IF domestic travel is restricted...

455 Bravo Uniform

455 Bravo Uniform

Final Approach
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455 Bravo Uniform
:stirpot:

Have heard the next step might be limiting travel to/from certain states due to COVID-19. Then all out movement restrictions.

So how would that work for GA?

Locked gates or law enforcement at towered fields?
No clearance to enter or depart Class D or larger?
Non-towered fields?
Off-field ops?
ADSB off?

:popcorn:
 
They did something similar after 9/11. I don’t suppose it would be much different except being selective by state.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Then all out movement restrictions.
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So Martial Law will be reinstated in the US essentially? Banning all out movement seems extreme and I don’t see it coming down to that unless things really get ugly.
 
Ryanb said:
So Martial Law will be reinstated in the US essentially? Banning all out movement seems extreme and I don’t see it coming down to that unless things really get ugly.
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That’s pretty much the last 2 remaining steps in a 13 step pandemic response for a few states.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
That’s pretty much the last 2 remaining steps in a 13 step pandemic response for a few states.
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We’ll see, but that’s pretty draconian. Things will really have to escalate for something like that to occur imho.
 
Ryanb said:
We’ll see, but that’s pretty draconian. Things will really have to escalate for something like that to occur imho.
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I don’t really think we’re that far away. Cases will go up for now. Hysteria will build. And the conservative/safer options (in terms of “better safe than sorry”) will be next, even if it ends up being wrong.

The remaining powder is dry, but there’s not much left. Bag of tricks is nearly empty. Or whatever analogy we want to use. My point is that there’s not much else left to do from an emergency response standpoint.
 
DaleB said:
Speak for yourself. My family’s been here since the early 1700s and it’s always been small farms, plenty of kids.
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Same with my family. But some of them owned slaves.
 
Ryanb said:
So Martial Law will be reinstated in the US essentially? Banning all out movement seems extreme and I don’t see it coming down to that unless things really get ugly.
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Why martial law? There were similar restrictions after 9/11 without martial law.
 
If they limit it for GA then it will probably be like post 9/11.
 
Lindberg said:
Why martial law? There were similar restrictions after 9/11 without martial law.
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There's no reason to expect martial law. So far, the present administration has tended to do as little as possible, nearly all of the shutdowns have been undertaken at the state and local level, or by private sector businesses.
 
Maybe we’ll end up like the ‘Walking Dead’ show, better take notes.

Or maybe 4 months from now, this will all be a nasty memory?
 
FormerHangie said:
So far, the present administration has tended to do as little as possible
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Conversely, if they moved faster earlier on, everyone would say their actions were unwarranted and they were crazy for imposing restrictions so soon. Can’t please people nowadays.
 
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Just some thoughts and references

1) Tom Clancy, "Executive Orders"
2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_United_States_law#Restrictions

The entire article is fascinating but these two clauses are most enlightening (relevant?)

a) "Current US Code addresses air travel specifically. In 49 U.S.C. § 40103, "Sovereignty and use of airspace", the Code specifies that "A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace."

b) 'The U.S. Supreme Court also dealt with the right to travel in the case of Saenz v. Roe, 526 U.S. 489 (1999). In that case, Justice John Paul Stevens, writing for the majority, held that the United States Constitution protected three separate aspects of the right to travel among the states:
(1) the right to enter one state and leave another (an inherent right with historical support from the Articles of Confederation),
(2) the right to be treated as a welcome visitor rather than a hostile stranger (protected by the "Privileges and Immunities" clause in Article IV, § 2)
(3) (for those who become permanent residents of a state) the right to be treated equally to native-born citizens
 
It's going to spread no matter what movement restrictions are put into place.
Last night it was in 49 states. So even if they restricted movement by county to keep the 'free' counties clean, how long would that help (none).
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
I don’t really think we’re that far away. Cases will go up for now. Hysteria will build. And the conservative/safer options (in terms of “better safe than sorry”) will be next, even if it ends up being wrong.

The remaining powder is dry, but there’s not much left. Bag of tricks is nearly empty. Or whatever analogy we want to use. My point is that there’s not much else left to do from an emergency response standpoint.
Click to expand...

The hysteria phase is ending.
Common sense will slowly reassert itself.
People are starting to understand the simple precautions they should take to reduce the risk to themselves and their families (none of which involve toilet paper).
The very significant negative economic effects are going to gradually displace the "old news" health effects in the reporting.

And it's a lot easier to lock down national borders than it is State borders.
 
Gary said:
Suspect you are correct. This will be unpleasant for a few months, but hardly a catastrophe.
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We will all know someone who dies, probably. Or one person away.

Seven degrees of separation and such. Just math.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
It's going to spread no matter what movement restrictions are put into place.
Last night it was in 49 states. So even if they restricted movement by county to keep the 'free' counties clean, how long would that help (none).
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It's not geographic spread that has me worried. It's if it blows up in NYC, LA, MIA, DC Wuhan style. Then we be screwed. So having said that, do what you think is right, but think about the other guys Granny too.
 
