How close to lightning...

I would say, any lighting you can see in daylight is too close.

Lighting means thunderstorms. Standard rule is to give towering TRWs a 20nm clearance.
That was AF flying, needed at least 40nm between cells on radar to penetrate an active line of TRW, or 20nm to pass a single cell.
 
okay, lets modify -

giving 5 minute hops in a helicopter, storm 10 miles (30 min) away...
 
jaybee said:
okay, lets modify -

giving 5 minute hops in a helicopter, storm 10 miles (30 min) away...
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10 miles may not be 30 minutes.

There is an advance gust front if the storm is moving that can reach you before the storm.

And if the storm suddenly collapses the outflow gust can cover that 10 miles in mere minutes, single digit minutes.

Last week someone posted an excellent overhead radar depiction showing the far reaching gust front.

Two weeks ago a storm moved through LAS. The gust front was recorded at 71knts.
 
You only have to get to close once and experience a thunder storm the heavy rain and up and down drafts will make you a believer .
 
jaybee said:
... in small aircraft before you get nervous.
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On the ground waiting to takeoff or inflight?

On the ground I'd be okay with 10 nm away with a fresh radar loop in my mind or onboard.

In flight...well, I was going to say 20 nm. But then, I've been closer in certain situations. Well defined cell with me on the upwind side I guess I've been about 10 as well.

I've never been struck so far...knock on wood.
 
Our company requires us to keep 20nm from cells. And I consider the Lear a small airplane. Sometimes that doesn't work as much as we would like.
 
During the summer in the southeast it's impossible to adhere to the recommended 20 miles from Tstms. We'd never be able to fly. We even have a block on our risk assessment for convective activity within 20 miles. Personally I like to keep 10 miles but I've been within 5 on several occasions with little harmful effects. Lightning is the least of my worries. Turbulence and hail are the primary ones.
 
+1 to hail. Never hit it and I hope to keep it that way. In fact, hail is my biggest weather related fear. I guess a tornado would be higher up on the danger scale but lower on the probability scale so hail remains my biggest weather concern.

I never (try my absolute best) fly past a towering cell without knowing if I'm upwind or downwind from it. If downwind I give it an extra wide berth. If upwind I just try to stay out of it unless I see lightning, and then I back off a bit. With the same logic I really try to avoid flying under any part of the anvil.
 
I have gone through hail once, and been struck by lightning twice. I think the lightning strikes were scarier than going through hail. The oddly enough did more damage than the hail too.
 
+1 on hail and upwind/downwind
Impossible to fly and stay 20nm away from thunderstorms in FL in the summertime
 
I've seen a Lear 35 that penetrated heavy hail and it wasn't pretty. It took about 3 months to repair it, All the leading edges were replaced. All of the light covers were at least cracked, radome and inlets were sent out, followed by a complete repaint
 
I have done all of my flying in Florida, and since starting on my PPL in April 2010 have done almost 500 hrs, of which 180 hrs are cross country, typically PGD to someplace on the east coast. Except for a rare occasion I fly every weekend, both Saturday and Sunday. 60% of my flights are before 1300 local, 35% are from 1300 until nighttime and the rest are after nighttime. Flights are mostly VMC though I have about 30 hrs in true IMC. Though by no means am I an expert on the subject, nor do I have the most experience, I do think I have some exposure to the "unique" flight characteristics of southern Florida. It is not easy to avoid flying without some scattered thunderstorms in the area in Florida, but even so I have personally only once been closer than 30 miles from a thunderstorm, and that was about a month ago. I was flying from LNA back to PGD on an IFR plan at 6000 ft, and had been told by ATC of some moderate rain showers at my 12 o clock position 5 miles in front of me. I enjoy flying through clouds, and unless the turbulence is real bad typically do not divert for moderate showers. I have both storm scope and XM lightning, and there were no strikes within 50 miles of my position and the NexRad had the rain clouds in front of me at light to moderate on the scale, nothing I had not been through before. I do not know why but that cloud formation just did not look inviting to me. It was more of a gut feeling than anything else. I told ATC I was going to deviate south, and got their approval. About three minutes later a bolt of lightning struck from that cell, which still was light to moderate on NexRad, and was picked up by both XM lightning, and StormScope. If I had penetrated that cloud I would have been at the same spot the lightning hit.

