I am sad! N6496R left in wx, no windows

My old Citabria from way back had a tow hook on it. Eventually long after me it went to Brazil, and I was told it flew beer, wine, and sex banners up and down Ipanema and other beaches in Brazil for years, until some dip nosed it over while trying to land right after dropping the banner, and was going to overshoot the runway. It was deemed unrepairable, even in Brazil, and was parted out. I towed some banners, and gliders with it for a while in San Diego.

Live hard, die young I guess. At least it got to enjoy some nekkid girls in Brazil.
 
LDJones said:
There's no shortage of sad, forgotten airplanes. This one has sat for AT LEAST 15 years (that's the first time I saw it....could have been there for ten before that...didn't look much different than in this photo.) Yet they're paying $150+ per month for the hangar to sit there.
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There's a Bo directly across from me that hasn't been flown in 4 years. The owner annuals it each year anyway any my Mx says the only engine time has been his time warming it up (engine NOT pickled - but we're in the desert)
 
Here she is, took photos today.
 

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Yeah, that's saveable(and worth saving). See if you can get some of them in a room and work it out amicably. Maybe show them all some pics of the prev pics in good condition. Give it a try anyway.
 
docmirror said:
Yeah, that's saveable(and worth saving). See if you can get some of them in a room and work it out amicably. Maybe show them all some pics of the prev pics in good condition. Give it a try anyway.
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I think the other three parties hate each other...making it more difficult.
 
Plane's done, have a funeral for it. It's a minimum $30k from flying and that's if all the liens are forgiven.
 
danhagan said:
... my Mx says the only engine time has been his time warming it up (engine NOT pickled - but we're in the desert)
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Desert won't make a bit of difference to that engine. Water vapor is a byproduct of combustion, and some of it gets past the piston rings (especially when the engine is cold) and condenses in the crankcase, where it mixes with the oil. In the presence of metals, a reaction takes place that produces various acids that eat the engine from the inside out. Well-meaning owners have trashed perfectly good engines just by periodically ground-running them. They never get hot enough for long engine to boil off the condensation.

If it ain't going to fly, it shouldn't be run.

http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182849-1.html?redirected=1

Scroll down to Lie #6.

Dan
 
DaleB said:
Used airplane parts gotta come from somewhere.
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Yeah, they do. But this one was self-inflicted and took a perfectly good airplane out of service. Maybe a couple more will fly because of it though, kind of like an organ donor.
 
danhagan said:
There's a Bo directly across from me that hasn't been flown in 4 years. The owner annuals it each year anyway any my Mx says the only engine time has been his time warming it up (engine NOT pickled - but we're in the desert)
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Question for the airplane maintenance experts:
Is there any advantage to doing an annual every year if you're not going to fly it or sell it? Wouldn't it be better to skip the annual until you're ready to fly (or sell)? Even if that annual is expensive from the deferred maintenance, it might be cheaper than 4 years of annuals.
 
ColoPilot said:
Question for the airplane maintenance experts:
Is there any advantage to doing an annual every year if you're not going to fly it or sell it? Wouldn't it be better to skip the annual until you're ready to fly (or sell)? Even if that annual is expensive from the deferred maintenance, it might be cheaper than 4 years of annuals.
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Pickle the engine, cover it up and leave it be would be my choice. It's my plan for my plane if circumstances force a flying hiatus where I don't need to cash in the value of the plane
 
ColoPilot said:
Question for the airplane maintenance experts:
Is there any advantage to doing an annual every year if you're not going to fly it or sell it? Wouldn't it be better to skip the annual until you're ready to fly (or sell)? Even if that annual is expensive from the deferred maintenance, it might be cheaper than 4 years of annuals.
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This whole thread is about people not doing sensible things with airplanes.

For most of us, airplane ownership isn't about doing the smart thing with money. It's about having a plane that you can go fly.

Theoretically, if it's been annualed, the plane's ready to go fly. I would guess for those owners there's a huge emotional difference between owning a hangar queen that's got a current annual vs. one that's out of annual.
 
Jim_R said:
This whole thread is about people not doing sensible things with airplanes.

For most of us, airplane ownership isn't about doing the smart thing with money. It's about having a plane that you can go fly.

Theoretically, if it's been annualed, the plane's ready to go fly. I would guess for those owners there's a huge emotional difference between owning a hangar queen that's got a current annual vs. one that's out of annual.
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Good point. A lot of these are probably owned by someone who intends to go flying as soon as they get their BFR/medical/finances/whatever taken care of... and the plane sits another year.

