How to lose a customer, car dealership edition...

Sac Arrow said:
The thing that did it for me was that I go through the whole thing, and at the very end, the finance manager comes out and tells me I need to put full coverage insurance on the vehicle. I'm paying in cash. I've never put full coverage insurance on a new vehicle, and I always pay cash. Finance manager explains that they are still liable for the car as it drives off the lot. I explain that he is incorrect.
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I'd have walked out right there. Go buy the same or similar at another dealer, drive back to this one and say "see what happens when you're a ****ing jerk dealership?"
 
I've had relatively good luck with buy new cars. The only real hassle I've had was when I was trying to buy my first one. My used car had died after a month and I was fed up with used cars. Unfortunately I now had no transportation to go car shopping. So I called several dealerships hoping to get a general idea of how much. As luck would have it I had a bit of cash available and I was hoping to avoid financing. During this time I was in the process of financing my first house, so keeping things off the books was kinda important just then.

Anyway, I started with the Yugo dealer that was co-located with some other brand. Apparently they had just stopped selling Yugos. So much for my cheapest option. When I asked about prices on their other brand, all I got was, "Come on down. We'll work with you." No amount of telling them that I didn't want to pay for a cab just to find out the price was too high would budge him on the price. Sigh... On to the next. And the next. And the next.

I called about 15 different dealerships and the only one that would give me a price over the phone was Saturn. The price was a tad more than I wanted to pay, but the payments would be low enough not to spook the mortgage folks, so I asked when a good time would be to get there in the morning. He said, "Don't worry about the cab ride, I'll just pick you up." It wasn't like we were just down the block. We were on the other side of town. Despite my objections, he insisted.

Next morning, he showed up right on time. What I didn't know is that he showed up in the car that he was planning on selling me. He gave a thorough demo, including beating on the side of the car. I questioned him on the price to ensure it was still good. When he said it was, he tossed the keys to my fiance and we drove to the dealership to do the paperwork. On the way he pointed out all the doo-dads. My fiance was impressed. Her first husband was a car salesman, and she was expecting the worst.

The financing and paperwork were painless and my fiance drove me to work on time. Neither of us knew it at the time, but he sold me my 2nd car that day.

Two or three years later, I had a fellow slam into the side of that car. His insurance fixed it up (surprised they didn't total it!!) and I drove it from the body shop to the dealership. The same one I hadn't been to in the last 2-3 years. When I walked in, the same salesman came up to me and said, "Hi Andy. Are you still at AT&T?? How's you wife? (Called her by name even) Did you ever get that motorcycle running?"

Not only did he sell me my 2nd car that day, but his greeting sold me my third car as well. It just happened a few more years down the line. Once again, all was painless. Ended up buying 6 Saturns over the years. I'm ****ed that they got shut down by GM.

My last new purchase was a Jeep. I bought it through the military exchange while deployed. That process was about as easy as it can be. Tell them what you want, they give you a price. Take it or leave it. Any and every discount/rebate that can be used is applied to the price. If a better deal comes up between the time you buy it and the time you pick it up, they'll honor it. And, you can walk away with a full 100% refund all they way until you pick it up at the dealer.

Once it's at the dealer, they pay them for all the prep, detailing, gas, etc. My dealer was pretty happy when he figured out what was going on. This was his first Exchange deal. However, he couldn't resist telling me that I should have come to him because he would match the price. When I told him what I paid, he said, "Never mind. I can't match that."

So, all that being said, I have no problem walking out if they start up-selling me. I've done it with other items. Not afraid to do it again.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I would've told the finance manager to go to hell at the demand of the insurance change in the first place.

This is part of why I avoid new car dealers. I don't like buying new cars anyway, and all that BS especially gets to me. I do find that American car dealers tend to be worse about this than foreign car dealers, although it might just be the particular dealers I've gone to.

