How to search for a "Direct To" instruction fix

Shawn said:
Thank you...even though the answer has become obvious...that is the most complete answer to my question yet.



Now to spin off on another tangent that is becoming a recurring theme here...just as I said that you have to either look at a VOR needle or GPS screen to get to the fix, both require some amount of "Heads Down"...what is the difference between looking at a sectional and folding it up, over and down to plot where you are vs an EFB like Foreflight with a moving map?....still gotta look at a chart to navigate.

I will agree with you that an over reliance of GPS...and any automation can be deadly if you follow it blindly or make assumptions (AKA Asiana Airlines), but the same argument could be made that is is adding to situational awareness and helps pilots be safer...kinda like it is not the gun that kills people...people kill people.
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Glad you found my reply beneficial, 37 posts into this thread.

A sectional requires less "focused attention" (color coded diagrams, symbols, etc) than all these electronic apps. Compare reading a map while driving versus using your GPS to plug in a location or find yourself while driving.

My opinion.

Gotta know how to "orient your map" tho. This generation knows what that means, yes ? :mad2:
 
flyingron said:
You can also hit NEAREST VOR or NEAREST INT(ersection) and scroll through that to see if you can find what you're looking for and for VORs load the freq up or hit D-> and go there.
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On the CNX80/480? Yup, familiar with that and will frequently make use of it on longer flights
 
B350ATP said:
VFR pilots should be heads outside as much as possible, not scrolling smart phones or playing with their Foreflight hockey puck or whatever else this generation is using
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Eh? My comment was a response to someone talking about their IFR GPS (the 480) and pulling up a VOR/FIX from the database and mine was a short cut that you can get the list of the nearest VORs (pretty useful) and INTs (probably won't have the one you're looking for) if you're lucky.

Never had a controller give me an INTERSECTION to navigate to VFR, but it's pretty darn common IFR.
 
In the OPs situation I would say that it doesn't matter whether you use the GPS or the actual VOR. Either ask for the frequency, the identifier, or both if you don't know. Of course you should know how to do it both ways but the pilot should do what is easier and more intuitive to them. It's just a technique.
 
large dial on right on the 430 ....turn all the way clockwise brings you to the nearest function....small dial turns to the nearest (VOR, NDB, AIRPORT, ATC , etc) ....choose correct VOR, carry on.
 
EdFred said:
Your navigation skills need honing. And I say that because your first instinct seems to be "let the magic box tell me where to go" - at least that's what your posts are conveying.
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No, but I do believe in utilizing the technology...or at least understanding its capabilities and how it works. I learned that lesson during my checkride. I was fortunate to train in a G1000 plane...I learned the system but my CFI and I trained and prepared for the check ride like it was a regular old steam gauges plane. During the checkride, after coming out form under the hood and unusual attitudes the DPE pulled the throttle and we went into an emergency engine out. Now I was in an unfamiliar area...and not sure where we were exactly on the chart after our maneuvers. Spotted a good field...got to 500' and DPE said "Good job, but why didn't you shoot for the grass strip we were right over? A quick spin to the "nearest" page on the GPS would have told you that. Use all the resources you have available to you"
 
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EdFred said:
Sigh. There was no reason to ask. [Samuel Jackson] He gave you the mother****ing frequency for the mother****ing VOR! [/Samuel Jackson]. It would have taken less than 10 seconds to hit the button on the 430 to switch from GPS to VOR, and tune in the only information you needed. Spin the OBS, center the needle, match heading. There's no need to enter into the GPS. People have this fascination with GPS. I gotta do everything GPS. I need my magenta blanket. I can't can't leave the pattern without GPS. GPS GPS GPS.

I will repeat it again. Magic boxes are eroding skills.
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Lmmfao.

This is hilarious.
 
[Larry King Voice] Seal Beach...Hello [/Larry King Voice]

I agree with the Right Said EdFred guy. You should be able to find that on the sectional in seconds.

That being said. Ask for a vector and identifier if you need it. ATC can and will give you the info you need.
 
Thanks guys...appreciate all the input...from all sides. Keep in mind what keeps getting lost here was not an inability to find a VOR on a chart as some have made it out to be, but rather understanding the capability of the technology on board to assist beyond the paper chart and/or asking ATC.

Is the technology needed?...no...Is it there?...yes.
 