Maybe AOPA should make this part of their club/partnership push, to get the underutilized planes matched up with pilots who would fly them before these planes become derelict.
 
Matthew said:
Yeah, they do. But this one was self-inflicted and took a perfectly good airplane out of service. Maybe a couple more will fly because of it though, kind of like an organ donor.
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The owner bought it for a flight school. He used it about 300 hrs so he got maybe $50 per hour out of her for 300 hrs.

He then decided to rebuild the engine. They were refurbishing the whole plane so it has new control cables, pulleys and such, new tires, brakes, wheel barriings....New glass...

During the disassemble and sending parts out to be re-certified, cleaned, honed, ground.....the owner got and airport management had a tiff. Not sure who started what but long story short there ended up with $5000 back rent, $5000 back payment on fuel so the airport put a lean on the airplane and the parts to reassemble the engine and airplane are now elsewhere.

Even without the leans, the plane would have had $11k invested in a major overhaul, plus they planned on putting a G430w to make it a technical IFR trainer. So maybe would have had just under $30k in it. AF is 8000. More than I would want to have in a Cherokee even with G430 with new panel and new engine, 7 paint, 8 interior.. That includes the purchase price which I guess should be adjusted since he collected $15k in net/dry rent revenues over the year.
 
Flying an airplane that has the leans is difficult during IMC.

Tony_Scarpelli said:
The owner bought it for a flight school. He used it about 300 hrs so he got maybe $50 per hour out of her for 300 hrs.

He then decided to rebuild the engine. They were refurbishing the whole plane so it has new control cables, pulleys and such, new tires, brakes, wheel barriings....New glass...

During the disassemble and sending parts out to be re-certified, cleaned, honed, ground.....the owner got and airport management had a tiff. Not sure who started what but long story short there ended up with $5000 back rent, $5000 back payment on fuel so the airport put a lean on the airplane and the parts to reassemble the engine and airplane are now elsewhere.

Even without the leans, the plane would have had $11k invested in a major overhaul, plus they planned on putting a G430w to make it a technical IFR trainer. So maybe would have had just under $30k in it. AF is 8000. More than I would want to have in a Cherokee even with G430 with new panel and new engine, 7 paint, 8 interior.. That includes the purchase price which I guess should be adjusted since he collected $15k in net/dry rent revenues over the year.
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Tony,
I feel your pain, and I likewise admire your candor and sensitivity to the ole gal. Most pilots and people in general with their cars, boats and other inanimate objects create a bond. It is hard not to.... It is the capsule of not just instruments, fuel and metal, but our dreams, our fears, our aspirations, our memories..... what makes us people, what makes us feel alive... When that fades and we face mortality or the inability to continue, we struggle with letting tell-tale physical reminders go. It makes us think we are losing that much more of who we once were..... where we once lived, when we were young enough, fit enough, economically-sound and able to do the impossible. That is why people hold onto aging trophies, ribbons, photos and regalia of times gone by...... to not lose themselves.

It can be a sad existence.

You are a good man with a great heart. Hopefully your persistence will pay off and by demonstrating consideration for the plane and what it means, you can convince him of your altruism and honor in this deal.
All the very best.
Andy
 
Their are about 5 Tomahawks at KPWT in long term decay, tie down is always paid, owner has No plans to sell Any of them!

I Own A VW Bug, and 2 VW Buses, and a Chrysler 300 convertible,, I have gotten folks to look at buying them, I ask very low prices,
and then I ask to at Least make an offer, Jeeze, they wont even make a low ball!
Really I would gladly give them away,,, Free,, But you have to haul!!!
Cause they cant stay here...
 
I know for a fact I will be lucky to get a fraction of what I paid and put into the cherokee. I never considered it an asset, but vehicle much like a car that depreciates every year that I get to have fun with.
 
stratobee said:
At Corona sits another 601P with tumbleweeds lodged in her wheel wells. It makes me terribly sad.
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Yes, this one kills me! I get to see it every time I go fly. I love that thing. It's been there for years...still beautiful. Just needs the love that no one can/will give.
 
3 in the green said:
Yes, this one kills me! I get to see it every time I go fly. I love that thing. It's been there for years...still beautiful. Just needs the love that no one can/will give.
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Take some pics next time you go... There is a huge line of "Death Row" planes at nearly every airport, saw about 10 of them this past weekend over at Tampa Executive. Sad. Same story. Offers to buy. Stubborn elderly owners won't sell them because "they are going to get to it one day" ---- Most of them hit the line good, then have melted into the tarmac with the FL heat and weather. A shame when people truly want what is best for the ole planes...
 