Surprisingly, I have had far fewer problems with used car dealers in this regard. Walk in, this is what I want, buy it, and walk away happy. I also had an easy time when I bought my Dodge Ram (new) in 2004, but went to Texas for that. There's only about a billion truck dealers in Texas (this one was on a corner with 3 other truck dealers on the other 3 corners), so they need to be competitive. The dealer in Indiana where I was living at the time did not have competition and pulled all the standard dirty tricks.
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mscard88 said:
I'd have walked out right there. Go buy the same or similar at another dealer, drive back to this one and say "see what happens when you're a ****ing jerk dealership?"
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Under other circumstances I would have, but it wasn't my vehicle we were buying, and plus I had bought a personal vehicle there before at the same dealership and actually had a good buying experience and got a great deal. That last bit just pushed me over the top though.
 
bradg33 said:
I think the EAA discount is the X Plan (I used it a couple years ago on a Focus ST).
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Love my Focus ST! And ordered it using the X plan with exactly the options I wanted. I probably could have negotiated a slightly better deal but avoiding all the BS was worth it.
 
A few years back, we were looking at specific model new car. My wife (a former race car driver) wanted a stick shift. Dealer said he'd find us one. Wife looked on internet and found one at another dealer 20 miles away. We were test driving it when the first dealer called my cell phone and said he searched and searched and searched and there isn't one within 500 miles. Needless to say, I just LOVED telling that we were sitting in one just across the river!
 
Sac Arrow said:
Under other circumstances I would have, but it wasn't my vehicle we were buying, and plus I had bought a personal vehicle there before at the same dealership and actually had a good buying experience and got a great deal. That last bit just pushed me over the top though.
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But lying to you about insurance coverage, on a cash deal? Wow that's ballsy on their part.
 
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We bought a new (to us) car today. My wife had a minor fender bender a few weeks ago that ended up totaling her '03 Honda Civic. The value of the car was only about $3k but she was upset because it's the only car she's ever owned and was 10k miles away from 200k. We'd been talking about getting a new vehicle this year but it basically came down to today - we need a car NOW. Commuting together was just not cutting it and I'm flying nights this week so it just wasn't meant to be. If we didn't find anything we liked we were going to rent a car for a few weeks.

At nearly the last second this morning before running I hopped on USAA and looked at their car buying service. It's basically True Car and they list some preferred dealers and it seemed like you get a little break on the dealer fees. We looked at a few cars and it was really nice - we knew what we want, none of them tried to get us to try cars we didn't want to see. I told each of them I had some other cars to look at and left. No hassle. We ended up getting a really nice 2014 Audi Q7 Premier edition. It's bigger than we had planned but it was a good deal and again, no hassle. Biggest thing is the wife loves it - sold.

Sometimes it's nice to not get the run around! I hadn't bought a car from a dealer since '99 and this was a way better experience!
 
Went to a dealership today,to test drive a cross over. The salesman gave us the keys and said go drive it. For a few hours. After the ride we had a discussion about the dealership and the vehicle. No pressure from the salesman. All questions answered. Will probably be back,after test driving some other models.
 
mtuomi said:
Well done, unnamed Ford dealer in the Atlanta area (NOT the one run by one of the members here!).
Here's a pro tip on how to lose a customer. Actually, it's not a tip, clearly this dealer already knows how to do this. Call your customer at 8:30PM on Sunday evening. And when that customer (me) says now is not a good time, I'm eating dinner, saying "oh but it will only take a minute" is a pretty damn good way to ensure a) I will hang up the phone and b) I will never buy anything from you. I already dislike unsolicited callbacks, but this one takes the cake...
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Then what happened?

Or was that it? I kinda expected a little more, personally if I didn't want to be disturbed I just wouldn't have answers the phone in the first place.

As for the salesman, rookie move, yeah
 
James331 said:
Then what happened?

Or was that it? I kinda expected a little more, personally if I didn't want to be disturbed I just wouldn't have answers the phone in the first place.

As for the salesman, rookie move, yeah
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Just received an email from them asking if I'm "ready to move forward with the deal". I'm working with someone else to see if a F150 is the right truck for us. If we can get a deal done, I will email this guy and say I'd bought it from them, had they not called me on a Sunday.
 
My dad bought a new 2001 Silverado, leather, all the gizmos etc. almost immediately he had numerous issues, seemingly unrelated at first (gauge issues, security system issues, etc). Ultimately it was found to be all rooted in the electrical system. The dealer balked at replacing it under our lemon law. When dad mentioned "attorney," they said "can you let us get our regional GM rep involved and see if we can get you squared away without attorneys?" Dad figured "why not" and ultimately went to the dealership on day for a meeting with the Rep. They ended up reaching a deal in which dad gave them his POS '01 and drove off the lot in a new '03 for about 10k which wasn't ideal but just wanted to be done and he figured was easier than going the attorney route.