So though I think there is a chance of getting caught unprepared by a thunderstorm in Florida, my experience for me at least is by being aware of what is going on around you, and using all data sources you have available, staying at least 20 or 30 miles from a thunderstorm is even doable in Florida the vast majority of the time. There may be some need for deviations, and occasionally flight delays, or cancellations, but that the game.
 
moonshine said:
+1 on hail and upwind/downwind
Impossible to fly and stay 20nm away from thunderstorms in FL in the summertime
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20nm makes sense for big (i.e. tall) TRW but 5nm is plenty far from the ones that top out in the mid 20's. You can also often tell how nasty a cell is and how much room you should give it by the color and shape of the clouds. Smooth edges and light grey, you'd probably be OK flying through it (don't though) and a 5nm separation will be fine. Dark grey, maybe 10 nm, black and/or with a bumpy lower surface dictates that 20nm or greater avoidance as does anything with an "anvil". Dark green and I don't want to be in the same county. Safe separation is also influenced by whether you're behind (where the storm came from) or ahead (where it's going) of the cell. According to what I've read, ahead is where the hail might be in clear air if it's got an anvil and the top is 45+k.
 
douglas393 said:
I have done all of my flying in Florida, and since starting on my PPL in April 2010 have done almost 500 hrs, of which 180 hrs are cross country, typically PGD to someplace on the east coast.
...
It is not easy to avoid flying without some scattered thunderstorms in the area in Florida, but even so I have personally only once been closer than 30 miles from a thunderstorm, and that was about a month ago.
...
So though I think there is a chance of getting caught unprepared by a thunderstorm in Florida, my experience for me at least is by being aware of what is going on around you, and using all data sources you have available, staying at least 20 or 30 miles from a thunderstorm is even doable in Florida the vast majority of the time. There may be some need for deviations, and occasionally flight delays, or cancellations, but that the game.
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How the heck did you manage that, I wonder
Attached is a photo from two weeks ago. That particular CB is camera shy (7 lightning strikes within a minute, not a single one on camera) and also got angry when I decided to deviate around. Was showing light to moderate three minutes before the picture (and deviation)

My flights are more evenly spaced out throughout the day though. I can think of at least half a dozen thunderstorms as close as the one in the picture this summer alone. On IFR flight plans and deviating.

PS While uploading the pic, found another one just off of PBI, coming in to land. Might have posted it before, so appologies if I did. That's 2-3mo's ago.
 

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moonshine said:
How the heck did you manage that, I wonder
Attached is a photo from two weeks ago. That particular CB is camera shy (7 lightning strikes within a minute, not a single one on camera) and also got angry when I decided to deviate around. Was showing light to moderate three minutes before the picture (and deviation)

My flights are more evenly spaced out throughout the day though. I can think of at least half a dozen thunderstorms as close as the one in the picture this summer alone. On IFR flight plans and deviating.

PS While uploading the pic, found another one just off of PBI, coming in to land. Might have posted it before, so appologies if I did. That's 2-3mo's ago.
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Maybe lucky for some, but a lot of it is knowing that most of the thunderstorms occur in the afternoon hours and I avoid flying then, and if I have to fly then I take a good look at the weather available and the cockpit datalink while flying and avoid cells of greater than moderate rain like the plague. I video all my flights since a few months after getting my PPL, and the only time I have come close was that one time. I have a friend who almost lost his life in a thunderstorm, and do not want to have his experience.
 
