How to lose a customer, car dealership edition...

paflyer said:
Well that's interesting...
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I'm not entirely sure what it is, but the offer is $40 for a roughly hour long survey. I'd probably do it, but I work two jobs and am flying a lot. The same with my brother except he is a boater, not a pilot.
 
mtuomi said:
I gave up on fun cars, that's why I'm looking at trucks. I left my XJR and my barchetta back in Europe :(
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Why can't you have both?

I bought a 2006 911 Carerra 4 last year for $30k - its worth more now -

and I also have a 1964 Ford F-100 . . . . something that I can actually fix with a few bolts undone. . . .
 
Jim Case said:
I'm not entirely sure what it is, but the offer is $40 for a roughly hour long survey. I'd probably do it, but I work two jobs and am flying a lot. The same with my brother except he is a boater, not a pilot.
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Your privacy is only worth $40?
 
First car I bought was a beater from an individual. Never needed an oil change, just a filter change. Adding a quart every 1k miles kept that part of it fresh. It lasted me enough years to where I could afford a new car. I bought my first new car through a broker. Someone I worked with recommended the guy, so I called to see how it worked - I tell him exactly what I want (all colors, options, whatever) and he calls back a week later and tells me a price and pickup location, time, and date. Take it or leave it. That worked out just fine.

Worst experience was when I was looking for a car to replace that first new car - first car wasn't family friendly, and we had a baby on the way. I went to my local credit union to ask about car loan rates and they pulled out a sheet and said, "Hey, look! The local XYZ dealer is having a "credit union" special. They guarantee a price (can't remember if was below invoice or whatever, but it was a pretty good deal) and it goes into effect at the beginning of next month." I went to the dealer the next day and worked out a pretty fair deal on my trade, then said I wanted to get into that credit union sale a couple weeks early. They got pretty angry that I knew about it ahead of time and actually started yelling at me about it, then changed the deal on my trade. I walked out. The next day I went to a different dealer in town and got the deal the first one wouldn't do. The day after THAT, the first dealer called me back and wanted to know if I would come back in to talk again - too late.

The last car I bought I ended up talking with the salesman for a while. Somehow we got to talking about flying, his dad's a pilot, so the guy tossed in a few extras for me. Whenever I stop in for parts or whatever, I always swing by that guy's desk to say hi.

Other than that, most of my car buying has been just something that I want to get over with as quickly as possible.
 
weilke said:
Buying new cars is such a profoundly unpleasant experience that I am suprised nobody has come up with a better way and disrupted the industry yet. It's like they dont actually want to sell cars.
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I think it was Saturn that did that. The price you see on the car is the price you pay. No haggle, no high pressure, salesman on salary because the price you see is the price you pay.....20% above MSRP.... But they made car buying a pleasure.....:D
 
Matthew said:
First car I bought was a beater from an individual. Never needed an oil change, just a filter change. Adding a quart every 1k miles kept that part of it fresh. .
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I had one like that, except what oil that didn't leak out went past the rings. The neighborhood was mosquito free for a few years......:lol:
 
paflyer said:
Your privacy is only worth $40?
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I don't have time is the issue, i get home and go to bed. Get up, go to work, get out of work, go to my other job. And whatever free time I have Is spent in flying and playing in my rock band. My brother has two jobs and is working his way up to be a ferry boat captain. Time is the issue, and that we have told her not to come back, several times.
 
Zeldman said:
I think it was Saturn that did that. The price you see on the car is the price you pay. No haggle, no high pressure, salesman on salary because the price you see is the price you pay.....20% above MSRP.... But they made car buying a pleasure.....:D
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............ and went broke....
 
JoseCuervo said:
............ and went broke....
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Had more to do with internal hatred of the new division inside GM than money -- Saturn employees didn't see themselves as GM employees, and that had to be stopped by their soon to drive the company totally bankrupt, jealous peers.
 
Make sure the VIN number of the vehicle you drive away with is the same as the one on your paperwork. I have bought a few cars (nowhere near 40) and it has never occurred to me to check. It obviously didn't occur to the salesperson either, or my insurance agent. A few weeks after I bought the car I got a call from my nervous-sounding salesperson asking me to check the physical VIN number on the car I bought. They let me drive away in the wrong one. They must have caught it when they went to sell the other identical vehicle. So I had to do all of the paperwork again. But I got an extra few weeks on the temporary plates...
 
denverpilot said:
Had more to do with internal hatred of the new division inside GM than money -- Saturn employees didn't see themselves as GM employees, and that had to be stopped by their soon to drive the company totally bankrupt, jealous peers.
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Or, it didn't.....