A couple weeks later he had a minor issue with the 03. While checking in at the service counter he couldn't get over how familiar the service writer looked. Then it hit him-the service writer was the "regional rep" that he met with...they had dressed their service writer in a suit and tie and passed him off as a GM rep!
 
More recently we bought my wife a new Honda. I emailed two dealers for quotes. One was about 10 miles away, one about 40. The closer one started blowing up my email, calling to see when we'd be in, blah blah. Super high pressure. The one 40 miles away made one call, gave me some info, and just asked that I ask for him when/if we came in. We bought from them. Nothing will turn me off of buying from someone like high-pressure tactics.
 
jaybee said:
I thought my boss over the past summer was kind of a $%^& when he would answer an unknown number and say "How in the #$$% did you get my number you #$$%^ 2#$%^" and then hangup. Turns out if you cuss at them they put you on a no call list because you abused their employees lol.
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I had one call me back and cuss me out when I did that. These days I tend to say something along he lines of "is this the hospital? Is my (make up family member) still alive?"

Bill Jennings said:
My wife's dad retired from Ford, and that makes most new car transactions painless. Show up, tell them you're buying on the A-plan, and the bullchit goes away. They show you the real invoice, which has prices for the various employee plans. I believe A-plan is the best one, the price turns out to be true invoice minus dealer holdback.
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Usually the A plan (or X plan) work out pretty well. GM has an equivalent. One company I worked with had access to MB's friends and family plan, too. Some dealers don't like them - last shopping I did with the plan, the sales manager walked away because she didn't think she could up sell.

Worst dealer experience I had was a salesman that spent the entire time in his office staring at my ex's chest. I finally said something to the effec of 'you know, her eyes are blue, not brown' and walked out. Found out later that the same dealer had tossed the keys of a friend's trade vehicle on the roof to try and convince him to buy. My friend's brother was a cop.... Needless to say, the dealer had a very bad day that day...
 
I hate high pressure, I also hate dealers who won't post their prices on the vehicles or online. We have two Ford dealers five minutes apart, one has prices posted, the other you HAVE to meet a sales person. Guess where I've bought both my used truck and my wife's new car...
 
I despise cars hopping, so I do it as infrequently as possible. For me and the wife, my goal is one car salesman interaction per decade. Then I buy something good, take care of it and drive it til it won't go anymore and start over.

Bought a used car in '01 when I wasn't planning on buying anything for a few more years. Test drive went well, negotiations were the typical back-and-forth, "let me talk it over with my manager" BS while I sipped on their coke. Then it was off to Finance and a veritable blizzard of paperwork. "And this one says we don't have to spend more than $100 on cosmetic repairs." The poor lady almost stroked out when I tore it up,and began furiously preparing a second one. "But you have to sign this." No, I don't. I don't care what it costs you to buff out scratches and pull dents. As the car sits, I'm not buying it, you can sell it to someone else. When she realized I was serious, out came a clipboard and another form and we went panel by panel, scuff by scuff, marking everything on the form. Two days later it was done, and I checked it panel by panel, marked scuff by marked scuff.

The car she's driving now was bought at a local dealer on Saturday, 1 December, about 5:00. The standard two or three prices shown on the car, and "the best I can do" on the paper. While he was off "checking with his manager," I hit KBB.com on the phone. He slid his next "best price" to me, and I glanced at it and said, "but you're way above Kelly Blue Book." He sagged, asked if I'd buy it at their price, I said yes. After a very long wait while he verified Kelly's info, I paid about $300 under it. Thank you, internet and smart phones, for making this possible. It was a 1-year-old car, needed NOW to replace one the ins co totaled after a deer ran into the side while my wife was driving to work . . . But I still don't care for the whole experience. @sshole salesmen are out to take advantage of me, every time, and want me to buy something right now, but since I'm in it for the long run and not just a couple of years, I don't operate in that mode.

And I don't take **** from a salesman, and high pressure just pushes me out the door. I've only gone back after purchase to show the idiot what he didn't sell me once, it's just not worth my time to do that. Maybe now I can text him a photo of the window sticker? Hey, remember me? You ran me off. Well, here's what I just bought from a salesman who gave a rip.
 
Wonderful timing... I'm about to buy a nearly-new car. Time for POA to share some wisdom!
I've owned 42 cars, but just four cost more than $10K (and several were race cars). Haven't bought a car from a dealer since 1990.