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The answer is to hook up to an MFD so you have a proper display of the information. With the G-500 I have no question of where SLI is or that the frequency is 115.7, it's displayed right there. I'll also see pictorially against the coast line so I can look ahead.

I've been using GPS since the first commercial unit Furuno sold. Without a chart plotter sporting quality charts GPS units are pretty limited in functionality as all they do is provide you a reference to transpose to a paper chart.

Is all the information in a 430/530 series? Sure it is, but the buttonology is so bad it's dozens of turn clicks and pushes away. The GTN series at least are touch screen and have intuitive menus and a rubberbandable MFD of a reasonable size with the 750.

The alternative is use an iPad or Android solution.
 
So I'm half swimming through a rain storm over DFW this morning when I hear:

Southwest 1234 direct FERRA.
Err, uummm, approach, we're gonna need that fix.
Foxtrot echo Romeo Romeo alpha

Luckily for those guys Ed wasn't around to key, "mother****ing amateurs!".

Let's lighten up.
 
I will for the foreseeable future read all of EdFred's stuff in the voice of Samuel Jackson.
 
If you set your 430 up and learn it, you can do it as fast as anything if you're in a pinch without a sectional or just didn't catch the frequency or want to do it that way ..

Mine is set to show only navaids, VOR's, int's, airports, etc. on the main display. No roads or lakes or rail roads. Chances are it's close enough if it's a VOR, I'll see it and know which way to head already. Big dial to nearest, little one to VOR's, push little knob, turn and highlight Seal beach, Direct TO, enter, done. GPSS takes over and away we go. Thirty seconds. Tops.

This way, maybe the Ed Fred's of the world won't have to get all institutional ...


SffWg3G.gif


:lol:
 
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Henning said:
.

Is all the information in a 430/530 series? Sure it is, but the buttonology is so bad it's dozens of turn clicks and pushes away.
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Ain't nuthin' compared to a GX. Agreed the MFD makes it bearable.
Doesn't everybody have an iPad now?

And get off my lawn. :D
 
Alexb2000 said:
So I'm half swimming through a rain storm over DFW this morning when I hear:

Southwest 1234 direct FERRA.
Err, uummm, approach, we're gonna need that fix.
Foxtrot echo Romeo Romeo alpha

Luckily for those guys Ed wasn't around to key, "mother****ing amateurs!".

Let's lighten up.
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Evidently you had your head up your ass when I specifically said we weren't talking IMC flights, and where I ask for the fix to be spelled when I am IMC. Completely different than VFR. Not even close.

The point that all the head up the assers are missing is that the OP doesn't even bother to make himself familiar with the flight. Holy ****ing ****, if I fly into an airport a dozen times, I am going to know every VOR within 25 miles. Not necessarily memorize the frequency, but I at least know where the hell to look, or know it's somewhere off to my left or right. ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S LESS THAN TEN ****ING MILES FROM THE FIELD. This is why GPS is eroding basic skills. No one bothers to familiarize themselves when flying VFR. I'll just be a moron and plug it into the magic box. The box will tell me where to go, and what to do. I don't have to think. I don't have to do anything but follow the magenta line of goodness. It will make everything all better, and if I sweet talk it, it might even wipe my ass and tell me I'm the best pilot in the world.

The world is getting stupider.
 
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EdFred said:
Evidently you had your head up your ass when I specifically said we weren't talking IMC flights, and where I ask for the fix to be spelled when I am IMC. Completely different than VFR. Not even close.

The point that all the head up the assers are missing is that the OP doesn't even bother to make himself familiar with the flight. Holy ****ing ****, if I fly into an airport a dozen times, I am going to know every VOR within 25 miles. Not necessarily memorize the frequency, but I at least know where the hell to look, or know it's somewhere off to my left or right. ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S LESS THAN TEN ****ING MILES FROM THE FIELD. This is why GPS is eroding basic skills. No one bothers to familiarize themselves when flying VFR. I'll just be a moron and plug it into the magic box. The box will tell me where to go, and what to do. I don't have to think. I don't have to do anything but follow the magenta line of goodness. It will make everything all better, and if I sweet talk it, it might even wipe my ass and tell me I'm the best pilot in the world.

The world is getting stupider.
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:yes::yes::yes:
 
EdFred said:
Evidently you had your head up your ass when I specifically said we weren't talking IMC flights, and where I ask for the fix to be spelled when I am IMC. Completely different than VFR. Not even close.

