Hypothetical IFR question

NJP_MAN

NJP_MAN

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Joe Pilot is a great pilot. Instrument skills are dialed in and he is procedure proficient. Joe Pilot doesn't hold an instrument rating however. When one files IFR is there a method for checking the fact that the PIC is rated ? I always wondered if there are pilots just filing and flying without being rated?
 
Well, the PIC is named in the flight plan, so if someone cared to look, they could. In principle, you could have a real fun time at a ramp check, too, as your certificate is one of those things that you have to carry to fly, and you have to provide on demand.

The NTSB looks rather regularly when people F it up.
 
In the old days,and occasionally now,if you air file ,the controller asks if the plane is equipped,and is the pilot qualified. The PIC is named on the flight plan. I'm sure that ATC could get your info,if needed.
 
MAKG1 said:
Well, the PIC is named in the flight plan, so if someone cared to look, they could. In principle, you could have a real fun time at a ramp check, too, as your certificate is one of those things that you have to carry to fly, and you have to provide on demand.

The NTSB looks rather regularly when people F it up.
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So I guess the answer is no. I bet there are people that will file to get on top of a layer occasionally if they need to get out and are not rated.
 
I still remember this little conversation with MKE approach a couple of years ago. We're flying up to Oshkosh but we arrive over a week before the show starts...

I'm already getting flight following from them:

27K: Looks like Oshkosh is overcast, can we get an IFR clearance from you (unspoken: or are you going to make me go file it with Flight Circus).
MKE: [Sigh] (yes, he literally signed over the air. Like...it looks like the EAA is starting already) Are you rated and equipped?
27K: Affirmative
MKE: Navion 5327K cleared direct OSHKOSH.

First and only time I ever arrived IFR there.
 
NJP_MAN said:
So I guess the answer is no. I bet there are people that will file to get on top of a layer occasionally if they need to get out and are not rated.
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I'm sure you're right -- nobody asks as long as no issues arise and you don't get caught in a random ramp check. I'm equally sure that now and then they do get caught because an issue does arise. Perusal of FAA Order 2150.3B suggests that a suspension of at least 60-120 days is the norm. And maybe some of the lawyers can tell us whether falsely answering that "Are you instrument rated?" question constitutes a violation of 18 USC 1001, which would be a criminal matter.
 
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NJP_MAN said:
When one files IFR is there a method for checking the fact that the PIC is rated ?
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The PIC namecan be pulled from the fligtplan and checked against the FAA airman DB. Do controllers do that? I don't believe so.
Can the system be modified to do it automatically at time of filing? Sure. Will it be easy? Not if it is government system! :lol:

NJP_MAN said:
I always wondered if there are pilots just filing and flying without being rated?
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I assum plenty. :)

Now here's a question that will bake your noodle: if a VFR-only pilot files IFR, flies IFR on a gorgeous CAVU day (IOW, he is VMC all the way), what regulation specifically is he breaking?
 
NJP_MAN said:
Joe Pilot is a great pilot. Instrument skills are dialed in and he is procedure proficient. Joe Pilot doesn't hold an instrument rating however. When one files IFR is there a method for checking the fact that the PIC is rated ? I always wondered if there are pilots just filing and flying without being rated?
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They could always look at the airmen database although I don't think ATC would care to look that person up.
 
I believe I had to email in a copy of my license to fltplan before they would allow the "file" option for IFR flight plans, this was years ago though.

I think the biggest safeguard against people who are not qualified is simply self preservation.
 
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BigBadLou said:
Now here's a question that will bake your noodle: if a VFR-only pilot files IFR, flies IFR on a gorgeous CAVU day (IOW, he is VMC all the way), what regulation specifically is he breaking?
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It's specifically listed under FAR 61.57c:

"Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a person may act as pilot in command under IFR or weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR only if:

(1) Use of an airplane, powered-lift, helicopter, or airship for maintaining instrument experience. Within the 6 calendar months preceding the month of the flight, that person performed and logged at least the following tasks and iterations in an airplane, powered-lift, helicopter, or airship, as appropriate, for the instrument rating privileges to be maintained in actual weather conditions, or under simulated conditions using a view-limiting device that involves having performed the following--

(i) Six instrument approaches.
(ii) Holding procedures and tasks.
(iii) Intercepting and tracking courses through the use of navigational electronic systems."

There is no differentiation between CAVU and low-IMC when flying under IFR (Instrument flight rules). Either way you would be breaking the regulation if you did not have an IR+Currency.
 
I've never had to give my name when I filed in air. I have had them ask me if the aircraft is equipped and the pilot qualified. A simple "yes" sufficed and clearance issued. The would REALLY have had to call around to figure out who I was (transient rental aircraft, etc).
 
I flew out of the same airport near Chicago for about 15 years. Early on I got to know a fellow pilot in passing. I knew he flew quite a few cross countries for work, and I had even hitched a ride with him on a fairly solid IMC day up to Oshkosh.

He was a solid pilot, no complaints, his communications and flying the approach in actual were certainly acceptable. He said he filed everywhere for the practice and the safety.

The rest of this is hearsay, but supposedly he had his plane parked next to the fuel pumps, and he got clipped by another plane. There was enough damage to warrant some form of an investigation. From that it came out that he didn't have his IR. Based on the rumor mill; it was below VFR mins that day and someone noticed that his cert didn't say IR on it.

This happened years ago, but more recently, I plugged his name into the FAA DB, and sure enough there was no IR on there.

I know from first hand knowledge that he filed and flew in IMC, based on the published FAA DB he didn't have his IR. What ultimately happened, I have no idea. But if he was doing it successfully for years, there are definitely others.
 
BigBadLou said:
I assum plenty. :)

Now here's a question that will bake your noodle: if a VFR-only pilot files IFR, flies IFR on a gorgeous CAVU day (IOW, he is VMC all the way), what regulation specifically is he breaking?
Click to expand...
Can I safely assume "baking ones noodle" doesn't not suggest any hard work or deep thinking, but just a bare bones awareness of the FAR? (Hmm, I wonder what part of the FAR deals with the privileges and limitations of pilots?)
 
BigBadLou said:
The PIC namecan be pulled from the fligtplan and checked against the FAA airman DB. Do controllers do that? I don't believe so.
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I know they don't.
Can the system be modified to do it automatically at time of filing? Sure. Will it be easy? Not if it is government system! :lol:
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For one thing, they'd have to add pilot certificate number to the form -- too many pilots named John Smith out there.
Now here's a question that will bake your noodle: if a VFR-only pilot files IFR, flies IFR on a gorgeous CAVU day (IOW, he is VMC all the way), what regulation specifically is he breaking?
Click to expand...
14 CFR 61.3(e):
(e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds:...
Click to expand...
 
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jason said:
I've never had to give my name when I filed in air.
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I have, but only when filing via FSS -- they require all the blocks to be filled, including name of PIC. It's only when filing with ATC that you can abbreviate the flight plan.
Sec. 91.169

IFR flight plan: Information required.

(a) Information required. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each person filing an IFR flight plan must include in it the following information:
(1) Information required under Sec. 91.153 (a) of this part;...
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...and PIC's name is required by 91.153(a).
 
Ron did you actually read what you were responding to in your post #18? Or do you have the Congressman auto reply mode installed in your brain?

The question you responded to with bold text had to do with flying in VMC under IFR, not in less than VMC.
 
People pass me all the time on the interstate where the speed limit it 70 and I am driving (at least) 70 :). Why would piloting an airplane suddenly make everyone "law abiding"" (Said with tongue in cheek!).
 
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