Chatting with a friend of mine about shooting out the door of small (non-military) helicopters and the question arose about how/why the spent casings don't end up in the tail rotor.
#itsthedowndraftstupid?
#itsthedowndraftstupid?
Hunting from Helos - where does the brass go?
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Pi1otguy
Pattern Altitude
I thought all the trendy enthusiast used brass catchers and made their own reloads...
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
I don’t know about that, but I’ve heard when hunting out of a Cub the projectile ends up in the strut. 
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Gravity with some rotor wash help. Apache casings are discharged as well. Just don’t put your tongue on one of them.
Various reasons. Some use brass bags or eject deflectors. Really depends on the helicopter type and who owns how they police their brass or shotgun cases. Had several private customers flying Bell 206 for hog eradication that let the brass fly everywhere. However on occasion the brass does end up where it shouldn't.
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We used a brass catcher (camo bag). I remember Germany was particularly environmentally conscious about our brass.
Other times we just let the brass fly (no camo bag).
Other times we just let the brass fly (no camo bag).
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I always thought it was quaint how the Germans would inventory their spent brass after a range session. They also had a pretty slick reloading tool for the MG3 link belts, which were reusable.
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Flymy47
That's Range 29 at Campbell. I wonder how many hundreds of thousands if not millions of rounds I have shot there! The mini's shoot 3k per minute, and the brass and links are dumped overboard through the dump tubes. Back in the day the earlier feeder/de-linker assembly would spit the brass out through the dump tube, but the links would dump right at your feet in the cabin, which was pretty awesome (not) if you had to kneel to work an inlet jam on the gun. God bless Mike Dillon for perfecting the M-134!
Now, the M240 was interesting. Great machinegun. It ejects the brass straight down. If I was engaging something below the aircraft, and had the gun fully depressed, the trajectory of the brass sometimes made it uncomfortable where it would impact you below the waist...
The thing that scares me about shooting out of a civilian aircraft is the lack of stops to prevent the shooter from accidentally hitting parts of the aircraft. Hell, we have stops on our mounts and it still happens sometimes when things get worn out. And then there's the ballistics of shooting out of a helicopter - the rounds don't necessarily go where the gun is pointed.
All that aside, shooting out of a moving helicopter is some of the best fun I've ever gotten paid to have!
Oh, and NSDQ!
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I was just thinking about that today. You’ve got civilians shooting from a helicopter with no mounts with stops. All it would take is the aircraft banking and someone inexperienced in the back to shoot through the rotor. A rotor not designed to take hits either. I would hope they’re all thoroughly briefed though. Crazy stuff happens in the military as well. Several cases of unsafed weapons and NDs through the aircraft floor.
Fired the M60 doing the ground tables but never in flight. Never shot the 240 at all. Had plenty of opportunities in my off time to do it, just never got around to it. Would have loved to shoot the mini gun though!
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Out in the field, we used to have to have the crew chiefs catch the fuel that the engines purge on shutdown. Big time environmentalists there.
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I actually competed in machine gun marksmanship competitions using the M60. We ran three man teams. The gunner (me), an assistant gunner, who helps with barrel changeouts and is the backup gunner, and an ammo bearer, who carries ammo and helps carry the gun. Our team took first place in our division (3rd ID) and third in USAEUR.
I actually like the M240 better. We had a version of it (M240C) which we used as the coaxial machine gun in the Bradley. It didn't jam, period. And it had a high cyclic rate of fire (1,000 RPM.) The M240 had been adopted for ground units but hadn't been rolled out to replace the M60 yet. Some of the early versions of the ground gun retained the high rate of fire, but later versions were throttled back to 500 or so RPM to make them more controllable.
I really didn't like the MG3 at all. The cyclic rate of fire was high (also about 1,000 RPM) which made it very difficult to control and fire accurately. The G1 (military version of the HK 91) felt kind of clunky to me and kicked a little bit, but then again I was used to the 16. That said, I was still able to qualify with both and earn my Schutzenschnur. To get it, you have to qualify with a rifle, machine gun, and pistol. The pistol at the time was the Walther P1, which was basically a modernize P38.
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We had jams in the M240 but not quite as much as the M60. The CEs complained that the armory modified the gas regulators causing the jams. I don’t know how true that was.
I can tell ya with doors off, they’re both loud. That muzzle is about three feet from your head.
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Flymy47
The M240 had a three position gas plug which could be taken out and rotated to change the rate of fire. We kept ours set to the middle setting IIRC. It is a great gun. Much improved over the M60.
@Sac Arrow, I hope you washed your hands after using that Asbestos glove to change barrels!
@Sac Arrow, I hope you washed your hands after using that Asbestos glove to change barrels!
Havent heard of any serious "friendly" fire incidents outside the ocassional skid tube getting a few extra drain holes installed mid-flight. At least in the TX hog hunting arena. However there have been some guns stuck in the controls that led to a few unplanned landings. On the Robbie end they tend to have engine issues or lose the ocassional hunter out the door in the heat of the moment. Regardless, its a hoot especially when I traded maintenance services for a ride or two with a full ammo box.
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I think the changeable plug was either a later addition or a feature of the standard M240. I don't recall it being present in the 240C. The 240C was a special use version that was solenoid operated and could only be used as a coax.
I didn't even think about the glove!
SToL
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SToL
What's an 'Apache casing'?
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The shell CASINGS that spit out the back of the 30 MM chain gun on an AH-64 helicopter.
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SToL
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SToL
So... they're 30mm casings, right?
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Well it’s a 30 mm round, so the casing is around that size. Not sure what you’re getting at.
SToL
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SToL
I'm simply being pedantic. There's no such thing as an 'apache casing'. It's a 30mm casing.
No harm done, or intended. Have a great day.
No harm done, or intended. Have a great day.
Just don't lead 'em so much.