If you are a Honda engineer,

or generator?
 
2010 Honda Odessey. Wife gets up and leaves the house at 7:30a to have breakfast with a friend. I’m warm in bed, doggie tucked under my arm. I hear her open the garage door, start up, and leave. It sounded like it had an 8-71 roots blower in it. Oh well, lazy Saturday. Back to sleep. She calls 10 minutes later. Car died. Electrical goofy stuff a few seconds before. Fine, probably alternator. I pick her and her friend up and take them to get my daughter’s car which we’re storing at the hangar for a couple months while she’s overseas.

Drive home, grab tools, scan tool, jumper cables, voltmeter. Drive to the van. First check batt volts. 12.48. Good enough. Start it. Runs ok for 15 seconds then rough, as I check batt volts 7.8, then dies. Yup, alt. Call tow truck. $45. Van is taken to the house.

It took me more effort, cuts, bruises, sore back, and cussing to remove the freed alternator from the tight confines than it did to completely free it. Mind you, harnesses, power steering reservoir, washer reservoir, and hoses had to either be removed or pushed tied back. Still the friggen timing cover, tensioner, frame, and A/C tubing and hose were all in such a configuration that the alternator had to be in an exact 3-dimensional orientation to pass through, both coming and going. Dropped and lost a bolt into the abyss, gone forever. Did the same with the power steering reservoir cap (I’ll find one on Amazon).

I’ve replaced a timing belt on a 2009 and it was truly easy and fun. Maybe too much caffeine, not enough sleep (5 hrs), and nice flying weather. 8 hours later, van is running again. $344 for an alternator at Autozone. Inflation.

Lately I’ve paid people to work on my cars. I’m getting to old and impatient. But with whatever the Econ is doing, finding a shop to take it and turn it around in 1 day and on a weekend ain’t happening. A friend is looking at a similar repair 1 week out.

I was livid at the ridiculousness of maintenance on these cars. A friend asked me last year to help replace an alternator on their Toyota minivan. Something about removing the radiator first. Told him to take it somewhere, screw that noise.

The genius who installed the alternator on my IO-470 in my 182 put the alternator pivot bolt facing backwards - hex towards the firewall and nut forward. When the alternator has to come off for service, Controller.com
 
You know the 2010ish Mazda 3s if you want to change the head light bulb, either you have small hands, find someone with small hands who don't mind getting dirty to cuts, or you take off the bumper. And the cabin air filter requires you to drop the glove box or something like that.

It's just how they "package" the cars these days without thought about repairs or maintenance.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
2010 Honda Odessey. Wife gets up and leaves the house at 7:30a to have breakfast with a friend. I’m warm in bed, doggie tucked under my arm. I hear her open the garage door, start up, and leave. It sounded like it had an 8-71 roots blower in it. Oh well, lazy Saturday. Back to sleep. She calls 10 minutes later. Car died. Electrical goofy stuff a few seconds before. Fine, probably alternator. I pick her and her friend up and take them to get my daughter’s car which we’re storing at the hangar for a couple months while she’s overseas.

Drive home, grab tools, scan tool, jumper cables, voltmeter. Drive to the van. First check batt volts. 12.48. Good enough. Start it. Runs ok for 15 seconds then rough, as I check batt volts 7.8, then dies. Yup, alt. Call tow truck. $45. Van is taken to the house.

It took me more effort, cuts, bruises, sore back, and cussing to remove the freed alternator from the tight confines than it did to completely free it. Mind you, harnesses, power steering reservoir, washer reservoir, and hoses had to either be removed or pushed tied back. Still the friggen timing cover, tensioner, frame, and A/C tubing and hose were all in such a configuration that the alternator had to be in an exact 3-dimensional orientation to pass through, both coming and going. Dropped and lost a bolt into the abyss, gone forever. Did the same with the power steering reservoir cap (I’ll find one on Amazon).

I’ve replaced a timing belt on a 2009 and it was truly easy and fun. Maybe too much caffeine, not enough sleep (5 hrs), and nice flying weather. 8 hours later, van is running again. $344 for an alternator at Autozone. Inflation.

Lately I’ve paid people to work on my cars. I’m getting to old and impatient. But with whatever the Econ is doing, finding a shop to take it and turn it around in 1 day and on a weekend ain’t happening. A friend is looking at a similar repair 1 week out.

I was livid at the ridiculousness of maintenance on these cars. A friend asked me last year to help replace an alternator on their Toyota minivan. Something about removing the radiator first. Told him to take it somewhere, screw that noise.