scottd said:
Your aircraft is more likely to be struck by lightning when no natural lightning exists. It's called aircraft-induced lightning. It's very rare to be flying along and be hit by lightning during a storm with natural lightning. I explain this in more detail in this e-Tip that I sent to my members.
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So to avoid lightning strikes we should fly as close as possible to the "natural" lightning? :D
 
douglas393 said:
Maybe lucky for some, but a lot of it is knowing that most of the thunderstorms occur in the afternoon hours and I avoid flying then, and if I have to fly then I take a good look at the weather available and the cockpit datalink while flying and avoid cells of greater than moderate rain like the plague. I video all my flights since a few months after getting my PPL, and the only time I have come close was that one time. I have a friend who almost lost his life in a thunderstorm, and do not want to have his experience.
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Yup, as I said, my flights are more evenly spaced out throught the day.

Also, there are just places that tend to have more thunderstorms. This summer seems to be a bit different, but normally whever you go north out of the FL peninsula, there's a line cutting across.
That was in that line that I popped out with ice on the wings last July at 7000ft and +20C or so OAT. Real eyeopener :yikes:
Another interesting phenomenon that took me by a huge surprise :) was the static squeal on the VHF radio. Was cutting a bit too close to the side of a dissipating but still active CB with tops in the 40s. Later read in Bob Buck's Weather Flying that this is what normally precedes a lightning strike. Didn't get that, but saw dozens off of my right wing.
Thunderstorms are magnificent creatures. I wouldn't want to fly inside them, but I personally believe that the more you see the better, since you pick up the "body language" of the CBs and understand them to a greater extent. I'd do nothing but study thunderstorms if someone paid me for that :yes:
 
Lightning doesn't scare me that much, the storm it's emitting from is more of a concern.
 
Kinda depends on aircraft type as well. Flying a B407 I know the aircraft has been tested for lightning protection. The FADEC has been hardened against it and the blades have metal flakes in the paint. It'll be damaged if hit but not as much of a worry for me compared to hail or extreme turb.

Flying a composite homebuilt around I have more of an awareness of lightning. I haven't heard many reports of composite homebuilts being hit but it's not something I want to mess with. Not sure what kind of damage it would do but I don't want to be flying along and my aircraft explodes around me and I'm left holding a stick. :) I've read about people choosing RVs over composite because of this. To me it's not an important factor in considering aircraft to buy though.
 
Captain said:
[Snip]I never (try my absolute best) fly past a towering cell without knowing if I'm upwind or downwind from it. If downwind I give it an extra wide berth. If upwind I just try to stay out of it unless I see lightning, and then I back off a bit. With the same logic I really try to avoid flying under any part of the anvil.
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My one and only meeting with Smiling Dr. Bruce was in Auburn-Lewiston, Maine KLEW. I seem to recall that, later he was to be en route to Bangor KBIA. That's a straight line 30 min. flight(in HIS plane). If I recall correctly, there was a mean-looking thunder/lightning factor in the original plan and he instead flew to Rockland KRKD. That made the trip into a very strong triangular flight plan, 30 minutes or more just to Rockland. Erring on the side of caution, as he will always advise.

HR
 
A friend of mineral into some hail this summer in his Lear! :yikes:

 
Thanks for all the replies. Just trying to balance keeping the money flowing in and not dieing on the job !

Of course if wind and/or hail is an issue then we are not going. I'm talking small pop up storms that last 15 minutes at best - don't even form an anvil. Can see a lightning strike from 20 miles away pretty easily and that is enough for some of the guys/gals to ground the aircraft.

So again, not talking about XC flying or trying to circumnavigate storms or anything. Talking about can see lighting up to 20 miles away and people are refusing to do a 5 minute hop. So I was basically wondering what do they know that I don't.
 
Look for which way the storm is traveling, 20 miles seems respectable, except when you are infront of the storm. Seems to me that is where the next strike is coming from. YMMV.
 
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