There is an older gentleman at my home airport with an always hangared mooney mode F in original condition throughout. It has the original engine with 3500 hours on, it doesn't fly at all but the man has an annual done every year keeping it from rotting and he keeps it clean while paying the $500 a month to hangar it. I offered him 25k to take over the plane and the hangar rent. I figured it was a good deal for him and we could fly together and I could have a nice plane with a new engine and perfect hangar location for 60k ish.
A few weeks after making that offer to him, with no contact, I got a letter from his attorney stating the plane is worth 150k and if I can't pay that to never talk to him again.
Weird. He has owned the plane for over 50 years, I guess i won't understand that logic until I also have something for 50 years. I often taxi by that hangar and he is in there cleaning his plane.
 
In a hangar right across from me is a mid 1950s twin. It obviously has not flown in the past couple of decades. Restoring it to flying condition would cost far, far more than the plane would ever be worth. Talking to the owner, it's been owned by half a dozen people since the 80s... some of whom I know. X bought it from Y, who owned it with A, B and C for a while, then so-and-so bought it back... and the whole time I had only one question. Why? Why was this thing not parted out years and years ago? If you need a token airplane to justify the hangar you're using as a storage shed, why not find a smaller derelict?

I just don't get it... but I'm not paying the rent. And my wife gets the same befuddled look when she looks at my work shop, I guess.
 
I recently moved from Alaska to a small town in the lower 48. Sold out of my airplane partnerships in AK and bought a Grumman Tiger. In the new town, I asked around at the small local muni airfield and was very happy to hear from the city manager, there were 16 city-owned T hangars with low rental rates and I was #1 on the waiting list! That was almost a year ago. Most of the hangars have aircraft in them that haven't flown for many years- Bonanza's, Cubs, Variezes, others. What's even worse is the hangars that house nothing but old furniture and broke-down cars. It's a nice little airfield without a whole lot of flying happening. I have asked the city manager about the situation and he says that he has tried, but can't really dislodge a renter, as long as they pay the rent. On the bright side, tie downs cost very little. :)
 
TheGolfPilot said:
Weird. He has owned the plane for over 50 years, I guess i won't understand that logic until I also have something for 50 years. I often taxi by that hangar and he is in there cleaning his plane.
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He owns a plane for reasons independent from flying it. You tried to force the poor man to spend time with his family, I guess 150k is what it would take for him to do that.
 
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edo2000 said:
I recently moved from Alaska to a small town in the lower 48. Sold out of my airplane partnerships in AK and bought a Grumman Tiger. In the new town, I asked around at the small local muni airfield and was very happy to hear from the city manager, there were 16 city-owned T hangars with low rental rates and I was #1 on the waiting list! That was almost a year ago. Most of the hangars have aircraft in them that haven't flown for many years- Bonanza's, Cubs, Variezes, others. What's even worse is the hangars that house nothing but old furniture and broke-down cars. It's a nice little airfield without a whole lot of flying happening. I have asked the city manager about the situation and he says that he has tried, but can't really dislodge a renter, as long as they pay the rent. On the bright side, tie downs cost very little. :)
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If it's true that there are hangars being used ONLY for non-aviation storage, you can probably force the issue pretty easily. The FAA has recently put a heavy hand on federal-funds airports allowing such activity with the hangars.
 
cheap weenie said:
If it's true that there are hangars being used ONLY for non-aviation storage, you can probably force the issue pretty easily. The FAA has recently put a heavy hand on federal-funds airports allowing such activity with the hangars.
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Thanks for that tip. It is a federal-funds airport, I'm sure. I believe the hangars are city-owned and I assumed that they, the city, would have discretion. Still, if they want to foster more local aviation activity, they are definitely doing it wrong. I'll look into it further.
 
These cases make me irrationally sad. Here's another one...
 

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I wanted to buy a seemingly nice 180 that used to belong to @EdFred. The control surfaces had hail damage and would have had to be reskinned. The underside had wrinkled probably from hard landings. Guy wanted too much money for it. Offered him half of what he was asking for it. He got upset. He was also ****ed off when I asked for copies of the logs. He was also ****ed off at the mechanic that did my prebuy and brought up some minor issues.

I was proud of myself for not getting suckered.

So on my next plane I looked into I got suckered instead. *facepalm*
 
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