Stepping up to a nice grown-up car that feels painfully boring. Looking at 2014-2017 Mazda6 sedans. Red or Blue. No kitchen appliance colors! Grand Touring if I get an automatic, or Touring if I stay stick-shift.

Found a few. Major, major sticker shock. Wow. All at dealers, mostly Mazda dealers with trade-ins or lease returns. One 'credit union' dealer. All 50+ miles away, so won't get serviced there. Two are "Certified Pre Owned" with an attractive warranty. Is this worth anything?

Gonna test drive three this week. Ideally, I'll arrange for a 48-hour test drive (and willing to put a deposit down). Go immediately to my trusted Mazda mechanic.

How much can I lowball them? Ten percent? Twenty percent? There's a price where they say "No." I want to be $1 more. Paying cash.

How can I find out what they're really willing to accept, and do it reasonably efficiently?

Thanks for the POA wisdom. PMs/Emails welcome.
 
Anymouse said:
I called about 15 different dealerships and the only one that would give me a price over the phone was Saturn. The price was a tad more than I wanted to pay, but the payments would be low enough not to spook the mortgage folks, so I asked when a good time would be to get there in the morning. He said, "Don't worry about the cab ride, I'll just pick you up." It wasn't like we were just down the block. We were on the other side of town. Despite my objections, he insisted.
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Everyone I know who bought a new Saturn had the same sort of story. Dealership was low pressure, easy to deal with, went the extra mile to make the experience pleasant. When I was 10 or so the daughter of one of my mom's college friends bought her first new car - a Saturn. We happened to be in town that day so we went by. They were completely fine with me sitting in all the cars and pushing buttons, and even gave me a Saturn keychain (a leather one at that). Everyone in the dealership came to send her on her way.

I suppose it must not work to make enough money that way, but it sure made for a nice experience. I didn't much care for Saturns as cars, which was probably another factor. But the things were reliable - we routinely saw ones with over 200k at the shop.
 
G-Man said:
POAers - don't let Ted's on-topic and thoughtful reply distract you from my needs! :)
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Fine, here's my advice then. :)

G-Man said:
Wonderful timing... I'm about to buy a nearly-new car. Time for POA to share some wisdom!
I've owned 42 cars, but just four cost more than $10K (and several were race cars). Haven't bought a car from a dealer since 1990.

Stepping up to a nice grown-up car that feels painfully boring. Looking at 2014-2017 Mazda6 sedans. Red or Blue. No kitchen appliance colors! Grand Touring if I get an automatic, or Touring if I stay stick-shift.

Found a few. Major, major sticker shock. Wow. All at dealers, mostly Mazda dealers with trade-ins or lease returns. One 'credit union' dealer. All 50+ miles away, so won't get serviced there. Two are "Certified Pre Owned" with an attractive warranty. Is this worth anything?

Gonna test drive three this week. Ideally, I'll arrange for a 48-hour test drive (and willing to put a deposit down). Go immediately to my trusted Mazda mechanic.

How much can I lowball them? Ten percent? Twenty percent? There's a price where they say "No." I want to be $1 more. Paying cash.

How can I find out what they're really willing to accept, and do it reasonably efficiently?

Thanks for the POA wisdom. PMs/Emails welcome.
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I've owned around 40-some cars myself. :)

First piece of advice, which I'm sure you well know: If you think the car will be boring now, then it will be very boring later. So buy something fun! I'll sell you my 2003 Mercedes E55 AMG. That thing's a blast! Although the automatic is starting to get on my nerves, I hate anything without a clutch and have been thinking about buying a Kenworth. Also selling a pretty mint 2003 Avalanche and a 2000 F-250, but you don't want the F-250, it has a dead cylinder. Now with that out of the way...

I personally don't care much about "Certified Pre-Owned." Basically a marketing gimmick to sell a used car for more money. Usually has more of a warranty involved, so you need to look at the numbers to see what you get. I also personally don't much care for warranties on newer vehicles since, well, they usually don't need them anyway. I believe those 6s all were good from a reliability perspective.

I would try to avoid a dealer if possible. You will pay an upcharge, and they will also try to sell you on financing. Paying cash often isn't an incentive because many dealers make a bunch of money off of financing. If you can pay cash, though, that makes it easier to negotiate with a private seller.

