IF domestic travel is restricted...

cowman said:
My prediction would be after a month of this most people are going to be back to business as usual and the media will move on to the next crisis.
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I agree... this thing won't go away in 2-3 weeks.. so these temporary school and business closures aren't going to do anything. Eventually people will get tired of the 24/7 CORONA-IN-YOUR-FACE nonsense and move on. They'll start going out again, socializing, etc., and yes, some will get sick.. most won't.. a handful will die. Every time someone dies of aides / cancer / heart disease / car accident / overdose / etc., it is not making the news

The gov response was pathetic. People panicked, the economy fell in the trash, and given that this has a 14 day incubation time all the changes that were enacted were done 2 weeks too late. So at this point we're screwed, might as well go back to life as usual

This dashboard: https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 puts things into a good perspective
..look at the confirmed / the recovered / the deceased. How many people have died from non Corona / non natural causes since December.. a *lot* more than 6K

PS, my only issue with this dashboard are the visualization of the big red circles..the scale makes this seem much worse than it actually is. The entire US and Europe is NOT infected.. and with a world population of 7.7 Billion people the 163K is basically nothing
upload_2020-3-15_14-44-38.png
 
bobmrg said:
Watch what is happening overseas...shutting down theaters, restaurants, bars, anywhere people congregate....and it is working (except in Italy, which got a late start). I think that Americans are going to have to give up some of the freedoms we cherish for a brief period of time until we get past this.
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European countries are much more willing to accept what their government tells them, and they tend to have a more socialist/communist mindset. Measures like that will be hard for many in the US to stomach. Is it really worth the economic and freedom impact though? How about just educating people on good hygiene, and what this actually is? There are so many other things that are so much more deadly to the human race that we don't care about.. pollution, climate change, high poverty, economic disparity, etc. But THIS, this is what's going to bring the world to a halt? A flue that's slightly more fatal among the elderly and sick?

It's bonkers.
 
^I'm also dubious of the stats on here... how is Africa and Russia apparently immune to this?
 
midwestpa24 said:
We were under martial law after Katrina
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Yep! People give you a funny look when the words Martial Law are mentioned, but it’s not that far of a stretch. It’s legal and it can happen.

Lindberg said:
Why martial law?
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Because it’s a viable option that could be exercised in a pandemic like this.
 
midwestpa24 said:
We were under martial law after Katrina. It can happen. Biggest things that were part of that:

Ammo and alcohol sales were banned.
Army and National Guard given police powers, mainly because local law enforcement was non-existent.
Regular night time curfews.
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And after Katrina Congress passed (and the President signed) a law that says that local governments cannot do this.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
I don’t think it’s ending, I think it’s building.

https://apple.news/A5SatTuYhRUGo18UXwjIP5A
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Doesn't look like hysteria to me in that article. If you're "An American in Paris" (apologies to Gershwin :)) it's probably prudent to get yourself home. The article shows yet another inept handling of the border by an Administration that's become world famous for doing that.

Hysteria is when nitwits are fighting over the last remaining package of toilet paper at Costco. We're past that phase now (thankfully).
 
GRG55 said:
People are starting to understand the simple precautions they should take to reduce the risk to themselves and their families (none of which involve toilet paper).
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Are you sure? ;)

IMG_1455.jpg
 
Ghery said:
And after Katrina Congress passed (and the President signed) a law that says that local governments cannot do this.
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Care to elaborate? Are you saying martial law can't be implemented if necessary? I don't think it was the local governments that did it then either?
 
Ryanb said:
Because it’s a viable option that could be exercised in a pandemic like this.
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No. There is no lapse of civil government or the court system, or any indication there's even a risk of that, as would be required for martial law. Deployment of the National Guard to aid civilian police forces, as after Hurricane Katrina, is not equivalent to martial law.
 
Half Fast said:
I think he’s referring to 42 US Code 5207 regarding firearms confiscation:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/5207

Many states have similar state laws.
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There was no confiscation where we were after Katrina. They just restricted ammo sales. There were some stories out of New Orleans of cops and authorities seizing weapons.

Lindberg said:
There was never martial law after Katrina.
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I was there, and there was. As I outlined previously.
 
Lindberg said:
There was never martial law after Katrina.
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True.

I might be mistaken, but I believe the US can only implement martial law in instances of a foreign invasion or an armed rebellion, like the War of Northern Aggression.
 
Since this is a pilot forum, this NOTAM was just issued for Norwegian airspace. Reasoning given in the press release is limited staffing for ATC.