But don't let that slow down a good story.
 
If you're going to sell fixed price, why would you make it 20% over MSRP? What kind of scam is that? What on earth does MSRP mean then?
 
Great thread. Misery loves company. It pays to be detached about the process. With experience you learn it is all just a game and kind of funny.

 
JoseCuervo said:
............ and went broke....
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They went broke because their cars were disposible crap.

I had one break a rod bolt at 140K miles. Even my previous Ford doubled that. By far the worst car I've had, and I drive cheap-a** POS's.

I didn't even look at the carnage in the engine. No coolant leaks, so it probably wasn't too bad. But that car was hardly worth the probable crank replacement and the almost certain block bore. I just drove it home on three cylinders, parked it, and donated it. Replaced it with a used BMW that it turns out I got a great price on (I didn't know it, but it was half blue book -- private seller wanted $2500, and I felt it was a reasonable $2500 car).
 
The brand GM should have saved was Saab. Likely the best engineering innovations in the whole industry.
 
Zeldman said:
MSRP..... manufacturer suggested retail price.
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Yes, I know that. But if the actual sales price is fixed 20% higher what kind of "suggestion" is that?
 
weilke said:
Buying new cars is such a profoundly unpleasant experience that I am suprised nobody has come up with a better way and disrupted the industry yet. It's like they dont actually want to sell cars.
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There is a better way. You won't get the lowest possible price but you will get a good price and no haggling.
 
Mason said:
There is a better way. You won't get the lowest possible price but you will get a good price and no haggling.
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I like certain aspects of the Carmax business model, but they (at least my local one) really forces salesperson interaction. I like to walk around the lot and look at cars alone, and then find a salesperson if I want to test drive. I do not want to be followed around, pestered with questions, etc., especially by a salesperson that doesn't actually know anything about the cars on the lot (I have yet to meet a well-informed Carmax employee). But by keeping all the cars on the lot locked up tight, and by having pretty persistent sales folks, I effectively have to have the salesperson "babysit" me. Really turns me off to the process.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Saturn and Pontiac should have been the ones left standing.
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This!

flyingron said:
Yes, I know that. But if the actual sales price is fixed 20% higher what kind of "suggestion" is that?
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Not sure where the 20% higher story is coming from. Never heard that, but just like politics, there's all sorts of stories out there about car companies that have little or no basis in fact.

I do know that you paid sticker price for the car. It was like walking into most stores. You see the price, you either buy it or you don't. The Saturn sales staff were not paid on commission, but they did have a quota to meet.

Unfortunately, in the later years, some Saturn dealers started to hardball upsell stuff like warranties and what not. I never really had any issues, but I've heard horror stories.
 
Mason said:
There is a better way. You won't get the lowest possible price but you will get a good price and no haggling.
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My issue with Carmax is that they sell nearly new cars for nearly new prices. I favor either a) NEW or b) CHEAP. For most carmax vehicles I'd rather pay 10% more for a less equipped new version of the same car.
 
flyingron said:
Yes, I know that. But if the actual sales price is fixed 20% higher what kind of "suggestion" is that?
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Saturn sold cars at fixed price=MSRP(or more accurately retail price). Like Tesla now. 20%(or whatever, i think it was less than that) was the markup over the invoice. Basically, by the time they had become just a re-badged Chevys, you could get the same car car(from Chevy/Pontiac/whatever for less if you negotiate. And with internet it became pretty easy to know what you should pay for the car. That basically killed their model. But the brand was dead long before that for various reasons, including just being bad cars.

The Saturn/Tesla model work if the pricing is reasonable or (as in case of Tesla, it's a specific product that cannot be compared to others). If you are looking at Cavalier at the 2K less than the same car badged as a Saturn, it is difficult to buy Saturn


Many dealers now have no-haggle pricing(for used cars typically). With services like TrueCar or similar(USAA), you can just walk in and walk out with the car(after the finance office BS, of course). Still takes hours, but no need for much negotiating.

My last 2 cars(1 used-2 hours and done, 1 new-most time took deciding color and couple of options -4 hours) were pretty painless experiences. Generally, I've found that if you know what you want to pay and it is reasonable, the experience is pretty easy.
 