Well, the governor of Colorado ordered all Co ski areas to close for at least a week last night.
 
wrbix said:
Be interesting to hear from those here adamantly and repeatedly anti-influenza-vaccine when the COVID-19 vaccine becomes available.
Likely minds will change...we can only hope.
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Not likely. Or at least not universally. While there are some people who are against all vaccines, most are selective in "cost" vs benefits on each particular vaccine. Often clouded with personal biases and misinformation. Point is that if one thought that one doesn't need/want/helped by a flu vaccine before this, one is likely to think the same after even if that same person gladly takes a vaccine for this thing.

My 72+ yo dad has never had a flu shot and is against taking it based mostly(and mostly falsely) on thinking it's ineffective and will cause more problem than it solves. "I've never needed it, so I'm not starting now". Yet I'm quite sure he will take vaccine for this. And I'm reasonably sure he will still resist a flu shot.
 
wrbix said:
Be interesting to hear from those here adamantly and repeatedly anti-influenza-vaccine when the COVID-19 vaccine becomes available.
Likely minds will change...we can only hope.
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Me too... But if they find one, maybe they should blend the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine into the current flu vaccine, many lives will be saved.

In my area it's the vocal flu anti-vaxers that seem the most hyped.
 
GRG55 said:
The hysteria phase is ending.
Common sense will slowly reassert itself.
People are starting to understand the simple precautions they should take to reduce the risk to themselves and their families (none of which involve toilet paper).
The very significant negative economic effects are going to gradually displace the "old news" health effects in the reporting.

And it's a lot easier to lock down national borders than it is State borders.
Click to expand...

I don’t think it’s ending, I think it’s building.

https://apple.news/A5SatTuYhRUGo18UXwjIP5A
 
murphey said:
b) 'The U.S. Supreme Court also dealt with the right to travel in the case of Saenz v. Roe, 526 U.S. 489 (1999). In that case, Justice John Paul Stevens, writing for the majority, held that the United States Constitution protected three separate aspects of the right to travel among the states:
(1) the right to enter one state and leave another (an inherent right with historical support from the Articles of Confederation),
(2) the right to be treated as a welcome visitor rather than a hostile stranger (protected by the "Privileges and Immunities" clause in Article IV, § 2)
(3) (for those who become permanent residents of a state) the right to be treated equally to native-born citizens
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Don't let customs find out about #2 there, it'd ruin their whole "$5,000 fine" schtick.
 
We were under martial law after Katrina. It can happen. Biggest things that were part of that:

Ammo and alcohol sales were banned.
Army and National Guard given police powers, mainly because local law enforcement was non-existent.
Regular night time curfews.
 
genna said:
Not likely. Or at least not universally. While there are some people who are against all vaccines, most are selective in "cost" vs benefits on each particular vaccine. Often clouded with personal biases and misinformation. Point is that if one thought that one doesn't need/want/helped by a flu vaccine before this, one is likely to think the same after even if that same person gladly takes a vaccine for this thing.

My 72+ yo dad has never had a flu shot and is against taking it based mostly(and mostly falsely) on thinking it's ineffective and will cause more problem than it solves. "I've never needed it, so I'm not starting now". Yet I'm quite sure he will take vaccine for this. And I'm reasonably sure he will still resist a flu shot.
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Yeah, unfortunately rational arguments of proven-albeit-less-than-universal efficacy and herd immunity make no difference to the antiscience and conspiracy theory crowd.
 
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Of course I'm just speculating like everyone else but I'm surprised we've gone as far as we have. My prediction would be after a month of this most people are going to be back to business as usual and the media will move on to the next crisis.

As it is there haven't really been any restrictions on individuals, most closures of events and things have been voluntary. I think here in the US you'd have a lot of outcry if the government did more than politely ask citizens not to travel.
 
genna said:
Not likely. Or at least not universally. While there are some people who are against all vaccines, most are selective in "cost" vs benefits on each particular vaccine. Often clouded with personal biases and misinformation. Point is that if one thought that one doesn't need/want/helped by a flu vaccine before this, one is likely to think the same after even if that same person gladly takes a vaccine for this thing.

My 72+ yo dad has never had a flu shot and is against taking it based mostly(and mostly falsely) on thinking it's ineffective and will cause more problem than it solves. "I've never needed it, so I'm not starting now". Yet I'm quite sure he will take vaccine for this. And I'm reasonably sure he will still resist a flu shot.
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The problem is that when vaccines are first made available to the public they are not always that great. Vaccines take time to tweak and test on humans. There are already those who are saying that 1 year probably isn't realistic for a vaccine in this case. Anyone remember or know someone who got Polio from the Polio Vaccine? It happened. It was a reality for many of the elderly when they were growing up.
 
Watch what is happening overseas...shutting down theaters, restaurants, bars, anywhere people congregate....and it is working (except in Italy, which got a late start). I think that Americans are going to have to give up some of the freedoms we cherish for a brief period of time until we get past this.

Bob Gardner
 
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