COVID-19 VFR AND SCHOOL FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS IN NORWAY.ACCORDING TO A NEW TEMPORARY NATIONAL REGULATION PROMULGATED 14.03.2020 BY THE NORWEGIAN CAA,15 A RESTRICTED AREA HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED IN ALL NORWEGIAN AIRSPACE ( NORWAY FIR ). ALL FLIGHTS ACCORDING TO VISUAL FLIGHT RULES ( VFR ) IN NORWEGIAN AIRSPACE ARE PROHIBITED UNLESS PRE-APPROVED BY AVINOR ANS.ALL SCHOOL FLIGHTS IN NORWEGIAN AIRSPACE ARE PROHIBITED UNLESS PRE-APPROVED BY AVINOR ANS.REQUESTS FOR PRE-APPROVAL OF FLIGHTS MUST BE FORWARDED TO OPERATIVSTOTTE.NACC ( AT ) AVINOR.NO,NO LATER THAN 1H PRIOR TO PLANNED DEPARTURE.THESE RESTRICTIONS DO NOT APPLY TO MILITARY,POLICE,AMBULANCE AND SAR FLIGHTS.OBSERVATION FLIGHTS CONDUCTED UNDER THE TREATY ON OPEN SKIES ARE ALSO EXEMPTED.PRE-APPROVAL WILL NORMALLY NOT BE GIVEN UNLESS THE FLIGHT HAS A SPECIAL SOCIETAL USEFULNESS.
 
midwestpa24 said:
There was no confiscation where we were after Katrina. They just restricted ammo sales. There were some stories out of New Orleans of cops and authorities seizing weapons.
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If the cops were doing it, it wasn’t martial law. Martial law is when the military takes over the civil authority.
 
GRG55 said:
Hysteria is when nitwits are fighting over the last remaining package of toilet paper at Costco. We're past that phase now (thankfully).
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Really? Only because there is no toilet paper available. Wait until they restock.
 
GRG55 said:
Doesn't look like hysteria to me in that article. If you're "An American in Paris" (apologies to Gershwin :)) it's probably prudent to get yourself home. The article shows yet another inept handling of the border by an Administration that's become world famous for doing that.

Hysteria is when nitwits are fighting over the last remaining package of toilet paper at Costco. We're past that phase now (thankfully).
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All the babble about “inept handling” at customs is garbage. If you tell every American in Europe they should all attempt to come home at once, there’s no magic queue of stallion pony customs agents sitting around awaiting a mass flood of humans at every international airport.

There’s going to be... lines.

About the best you could do is lock people in individual aircraft and empty them one at a time, and that wouldn’t work. You’d have a panic and a stampede the second anyone had a cough.

The whining about the ”mishandling” at customs is just people bitching about what they knew would happen if they thought about it for one solid minute. Of course there was a big line. Duhhhhh.

And asking customs agents to do medical screening in every inbound city? I’ll try not to laugh too hard at that one. Wouldn’t happen under any administration. Tell some thirty year customs manager he’s going to equip and train his staff at thirty airports in two days... right. Ain’t happening.

Call out every State’s Guard? Truckloads of 18-22 year olds with rifles and no PPG or training? Sure. There’s your deep well of bodies to do stuff. Useless on this scale. At least the ones government can order to go somewhere.

Staying home is just an exercise in slowing it. Not stopping it. It’s going to get most of us, and kill some of us.

I’m currently forced to sleep in a hotel, eat from restaurants and take out, and have minor surgery at a building full of sick people - because my other medical condition is worse than the virus. I’m also immunosuppressed. I’ll either get it, or not, and die or not. Oh well.

Lots of folks felt they needed to go through overcrowded airports to come home. They knew they’d be in tubes of stale possibly infected air for half a day and standing in big lines. There’s no other possible way that plays out.

No magic commando force of customs trained doctors is headed to every major international airport. Nor is every case on board going to be known or caught with numerous days of no symptoms.
 
topgun260 said:
The problem is that when vaccines are first made available to the public they are not always that great. Vaccines take time to tweak and test on humans. There are already those who are saying that 1 year probably isn't realistic for a vaccine in this case. Anyone remember or know someone who got Polio from the Polio Vaccine? It happened. It was a reality for many of the elderly when they were growing up.
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Shingles is another improved vaccine. I got the original shingles shot a few years ago. Had my annual checkup in Jan, Dr said I really need to get the new 2-shot one. The original was 30-40% effective, according to him. The new one is 80% effective. Convinced me!
 
bobmrg said:
Watch what is happening overseas...shutting down theaters, restaurants, bars, anywhere people congregate....and it is working (except in Italy, which got a late start). I think that Americans are going to have to give up some of the freedoms we cherish for a brief period of time until we get past this.

Bob Gardner
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Gov of Illinois just laid down the edict - restaurants and bars to close. He said persuasion didn't work when he asked people to limit attendance at bars and such.
 
denverpilot said:
All the babble about “inept handling” at customs is garbage. If you tell every American in Europe they should all attempt to come home at once, there’s no magic queue of stallion pony customs agents sitting around awaiting a mass flood of humans at every international airport.