In terms of the amount you can low-ball them, again it depends on the dealer, their mentality, and how they priced it. A couple weeks back I went to go look at a used Dodge at a dealership. I ended up looking at two. On one they would come down $500, on the other one they wouldn't come down a dime. They kept on saying "The bank will loan you twice as much as we're asking on this vehicle, so that's what it's worth." Of course, they were full of crap. Both were priced above what they were worth. I've never run into that before. By comparison, I managed to get my wife's Excursion that we just bought recently for 15% less than asking price, which wasn't a bad price to begin with. One big difference is we bought the Excursion from a used car dealer, and these Dodges were used trucks on a Chevy dealer's lot.

So, I'd look for private seller. Or if you go dealer, go with a used car dealer. I've actually had much better luck with them.
 
Many years ago in Texas I worked for a used car dealer by the name of George Bush. I drove the wrecker, took cars to the auction and brought others back and I repossessed as well.

He had a sign in the office: "Quickest way to walk is miss a payment."

And this George never lived in the White House....
 
N747JB said:
There is a fine line between staying in touch and wearing people out, sounds like they are on the wearing people out program! I don't mind a monthly newsletter or email on specials, but I bought some furnace filters and now I get weekly emails reminding me to reorder or change my filters! Once a month is plenty. I bought a replacement slide for our doggy door, I finally blocked them, 2-3 emails a week!
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Once a month times all of the businesses I do business with, is way way way too often, especially for vehicles. Once a year, maybe. Better yet, see you in ten years...

ColoPilot said:
There are many strange laws with car purchases. Here in Colorado you can't buy a car on Sunday (from a dealer). They changed the law a while ago and liquor stores can now be open Sunday, and every stripmall in Denver has a recreational pot shop (also open on Sunday), but you can't buy a car.
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Bill Jennings said:
Sundays are great days to walk the lot, check what they have, look at stickers, etc., without being harassed.
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I'm tired of that particular Blue Law myself. When I'm working full time, stuff comes up on Saturday enough that you really want to get something done on Sundays sometimes.
 
I gave up on fun cars, that's why I'm looking at trucks. I left my XJR and my barchetta back in Europe :(
 
My next door neighbor sent an e-mail to three dealers with the model, colors and options he wanted. He specified a price and said the first dealer to agree to his terms would get the sale. He had a deal the next day.
 
EvilEagle said:
I hopped on USAA

... a good deal and again, no hassle....

Sometimes it's nice to not get the run around! I hadn't bought a car from a dealer since '99 and this was a way better experience!
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That sounds good.

Has anybody here used Costco's buying service?
 
NoHeat said:
That sounds good.

Has anybody here used Costco's buying service?
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Yep - a number of times. About like buying from the Fleet dealer (which I've also done) ... no, wait ... it IS buying from the fleet dealer. As I've read (here?) or elsewhere, you're not going to get the "best" deal out there, but you eliminate a ton of hassle, haggling (which I despise) and save a bunch of time. I believe you get a good price.
 
I rarely buy a new vehicle, usually shoot for 2-3 years old. Decided to buy this particular car new and researched it on the internet. This was when the internet came into being. Found out about 'hold back' and what it was. In this case the dealer could actually sell the car at invoice and still make $500, which was the hold back amount that the manufacture paid to the dealer. So I called and told the saleswoman what I knew, and that I was offering. I think $300 over invoice. Silence, then she asks you've been on the internet haven't you. Yup. Hold on a minute she says, and after a few minutes says ok, we'll sell it at that price to you. Helps too if you know there's a bunch of a particular model you want that at sitting on their lot.
 
There are pricing guides that will tell you what a good price is. It's actually easier these days as there isn't a whole lot of "a la carte" options on the lot cars, just two or three "trim levels." Some dealer will almost certainly be happy to sell you for close to that level. As I said, I've had good luck the last two cars I bought because I KNEW what the price was that was fair to both me and the dealer. Yeah, there's some "I gotta talk to my manager" bull, but they come out with the price I offer or I walk.

