I'm curious if there is any correlation between Lib/Con and liked having spin zone/was bothered by it?
Not really. The people who approached me IN PERSON who were lobbying for a kinder gentler PoA before it happened asking if I would "support the cause", were certainly partisan, and a particular brand of it, but it wasn't their real beef. And I'm not kidding about the off site, real world lobbying. They were looking for allies to whine to management with.
At the event I was hardest lobbied at, there was only one PoA management person within a hundred miles and they weren't approached by the lobbyists while I was around. You'll see why below...
They were actually so upset, they walked around at events asking other PoA'ers opinion of their little "movement" long before it happened. I think it simply grew legs in that it gave them something to do.
You see, most who complained the loudest both on and off the board, were simply the worst at defending their positions. They didn't post anything deeper than [insert favorite political website's editorial links here].
My response back then, off site and on, was simple. I said I would have no problem at all if the personal attack rule was evenly and consistently enforced. That... was definitely not happening back then. It was the perfect rule, but wasn't implemented too well. No offense to the mods, but some had simply given up on doing it.
I also pitched an alternative in person, off site, that got little traction in person or online... a "three strikes" add on to that rule.
THIS is why, I believe, if they lobbied any of the management present, they did it when I wasn't around.
That obviously wasn't their ultimate goal, so I was carefully avoided, after I showed little interest in their witch hunt.
That stage of it was hilariously "cloak and dagger"... I'm not kidding when I say that individuals actually pulled me away from others and lowered their voices almost to a whisper when they pitched their little scheme. I thought it was harmless and would be ignored amongst adults tasked with evaluating such silliness. It wasn't.
This off site lobbying was short lived. And before it ever became a discussion online with the community here, it was implemented. Along with a rule that it wouldn't be discussed.
I think THAT was a biggest mistake, but water long under the bridge.
Anyone who actually knew the personalities, knew who the weak debaters were, it was blatantly obvious, who stirred the pot.
The people that really took it hard, were those who could actually muster up real information and interesting points. They got their butts handed to them by the mods because "the decisions have already been made".
Having been personally lobbied (and then dismissed as not useful to the cause) off site, I knew that was going to be their fate. They had no idea they were up against an in-person movement that was never discussed here openly. Dead before they even hit the ground.
Funny thing is, most of these lobbyists aren't here anymore and bailed not long after the changes. They debated poorly, caused problems for everyone else, ran off the good debaters by getting the rules changed, and never were seen again.
As soon as they got their wish, they left never to provide a single line of content again, aviation or otherwise.
They had no long term interest in this place as a community, and even LESS interest in it being a place for real honest discussion. As soon as they had nobody to be their archnemesis, they disappeared for good. Ironic perhaps.
Now we are quite a ways past those days, and normal attrition has caused the loss of a number of others, and we've picked up some new who never really saw any of this go down. Many who once had time for online discussions and contributed greatly now have real jobs, and houses, and spouses, and life changes, and simply faded away. That part is normal.
We've picked up new people who never saw it and get told repeatedly about the "bad old days", so they believe it. I can't say I blame them for that. It's just the usual rewrite of history by the "victors" that happens in any history book.
We essentially once had people who were passionate about providing a very open environment for discussion of all things in pilot's lives once... they specifically built the place to leave a place that went too far into moderation.
Then their passion waned, and they slowly handed off to new folks who honestly don't have that passion.
The new crew's passion is maintaining status quo, and they were actively lobbied by a vocal group of folks who really didn't have the skill set to even be in the SZ, reading it, let alone posting in there, who complained very loudly.
We had some folks back then who really knew their history and their facts who'd hand a standard Internet political "expert" their ass in ten pieces. And THOSE people kept it inside SZ for the most part. Then they'd wander out to the non-SZ area and be as intelligent as they were in SZ about aviation topics. Those people are missed.
The whiners who didn't like them? Long gone. Pulled up stakes and found something new somewhere else to whine about, I'm certain.
The destruction of a place for those smart folks to hang out, basically dumbed down the site considerably. There's really no other way to put it. I couldn't really hang in with that crowd but I loved reading their stuff. Best I could do was make a few observations from time to time.
The perennially offended who aren't even around anymore, were just the folks who couldn't keep up. They were passionate about their opinions, that they didn't come up with themselves... might be a good way of putting it. No depth to their convictions. No interest in discussion.
On a discussion board. A very key piece of information. Posting here naturally means you're here for a discussion. It also naturally means not everyone will agree with you.
Adults can usually handle this. They couldn't.
I'll happily state for the record that my response to the lobbyists was, "No, that's dumb. We're adults. You don't have to argue with that person, or change the rules because of them."
But the schoolyard mob wanted more. And got it. Even managed to get the entire history of it removed from the site so they can make up bigger and bigger tales about how bad it all was, without a smartass like me quoting a bunch of posts where they were just constantly getting their butts handed to them in debates.
I've said it since this all started. Either it's a discussion board or it's not. Aviation and everything else in life are hopelessly entwined in politics.
PBOR, regulations and regulators, FAA, BasicMed, voting for a politician who makes sure the lights stay on at Cessna, Garmin, whoever... tort reform, insurance, government loaning money to Boeing, you name it... it's all political.
The rules now are that such things must not be discussed with any passion. One may only meekly attempt an opinion, and if it bothers anyone, thread closed.
That's the legacy of the off site lobbyists. They aren't here anymore, haven't participated in a discussion here in years, but we all have to live with it now.
Everyone is being carefully taught that those were the bad old days.
I guess the moral of the story is that if you find a place where adults of differing opinions and political bents and backgrounds can have a real discussion about real life, and you enjoy it, don't assume you can just pat people who whine about not being able to handle it on the head and continue to enjoy the place.
Those who can't keep up will stop at absolutely nothing until they have hall monitors and crossing guards at every possible corner and location making sure nobody's feelings are ever hurt.
Then they'll leave as fast as they started whining about it all.
And they'll ALWAYS outnumber the intelligent debaters and discussion topic makers. That's just the bell curve in action.
I've hung out with partisans of both persuasions in person from this site. The really intelligent and interesting ones never were a part of the major movement to dumb down the place. To evoke a couple of names from ancient history, Steingar could go toe to toe with JeffDG and neither would go running to mommy afterward. Not too often anyway. Not that I saw.
It was the mediocre debaters and weak discussion skill set crowd who demanded and got the place lowered to discussions about airliner baggage bins.
The mediocre even ran off the FAR experts who weren't engaged in the political stuff.
There you go. You asked so I answered. Others probably feel differently and disagree with me, which has always been fine with me, but if they voice it, it'll look like an argument -- and the thread lock will hit before anyone has a chance to talk about it much.
Some people can't go back and forth between debating ketchup on hot dogs, airplanes on treadmills, cole slaw, and who to vote for every four Novembers, and not get butt hurt and have to start little whispering movements at picnics to make sure they're never bothered by their inability to scroll past a topic they have no depth in.
I, for one, enjoyed the wildly opinionated and varying opinions back then. It was a real discussion board. Many enjoy the utterly boring place it has become.
Who am I to complain? I don't. I just point out the history and chuckle. It's free after all. Whoever pays the bills can make the place whatever they like. Milquetoast is the Uniform of the Day. The people who made sure it became a dull brown instead of vibrant with color and interesting people, aren't even here anymore.
But no, they weren't really particularly single-minded partisans, more than they just sucked at debate and discussion. They made sure to forever change the site on their way to whatever they're doing now.