The point that all the head up the assers are missing is that the OP doesn't even bother to make himself familiar with the flight. Holy ****ing ****, if I fly into an airport a dozen times, I am going to know every VOR within 25 miles. Not necessarily memorize the frequency, but I at least know where the hell to look, or know it's somewhere off to my left or right. ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S LESS THAN TEN ****ING MILES FROM THE FIELD. This is why GPS is eroding basic skills. No one bothers to familiarize themselves when flying VFR. I'll just be a moron and plug it into the magic box. The box will tell me where to go, and what to do. I don't have to think. I don't have to do anything but follow the magenta line of goodness. It will make everything all better, and if I sweet talk it, it might even wipe my ass and tell me I'm the best pilot in the world.

The world is getting stupider.
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Yeah, before I took my PP Checkride, I could navigate the entire SoCal basin without having to talk to anyone except the tower at the ends if applicable. Everyone could, and you knew all the VORs and built your fences to keep you from crossing the wrong highway at the wrong altitude. It did not take long to memorize the info on the LA TCA chart and one memorized all the pertinent local frequencies just like one memorized all the pertinent phone numbers in one's life, and man impertinent ones as well. I used to know hundreds of phone numbers, now I only know a few, and they are ones I still remember from youth that still connect to the same people. You learned all the frequencies because the optional database is the chart in your lap, and it's easier to remember than look it up.

Someone who flies regularly to Fullerton and does not know Seal Beach VOR and its location on the ground nor frequency or have the chart with easy reference to this material available is in default of their obligation to be familiar with all the information applicable to the flight. The average pilot 25 years ago flying into Fullerton would have jotted down the SLI radial that Fullerton lies on.

What isn't really getting done anymore is homework, and I'm as guilty as anyone else, but I still work my Kx-155 against my G-500 for cross reference or airspace fencing. Thing is now I read my VOR info off an MFD instead of a paper chart.
 
Henning said:
The average pilot 25 years ago flying into Fullerton would have jotted down the SLI radial that Fullerton lies on.
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Because 25 years ago that is all ya pretty much had to rely on in the air.

I know this is the internet and y'all can be as crabby as you want...but your assertion that you can ONLY fly VOR's to navigate VFR is getting absurd.

Do I have all the VOR's along my 250nm trip memorized...nope...will freely admit that. I knew Seal Bach was near by but never had to utilize it before.

I was taught to use MANY nav aids...visual reporting points, highways, airfields, terrain, ALONG with VOR's for my flight planning...AS WELL as GPS fixes....and that is what I do cuz my instructor wanted to be sure that I knew how to use ALL available resources to get me to my destination safely....and that INCLUDES a magenta line in magic box my friend as one of the tools available.

There are people that will drive cars into lakes cuz that is what the GPS tells them. That is a combination of natural selection and the user never being taught how to properly utilize and APPLY the technology. If people follow it blindly and don't fully understand it...they will get killed. I was trying to understand and apply the available technology better moving into the IFR world. That was my question posed. Not how to look at a chart to find a VOR...but keep venting away.
 
EdFred said:
Evidently you had your head up your ass when I specifically said we weren't talking IMC flights, and where I ask for the fix to be spelled when I am IMC. Completely different than VFR. Not even close.

The point that all the head up the assers are missing is that the OP doesn't even bother to make himself familiar with the flight. Holy ****ing ****, if I fly into an airport a dozen times, I am going to know every VOR within 25 miles. Not necessarily memorize the frequency, but I at least know where the hell to look, or know it's somewhere off to my left or right. ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S LESS THAN TEN ****ING MILES FROM THE FIELD. This is why GPS is eroding basic skills. No one bothers to familiarize themselves when flying VFR. I'll just be a moron and plug it into the magic box. The box will tell me where to go, and what to do. I don't have to think. I don't have to do anything but follow the magenta line of goodness. It will make everything all better, and if I sweet talk it, it might even wipe my ass and tell me I'm the best pilot in the world.

The world is getting stupider.
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Between this and the autopilot thread you are in a frustrating position. I guess you'll just have to keep kicking ass and taking names, while trying to accept the rest of us as far inferior beings. I remember all the needle ball and airspeed guys talking the same way so I doubt things will get better.
 