Mostly I buy new but I also tend to drive my cars into the ground 10+ years. I remember driving to work one Monday morning in my 10 year old Suburban thinking maybe I should buy something more fuel efficient, but deciding that it was still running well and even with the gas factored in, it's cheaper to keep it going. I didn't realize that the decision was going to be made for me two blocks later when I got struck by a moving van: air bags deploy, the cop who investigated said that the truck spun my suburban and drove it back 20 feet. He figues the guy was going way in excess of the 25MPH speed limit.
 
mtuomi said:
Well done, unnamed Ford dealer in the Atlanta area (NOT the one run by one of the members here!).
Here's a pro tip on how to lose a customer. Actually, it's not a tip, clearly this dealer already knows how to do this. Call your customer at 8:30PM on Sunday evening. And when that customer (me) says now is not a good time, I'm eating dinner, saying "oh but it will only take a minute" is a pretty damn good way to ensure a) I will hang up the phone and b) I will never buy anything from you. I already dislike unsolicited callbacks, but this one takes the cake...
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That kind of thing ****es me off. I have this woman, works for the census bureau, shows up at my doorstep (my parents doorstep anyway, young guy here ) at 5:00 on a Sunday at least three times a month trying to conduct some survey, my parents tell her to leave, she says she needs to ask me or my brother before she goes even though we have told her at least 10 times to go away and don't come back, and called her superiors and tod them not to send her back. The last time we just uttered the phrase that sends our two 100+ pound German shepards into defense mode, and opened the door, they won't attack, but they will run outside barking and snarling like monsters.
 
Buying new cars is such a profoundly unpleasant experience that I am suprised nobody has come up with a better way and disrupted the industry yet. It's like they dont actually want to sell cars.
 
geneseib said:
A few years back, we were looking at specific model new car. My wife (a former race car driver) wanted a stick shift. Dealer said he'd find us one. Wife looked on internet and found one at another dealer 20 miles away. We were test driving it when the first dealer called my cell phone and said he searched and searched and searched and there isn't one within 500 miles. Needless to say, I just LOVED telling that we were sitting in one just across the river!
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Some new car dealers remove in-demand models from the database so they dont get all the trade requests from other dealers. I had the same experience with two different stick-shift vehicles (an Accord and a Nissan Frontier).
 
Going into a dealership is right up there with a trip to the DMV. There has to be a better way and there is a better way but the system is the issue. The salesman make a commission which causes them to be ball busters. There is no reason that they cannot sell cars like everything else in our lives. Here is the product, here is the price. Yes or no.
I have had some great times buying cars on the salesmen s expense. It is not a pleasant endeavor but it is what it is.
 
The last purchase I negotiated by email. Went in, test-drove, gave the kid my email and told him to get me his best offer. The dog and pony show is much less painful if you can do it by email. Once we arrived at $4000 below his 'best offer', I had him fax me the purchase order.
 
weilke said:
Some new car dealers remove in-demand models from the database so they dont get all the trade requests from other dealers. I had the same experience with two different stick-shift vehicles (an Accord and a Nissan Frontier).
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We deal with that all the time, it makes us look like liars when the dealer down the street hides his inventory from the locator service. One local dealer is terrible about doing it, but we have a good relationship with them and we have their log in and password so we can at least look at their inventory! :D
 
Acrodustertoo said:
Going into a dealership is right up there with a trip to the DMV. There has to be a better way and there is a better way but the system is the issue. The salesman make a commission which causes them to be ball busters. There is no reason that they cannot sell cars like everything else in our lives. Here is the product, here is the price. Yes or no.
I have had some great times buying cars on the salesmen s expense. It is not a pleasant endeavor but it is what it is.
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Tesla is trying, but their premium pricing and pushback from "traditional" dealers (among other things) is keeping them from getting outside the niche market. In my experience, the higher-end dealers are generally better, though not always.
 
Jim Case said:
That kind of thing ****es me off. I have this woman, works for the census bureau, shows up at my doorstep (my parents doorstep anyway, young guy here ) at 5:00 on a Sunday at least three times a month trying to conduct some survey, my parents tell her to leave, she says she needs to ask me or my brother before she goes even though we have told her at least 10 times to go away and don't come back, and called her superiors and tod them not to send her back. The last time we just uttered the phrase that sends our two 100+ pound German shepards into defense mode, and opened the door, they won't attack, but they will run outside barking and snarling like monsters.
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You are required by law to answer the questions.
 
paflyer said:
You are required by law to answer the questions.
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No, they are trying to pay us for it, I called the bureau and asked. It's an hour survey for $40. I don't really have the time for it, i work 2 jobs. I would probably do it otherwise, $40 bucks for pracrilly nothing and all.
 
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