
Not all professional pilots fly 135 or 121, there are lots of companies flying only part 91.
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True. And in reality the 91 and 135 operators are probably more likely to be more picky about your background than the 121.
 
I found that it was multi PIC. After that, time in type. But that was a long time ago. I have no clue what they look for now. All I know is that it seems a lot easier to get a job.
 
Do I understand correctly that ATP is issued for a class and category? I presume then that a multi ATP would be valued a lot more than ASEL.

So when you're talking about time for a multi ATP, 500 XC, 100 night, 75 actual/sim IFR, etc, do these also need to be multi? I'm reading yes, 61.159.
 
Make SURE you get all your signoffs correctly. Don't take a checkride or get a rating without the proper signoffs. The airlines check that and need it. If a pilot gets into an accident, the lawyers will scruitinize the pilots logbook for mistakes. So the airlines check to make sure they are not hiring someone with faulty logbooks.
 
bflynn said:
Do I understand correctly that ATP is issued for a class and category? I presume then that a multi ATP would be valued a lot more than ASEL.
Click to expand...

Correct.

So when you're talking about time for a multi ATP, 500 XC, 100 night, 75 actual/sim IFR, etc, do these also need to be multi? I'm reading yes, 61.159.
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Only the 50 hours in class has to be in a multi. The rest either don't specify (meaning it can be in any kind of aircraft), or specify "airplane", meaning single or multi.
 
Typical Part 135 helo if you’re interested:

MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS
• Current FAA commercial certificate with rotorcraft
• Helicopter instrument rating
• Current FAA Class II medical certificate
• Prefer Bell 407 or Eurocopter EC135 experience
• 2000 total helicopter flight hours
• 1000 PIC in helicopters
• 1000 turbine flight hours
• 200 helicopter night-flight hours (can be combined unaided and aided)
• 50 hours IFR (simulated in aircraft and/or actual in aircraft)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
True. And in reality the 91 and 135 operators are probably more likely to be more picky about your background than the 121.
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Not so sure about the background thing for 121. The majors still have plenty of applicants compared to the regionals. They can afford to be pickier. I know my airline wants 1000 turbine pic as a minimum.
 
Busflyer said:
Not so sure about the background thing for 121. The majors still have plenty of applicants compared to the regionals. They can afford to be pickier. I know my airline wants 1000 turbine pic as a minimum.
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Is your airline a major or a regional? I was referring to the regionals (I should have clarified), since pilots typically start at the regionals and then go major. I know some pilots go straight to a major, but not without some sort of other significant flying experience beforehand.
 
For 121 regionals, all you need is ATP mins. People are getting on with legacies and majors without any Jet PIC time also. Seems like they are more interested in you as a person and not about flight time. Everyone can fly a jet because all of their applicants have an ATP and the hiring people know it.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Is your airline a major or a regional? I was referring to the regionals (I should have clarified), since pilots typically start at the regionals and then go major. I know some pilots go straight to a major, but not without some sort of other significant flying experience beforehand.
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Gotcha. I guess I didn’t read it that way. And my airline is a major.
 
Busflyer said:
Gotcha. I guess I didn’t read it that way. And my airline is a major.
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In that case I would agree that you couldn't just get in with minimum time. :)
 
CALENDAR TIME!
Go from 0 to your first job as fast as you can while building quality/smart hours, no reason most of these hours can't be cross country and night ether.

RE PAYMENT TIME!
The least amount of time it will require you to be debt free the better.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Make SURE you get all your signoffs correctly. Don't take a checkride or get a rating without the proper signoffs. The airlines check that and need it. If a pilot gets into an accident, the lawyers will scruitinize the pilots logbook for mistakes. So the airlines check to make sure they are not hiring someone with faulty logbooks.
Click to expand...
What's a proper signoff? Isn't the new cert good enough?
 
First of all I don’t think there is a pilot shortage. It’s just been so long since there was any career progression it looks amazing now. Really it’s just normal hiring. Legacy airlines are still very competitive. Regional airlines are hiring at minimums which isn’t an industry first by any means. Many corporate and good 135 jobs still require experience in type to get in the door. Entry level 91 and 135 are less picky.
 
paflyer said:
What's a proper signoff? Isn't the new cert good enough?
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Not if lawyers are involved. Seriously though. No. Endorsements and such are buggered all the time by CFIs who try to wing it instead of writing exactly what’s in the regs.

One of our local DPEs is a stickler about it, and that’s actually a good thing. He’ll beat proper endorsements into local CFIs if it kills him. He’s even written an endorsement book gathering them all into a useful order, and including things like the TSA endorsement that come from different places.
 
denverpilot said:
Not if lawyers are involved. Seriously though. No. Endorsements and such are buggered all the time by CFIs who try to wing it instead of writing exactly what’s in the regs.

One of our local DPEs is a stickler about it, and that’s actually a good thing. He’ll beat proper endorsements into local CFIs if it kills him. He’s even written an endorsement book gathering them all into a useful order, and including things like the TSA endorsement that come from different places.
Click to expand...

With smartphones it's easy enough to just keep that FAA endorsement AC on your phone, I'm not too worried about not wording it verbatim and I'm sure I could wing it enough to make it past the FAA or lawyer, but with how easy it is to keep the template on my phone in my pocket, easier to just use the AC.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_61-65G.pdf
 
Since you're paying the same cost per hour for flying in clear, day VMC to go get a burger as you would to fly IFR, in the system from point A to point B at night and if you can find it, actual IMC, you might as well fly the later.

The biggest issue that I see is a lack of real world IFR experience. Grab a hood and a safety pilot and go fly somewhere.
 
Recently retired after 40 years of airline flying. My company is hiring BUT to be competitive you will need International Heavy time and PIC in jets. There are exceptions but generally the times I was seeing were in the 5000K hours and up.
Also the Hogan personality test gets 65 % of the people before the first interview. Luckily all of that jumbo mumbo came about long after I was hired or I would have never been there. I understand that there are places where you can prep for it or do like I told a couple of guys...have your girlfriend or wife take it for you...seriously.
I was an interviewer for an airline for a while and what johnnyjetprop said about a lack of real world IFR experience is true. Don’t show me a logbook with 3000 TT and a 1000 actual IFR and you live in Texas or Florida. No way that happens if your honest about what constitutes IFR.
Right place at the right time and the right personality with the right people makes it a lot easier.
 
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