Everskyward said:
Make sure the VIN number of the vehicle you drive away with is the same as the one on your paperwork. I have bought a few cars (nowhere near 40) and it has never occurred to me to check. It obviously didn't occur to the salesperson either, or my insurance agent. A few weeks after I bought the car I got a call from my nervous-sounding salesperson asking me to check the physical VIN number on the car I bought. They let me drive away in the wrong one. They must have caught it when they went to sell the other identical vehicle. So I had to do all of the paperwork again. But I got an extra few weeks on the temporary plates...
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That happens to us about once every few years, usually the customer gets the more expensive one and we just change the paperwork and let them enjoy a great deal!!
One time about 10 years ago we had a big mix up. Long story short we had two identical used cars and had sold them both, we had traded one back in that's when we discovered the title/VIN issue. The other car was in danger of being repossessed do to lack of payments, that means we were liable for the loan balance as we had not provided title to the lienholder!:eek::eek: I contacted the customer and it took a lot of convincing to have them bring me their 100,000 mile car to swap for my 60,000 mile car!! They thought it was a scam! They got a much nicer car than they had, the bank had a title that matched the car and I lost a few $$$ but saved $$$$ by not eating the repo fees, late charges etc!!
 
Mason said:
There is a better way. You won't get the lowest possible price but you will get a good price and no haggling.
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They do a good job with their sales processes, price their cars at or slightly above market and sell to people who value the experience over price. They make a ton of money buying cars and wholesaling them as well. They have built a reputation as the place to sell your car, they aren't always the high bidder, but it's pretty hassle free. I like a lot of what they do, not all of it, but they have some really good points!
 
MAKG1 said:
They went broke because their cars were disposible crap.
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Yes, miserable excuse for a car. Buyers were non-car people, looking for an appliance and lured in by the no-haggle pricing. Grainy-sounding engines, Rubbermaid interiors, and plastic exterior panels that could take a hit from a shopping cart....but dimensionally they were terrible, with huge, uneven panel gaps. Orange peel for days in the no-luster paint jobs.

Saturn "engineers" were proud of the lost-foam casting technique for blocks and cylinder heads, but Styrofoam cooler texture on castings was kinda pathetic. Actual Styrofoam for the blocks might've made for a longer-lasting engine. :eek:

Drove an LH 300 sedan once (not my car...let me make that point very clear!!) and pushed it hard through a favorite cloverleaf. The torsional rigidity was so poor that the door tweaked away from the unit body just from cornering loads. I could hear wind noise past the rubber seals that went away when the road straightened. Crap, crap, crap!!!

Gotta love BMWs. The current vehicle, a 2002 3-Series, shows no signs of slowing down at 161K-plus miles (maintained well, certainly) and even at its advanced age the chassis is remarkably tight now despite tired bushings. I'm in the market for a new one in about a year, so I went sniffing around at the local dealership. Even though I said up front that I was a year out from purchase, the salesman bent over backwards to make me feel comfortable. He went as far as having the new objet d' lust (M240i) delivered to my house for a test drive. THAT is how you win over a customer.
 
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denverpilot said:
This. Saab being killed was shameful.
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Yeah, I miss the REAL Saabs. GM Epsilon shared-platform 9-3s and such were better than nothing, but couldn't match the soul of earlier 9000 Turbo models, etc. Drove a 2-stroke 96 once...fun!!!
 
I used to have a hmm.. faster than average Saab 9000 T16. Loved that car. Scary as hell to drive, but great fun.
 
mtuomi said:
I used to have a hmm.. faster than average Saab 9000 T16. Loved that car. Scary as hell to drive, but great fun.
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Sounds awesome! That was an era where they still didn't have a handle on controlling fwd torque steer all that well. But when you got used to it, entertaining for sure!
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
Sounds awesome! That was an era where they still didn't have a handle on controlling fwd torque steer all that well. But when you got used to it, entertaining for sure!
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~600hp and FWD is a fun combination. My local tire shop loved me.
 
Which Taurus was a Jaguar? Weren't DEW98 and CDW27 only platforms used both by Jag and Ford?
 
weilke said:
Buying new cars is such a profoundly unpleasant experience that I am suprised nobody has come up with a better way and disrupted the industry yet. It's like they dont actually want to sell cars.
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Amazon.com is trying to get into the car sales business.
 
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