Shawn,

I really feel for you, man. You did everything right. (Asked for the identifier and all was well). Then you posted a simple "Is there a way to find the identifier given only the name using my GPS?" question and the "experts" dump on you as the worst pilot ever. Plus, it's not until post #46 that you get a reasonable answer. (I might have missed an earlier answer hidden in the vitriol.)

I wonder if the "experts" reacted the same way when NDBs and VORs were introduced years ago? "Tune a radio to find out where to go!!! Just land in the nearest field and ask the farmer where you are."

Like you, I'm all for technology, but I also keep a chart in my lap and take note of landmarks in case the display goes dark.

Hang in there.....
 
Meh...I have enjoyed being the poster child for the most unskilled pilot to ever fly. The spin in this thread is better than Fox News "experts" could do.

Think I'm gonna go do some pattern work this afternoon and plot the WHOLE pattern into the GPS and fly the mageta line just knowing that it would make the blood vessels in Ed's head explode!

...then ask on downwind leg of every lap..."any traffic in the pattern? please advise"!:rofl:
 
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upstateny said:
Shawn,

I really feel for you, man. You did everything right. (Asked for the identifier and all was well). Then you posted a simple "Is there a way to find the identifier given only the name using my GPS?" question and the "experts" dump on you as the worst pilot ever. Plus, it's not until post #46 that you get a reasonable answer. (I might have missed an earlier answer hidden in the vitriol.)

I wonder if the "experts" reacted the same way when NDBs and VORs were introduced years ago? "Tune a radio to find out where to go!!! Just land in the nearest field and ask the farmer where you are."

Like you, I'm all for technology, but I also keep a chart in my lap and take note of landmarks in case the display goes dark.

Hang in there.....
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this place seems to have a lot of "experts" eager to fight with each other and everyone else instead of give, (drum roll...), the answer to the original question. This has occurred across numerous threads.
 
At $5.xx per gallon of 100LL, I'll be one of the head up the assers and follow the magenta brick road thank you kindly. :)

Direct to REALLY WILL SAVE YOU MONEY! -- Mattress Mack.

{sam Jackson voice} FVCK A VOR! AND I'M SICK AND FVCKING TIRED OF THESE MOTHER****ING SNAKES ON THIS MOTHER****ING PLANE!


samuel-l-jackson-wizard-oz.gif
 
upstateny said:
Shawn,

I really feel for you, man. You did everything right. (Asked for the identifier and all was well). Then you posted a simple "Is there a way to find the identifier given only the name using my GPS?" question and the "experts" dump on you as the worst pilot ever. Plus, it's not until post #46 that you get a reasonable answer. (I might have missed an earlier answer hidden in the vitriol.)

I wonder if the "experts" reacted the same way when NDBs and VORs were introduced years ago? "Tune a radio to find out where to go!!! Just land in the nearest field and ask the farmer where you are."

Like you, I'm all for technology, but I also keep a chart in my lap and take note of landmarks in case the display goes dark.

Hang in there.....
Click to expand...

Thanks for the credit! I hate it when DA know-it-alls feel it necessary to show us all the path to salvation. I sometimes hesitate to ask questions cause I know that some idiot in his boxers on his 4th PBR is just waiting for me. These boards would be much more helpful if people would just answer questions and realize that everyone has different levels of experience. Here is what I do know, no one has crashed less planes than me.
 
A little tip I used to use as a VFR guy... When in big busy airspaces like that, I also had approach plates.. Jepp's at the time (was training, then let the subscription lapse)...

When I flew I kept a couple of the approach plates with the local airport diagrams with me on my kneeboard, along with a crib sheet.. Even on the clearest of clear days.

One thing that came in handy when flying in unfamiliar airspace was having a copy of a radar vectors departure procedure on the board. It had every VOR in the area listed with freq, ID and rough location in space. Not every airspace will have a generic radar vectors DP but take a few moments and look through your resources on the front end, before your next flight in the area, and have something that will help you with area nav that will improve your familiarity with the area. Just the fact that you've LOOKED at it may joggle your memory on an unfamiliar navaid next time you get vectors..

Tech is great, and I used it to my advantage... but I also had significant (selective) paper backup at all times...

You can view and print the DP from Airnav. Check out LAXX 6 for example. It isn't a radar vectors only DP but it has most of the navaids south of LAX.
 
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