There’s going to be... lines...
Click to expand...

Total air capacity between Continental Europe and the USA is DOWN. "Every American in Europe" cannot come home all at once. There's only so many seats, and that number is lower today than it was just a week or two ago due to numerous flight cancellations.

Tell me again, the "lines" aren't the result of yet another impulsive edict from this Administration.
I'm not an anti-Trumper, but this is incompetent execution, plain and simple.
 
Lindberg said:
Were you subject to the orders of a military general rather than government authorities? Arrested and taken before a military court? Was the civil government suspended?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law_in_the_United_States
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Umm no...that’s very extreme and those things don’t have to occur under Martial Law.

Under the declaration of martial law, constitutional freedoms and liberties are suspended, and civilians are no longer entitled to their civil rights. It basically allows the government to stop our Constitutional rights and impose their will on the people. Military action CAN be used, but it doesn’t have to be for it to be considered Martial Law.
 
GRG55 said:
Doesn't look like hysteria to me in that article. If you're "An American in Paris" (apologies to Gershwin :)) it's probably prudent to get yourself home. The article shows yet another inept handling of the border by an Administration that's become world famous for doing that.

Hysteria is when nitwits are fighting over the last remaining package of toilet paper at Costco. We're past that phase now (thankfully).
Click to expand...

Let's keep your clearly poorly thought out political opinions out of this so the thread can stay open...........
 
California just closed bars, breweries, pubs, wine bars and called for restaurants to reduce their occupancy by half.

Hang on tight folks...
 
Ryanb said:
Umm no...that’s very extreme and those things don’t have to occur under Martial Law.

Under the declaration of martial law, constitutional freedoms and liberties are suspended, and civilians are no longer entitled to their civil rights. It basically allows the government to stop our Constitutional rights and impose their will on the people. Military action CAN be used, but it doesn’t have to be for it to be considered Martial Law.
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So habeus corpus was suspended after Katrina? Where?
 
GRG55 said:
Total air capacity between Continental Europe and the USA is DOWN. "Every American in Europe" cannot come home all at once. There's only so many seats, and that number is lower today than it was just a week or two ago due to numerous flight cancellations.

Tell me again, the "lines" aren't the result of yet another impulsive edict from this Administration.
I'm not an anti-Trumper, but this is incompetent execution, plain and simple.
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And there aren’t long lines at Customs in major cities every day... and nobody took inbound flights at odd times just to get on one... and...

Incompetent execution is probably...

“I’m not on the schedule and I’m sure as hell not working my usual overtime.” - Random Customs guy.

What are you going to do? Mandate they go to work? They’ll happily flip you off from home.

Everybody thinks there’s some special pool of super humans that government will magically call upon in disasters and stuff like this. There’s not, and never is.

And unlike most disasters, you feel you get to tell the next door neighbor who works for stuff like Customs and TSA everybody else should stay home, but they should go hang with the most likely to be infected? LOL. Right.

They’ll show up just long enough not to get fired. “Cough cough, I feel kinda sick boss...” for what they get paid... lots will ghost and say they stayed home with symptoms.

Execs and politicians can order staff to do whatever they want. Doesn’t mean they’re going to get it.
 
Shawn said:
California just closed bars, breweries, pubs, wine bars and called for restaurants to reduce their occupancy by half.

Hang on tight folks...
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AMC and Regal movie theaters are planning to reduce occupancy and limit to every other row seating.
 
Lindberg said:
So habeus corpus was suspended after Katrina? Where?
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Habeus Corpus can be suspended when the safety of the public requires it. I’m not sure what you’re trying to argue here.
 
Lindberg said:
Were you subject to the orders of a military general rather than government authorities? Arrested and taken before a military court? Was the civil government suspended?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law_in_the_United_States
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Yes, no, and yes to an extent

South Mississippi was under the US Army, not national guard. They replaced local officials and law enforcement because all of the locals were busy helping their own families. We had active duty soldiers on patrol even in the rural areas. I sat and talked with a Humvee full of armed soldiers patrolling our rural dead end road. They were given law enforcement authority. Any stores that were open were required to pull all alcohol and ammo off the shelves. This lasted for weeks until some sense of normalcy returned and basic services were restored.

Was I arrested? No, I wasn't doing anything wrong. That's a dumb question. To say there was no martial law because I wasn't in court is a straw man argument.
 
Lindberg said:
That martial law was not imposed after Katrina.
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I never said there was. :)

I was agreeing with that poster that Martial Law is a viable option in a crisis like this.
 
topgun260 said:
Anyone remember or know someone who got Polio from the Polio Vaccine? It happened. It was a reality for many of the elderly when they were growing up.
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Reference?
 
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