The genius who installed the alternator on my IO-470 in my 182 put the alternator pivot bolt facing backwards - hex towards the firewall and nut forward. When the alternator has to come off for service, Controller.com
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Oh. That. Allow me to expand on your original post. If your an any car manufactured since say about 1990 or so engineer, f*** you.
 
SebIp said:
You know the 2010ish Mazda 3s if you want to change the head light bulb, either you have small hands, find someone with small hands who don't mind getting dirty to cuts, or you take off the bumper.
Click to expand...
That’s what you get for not buying the HID/LED upgrade. :D
SebIp said:
And the cabin air filter requires you to drop the glove box or something like that.
Click to expand...
  1. Open glove box
  2. Squeeze sides of glove box
  3. Open glove box further
Takes 5 seconds to “drop” it and another 5 to raise it back in place.
 
Mxfarm said:
thank you 3d modeling cad software
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That's exactly how that sh*t happens. Learned that when the first cad systems came out in the early 80's. Air conditioner duct eventually had to be sacrificed for a missile control box on an armed helicopter.
 
Piperonca said:
That's exactly how that sh*t happens. Learned that when the first cad systems came out in the early 80's. Air conditioner duct eventually had to be sacrificed for a missile control box on an armed helicopter.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you put on the wrong missiles. Doesn't a sidewinder only require something like 4 wires? power, lock tone back, and fire?
 
Albany Tom said:
It sounds like you put on the wrong missiles. Doesn't a sidewinder only require something like 4 wires? power, lock tone back, and fire?
Click to expand...
Hellfire. Marine AH-1J/T front seat. That panel and the space behind it was very crowded.
 
It's all about minivans, mang. Honda takes care of its motorcycle racers and F1 drivers. They put soccer moms in the back seat.
 
I enjoy the 2" extra legroom without having to park a battleship to pay for it. Your skinned knuckles did not die in vain. They were in service of not giving me the Jimmy Legs. :D
 
asicer said:
That’s what you get for not buying the HID/LED upgrade. :D

  1. Open glove box
  2. Squeeze sides of glove box
  3. Open glove box further
Takes 5 seconds to “drop” it and another 5 to raise it back in place.
Click to expand...

Actually, I had the Mazdaspeed 3 which has everything except the moonroof. I kinds miss the HID that turns with you, and the stick and the ability to go way too far around a corner. Ah well, wife’s happier in the Accord.

And I just looked up the air filter. Now I remember, not the glove box. If you can fit yourself under it and see well enough etc to get at it. Clearly, everyone at Mazda is a contortionist.
 
SebIp said:
Actually, I had the Mazdaspeed 3 which has everything except the moonroof. I kinds miss the HID that turns with you, and the stick and the ability to go way too far around a corner. Ah well, wife’s happier in the Accord.

And I just looked up the air filter. Now I remember, not the glove box. If you can fit yourself under it and see well enough etc to get at it. Clearly, everyone at Mazda is a contortionist.
Click to expand...

just good training for working under the panel of a small airplane. I just absolutely LOVED changing the p-lead on my cherokee 140.
 
Car companies don't care about ease of maintenance and why would they? That alternator will likely get replaced only once in the life of the car. Are they really going to redesign the entire engine compartment just to make the job quicker for something that isn't very often replaced? Why do that when shop time is billed hourly? The consumer will spend more and the company will make more profit on a difficult maintenance job . Very few if any people are going to base their car buying decisions on how east an alternator is to replace. Again, there is no advantage for the car company to make non regular maintenance easy or cheap.
 
schmookeeg said:
I enjoy the 2" extra legroom without having to park a battleship to pay for it. Your skinned knuckles did not die in vain. They were in service of not giving me the Jimmy Legs. :D
Click to expand...

True - but if all you want to use is a hammer - everything is treated like a nail. There’s no judgement.

kmacht said:
Car companies don't care about ease of maintenance and why would they? That alternator will likely get replaced only once in the life of the car. Are they really going to redesign the entire engine compartment just to make the job quicker for something that isn't very often replaced? Why do that when shop time is billed hourly? The consumer will spend more and the company will make more profit on a difficult maintenance job . Very few if any people are going to base their car buying decisions on how east an alternator is to replace. Again, there is no advantage for the car company to make non regular maintenance easy or cheap.
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What has been been bantered about is it’s all about speed in assembly... yea, maybe, my last Super Duty, the book called for pulling the cab to change the serpentine belt, which is a consumable, in my book.
 
Pet peeve…

On both our 2011 For Flex and our 2018 Honda Clarity, the under engine shield must be removed for an oil change. That’s not the peeve.

The peeve is that while the Flex uses 1/4 turn DZUS fasteners you can reach under and turn by hand, the Honda engineers just gave us Phillips head screws in the same application. To add insult to injury, they’re not even captive, so getting them threaded with one hand while supporting the shield with the other is unnecessarily difficult. Maybe not on a lift, but definitely so working under the car by yourself, even on ramps.

Overall, Honda’s seem quite durable, so crap like this is not a deal breaker, simply annoying.
 
I feel ya. When I find the engineer who designed the coil bracket for a 99 Suburban... well, it’s probably back to jail for me...

So there my DAD was...

At a Winnebago rally. Bleck. What he learned is amazing. After engineering designs ANYTHING, off to the MAINTENANCE department it goes for APPROVAL. Brilliant!

Disclaimer, never owned one, this is hearsay... but intriguing! If so, they need to expand into EVERYTHING!
 
Would this make your troubles seem.minor?
 

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Starter in valley its the only one i have ever seen done this way a 4.7 liter v8 toyota engine in a fj100 land cruiser. I have changed one. Remembering where everything went was the hardest part even had some hardware left over…..
 
And hey, this is PILOTS of America... let’s keep it relevant.

one word

Mooney!
 
Nobody (yes, an exaggeration) buys a car based on perceived ease of self maintenance. The manufacturers build cars that check the style, performance, and comfort boxes in the showroom and which *can* be maintained. Those difficult to access bits? That just adds a few more .1 hours to the time the shop gets to charge you. While the maintenance departments at dealerships or wherever don't like difficult tasks, they do appreciate the extra billable time.
 
I’m calmer now.

Before I came in for a break and posted on POA, that sentiment was for the engineer’s mother, wife, and daughter, but I thought it a little too over the top.

I apologize to the engineers this morning. That alternator lasted 217k miles. Now the timing belt on this engines, that is stupid (even though it was more fun and predictable, albeit lengthy).
 
kmacht said:
Car companies don't care about ease of maintenance and why would they? That alternator will likely get replaced only once in the life of the car. Are they really going to redesign the entire engine compartment just to make the job quicker for something that isn't very often replaced? Why do that when shop time is billed hourly? The consumer will spend more and the company will make more profit on a difficult maintenance job . Very few if any people are going to base their car buying decisions on how east an alternator is to replace. Again, there is no advantage for the car company to make non regular maintenance easy or cheap.
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Alternator, no.

Lights, batteries, and oil. Yeah. Those will all impact my willingness to buy a car. Anything that’s replaced semi-regularly needs to be easy to access.
 
skier said:
Alternator, no.

Lights, batteries, and oil. Yeah. Those will all impact my willingness to buy a car. Anything that’s replaced semi-regularly needs to be easy to access.
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We bought my wife a 2016 Escape. I can see the oil filter, but I have no idea how to remove it. Changing the battery took me two hours.

When I went to look at my 2004 Escape before buying it, the first thing I did was find the oil filter, and crawl under the car to see if I could get at it. But when the alternator went out, I’m glad I was 500 miles from home…that looked like a ****ty job.
 
I agree that the manufacturers don't pay much attention to easy of repair. But I do think they spend some effort reducing effort or mistakes around "routine maintenance". To that end, the windshield filler cap is usually clearly marked with an icon these days, and probably oil, too. I don't know if they do that to make things easier for their customers, or to reduce the number of times some yahoo fills up the washer tank with oil or vice versa. What's different here is that most pilots are WAY more mechanically inclined than the average Joe. It's a small percentage of the market that does their own parts swapping these days.

I do find it annoying when I can't change a light bulb, though.
 
Notrub said:
Starter in valley its the only one i have ever seen done this way a 4.7 liter v8 toyota engine in a fj100 land cruiser. I have changed one. Remembering where everything went was the hardest part even had some hardware left over…..
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Probably the most common engine with a starter in the valley is the Northstar V8 that got used in a ton of Cadillacs and a few Oldsmobiles. I think the shortstar v6 might have the same starter setup as well.
 
For those who want a challenge, try doing just about any accessory work on a Lycoming in a PA46. A few scratches replacing an alternator on a car will seem like child’s play.
 
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