Highest altitude cell/4g will work?

This I think would be the best bet!

TangoWhiskey said:
Me too, or over big towns. If I need to send a text message, I'll type it up, have it queued and ready to send. Hold the phone near the plexi window, and watch the signal strength bars as I get near a highway OR a town/city. Once I'm over either, I usually get 2-3 bars, send the message, and then put the phone away. You can check your incoming messages the same way, next highway or town.
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Bird Man said:
Great. I wanted to shoot an eta text about 20 minutes from my destination. I'm assuming I will get a signal around 2,500 agl.

This option should be programmed into foreflight, avare, fltplan go, etc... Have a prewritten text notification x minutes out when u reach x point. That would be very cool feature.
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If you're able to file IFR the party you are meeting could go on flight aware and subscribe to alerts for your flight. They'll get texts when you depart, when you're 15 minutes out, and when you arrive.

It's hit or miss with VFR flight following, I think it depends what kind of transponder code they give you.
 
Usually I can receive texts intermittently if I leave my phone on, but trying to send them is real hit-or-miss at a typical 5-6k AGL cruise. Even with a strong signal you're jumping towers so fast that it's hard to make it work.

One piece of advice -- don't promise someone on the ground they will get a text. For one thing, you may be busy flying the plane, but for another, it may not get through. Like with FlightAware -- my wife likes to track me on FA just for worry-mitigation, but I've made abundantly clear that if the track drops off in the middle of nowhere don't even start worrying. I wouldn't want to tell someone "hey I'll text you halfway so you know when I'm arriving" and have them call the FAA freaking out when they never got a message.
 
gms5002 said:
If you're able to file IFR the party you are meeting could go on flight aware and subscribe to alerts for your flight. They'll get texts when you depart, when you're 15 minutes out, and when you arrive.

It's hit or miss with VFR flight following, I think it depends what kind of transponder code they give you.
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Ditto... I tell them to watch FlightAware if I'm IFR, but always point out that the data may drop out and that they shouldn't worry if that happens.

On VFR flight following the data is much more unreliable and you likely won't show up at all unless your flight crosses between controller facilities and they do an electronic handoff between facilities. FlightAware doesn't see "local" codes that tend to get issued when you stay within one facility for VFR.
 
Bird Man said:
It is a violation for the PILOT to text while flying.
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Violation of what? Are you sure you're not confusing airplanes with cars? Pilots have to multitask, and that includes taking both hands off the control wheel to fold charts, looking inside the cockpit for many seconds at a time (even when flying visually), etc.
 
For knowing how close you are to landing, just send your interested parties a link to your Spot, SpiderTracks or DeLorme device's tracking page. Much more reliable than cell or depending on FlightAware (especially if you're VFR, with or without radar flight following).
 
FAA banned personal use of cellphones, laptops and tablets for pilots as of April 2015.

You can however use them for essential purposes like Navigation, etc...

acrophile said:
Violation of what? Are you sure you're not confusing airplanes with cars? Pilots have to multitask, and that includes taking both hands off the control wheel to fold charts, looking inside the cockpit for many seconds at a time (even when flying visually), etc.
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Flying down VFR, so that's not an option for me. That would be a great idea though.

gms5002 said:
If you're able to file IFR the party you are meeting could go on flight aware and subscribe to alerts for your flight. They'll get texts when you depart, when you're 15 minutes out, and when you arrive.

It's hit or miss with VFR flight following, I think it depends what kind of transponder code they give you.
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That was from 2014. I could be completely wrong.

However, I read an article in February this year of a downed Helo. He was sending a text right before he went down. The article stated a new regulation going on the books banning personal use of devices other then essential use.

weilke said:
For part 121 passenger and cargo ops. Even scheduled part 135 is not affected by this rule.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2014-02-12/pdf/2014-02991.pdf

Did they prohibit crossword puzzles or issues of car&driver as well ?
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Bird Man said:
That was from 2014. I could be completely wrong.

However, I read an article in February this year of a downed Helo. He was sending a text right before he went down. The article stated a new regulation going on the books banning personal use of devices other then essential use.
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Use of PEDs has been a pet-peeve of the NTSB for a while now. Whether the helicopter crash in question was caused by the pilot sending a text is up for discussion. The regulation that was in the rulemaking process at the time made a revision to part 121.
 
I've been able to get bars and send texts with varying degrees of success up into the low flight levels.

I can regularly send/receive texts when cruising at 11k or 12k (varying from 7,000 to 11,000 AGL) depending on where I am. I've even been successful at sending pics once in a while. Occasionally I will hold the phone near the Plexiglas on the side that I estimate has the strongest signal. If my wife is in the plane then she handles virtually all of the texting, the SPOT messenger, etc.

Mostly, now that I'm IFR, I have people track me on FlightAware. Easiest way to know ETA and current location. They all have my tail # tagged for notifications. So little need for texting other than to ask what we want for lunch. :D

I, as PIC, determine whether PEDs (and here I specifically mean transmitting PEDs) are OK for use at any given time in my airplane. I have determined that there is zero effect on anything relating to safety of flight given the small amount and manner in which I and my pax have used PEDs.
 
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How does speed affect the 4G stuff? On old 2G stuff, if you were going fast enough, you lost signal. Speed of light wasn't fast enough for them... (well, bit more complex than that but still..)
 
mtuomi said:
How does speed affect the 4G stuff? On old 2G stuff, if you were going fast enough, you lost signal. Speed of light wasn't fast enough for them... (well, bit more complex than that but still..)
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Not greatly, but it depends on how large the area of coverage is I suppose. Over cities I'll often catch a spot of LTE service, which is nice and that's where I can sneak out the occasional pic. It lasts while I'm over or near that city. So I guess the faster you fly the faster it goes by.

I cruise at 162 KTAS, just shy of the speed of light to minimize time dilation, and I don't notice dropouts during the time I'm over a city. :D

I can get 4G (not as fast as LTE nor as slow as 3G/Edge) coverage in a lot of surprising places. It only takes one bar or so to get a text in or out.
 
This is the only info I have found. Like I've said I could definitely be wrong about this.

"Cell phones (and other intentional transmitters) differ from most PEDs in that they are designed to send out signals strong enough to be received at great distances. Since 1991, the FCC has banned the inflight use of cell phones because of potential interference with ground networks."

I guess the use of personal devices is part of 121. I can't find anything about GA personal use.

flyingron said:
Violation of what?
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The EMS Astar pilot in question was in violation of company policies on use of PEDs in flight. Not to mention FAR VFR fuel planning requirements.
 
mtuomi said:
How does speed affect the 4G stuff? On old 2G stuff, if you were going fast enough, you lost signal. Speed of light wasn't fast enough for them... (well, bit more complex than that but still..)
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Actually, in most cases that was wrong even back then. The guys in the back of UA 93 had no problem using their cells on board a moving airliner.

The problem with the airborne back then is much as it is today, they antennas are NOT omnidirectional. They don't waste sending signals up into what is supposed to be vacant airspace.

The problem is the key to the way the old time cellular worked is spatial diversity. As you got into busier areas, they made the cell sites closer together. To do make this work, the cell system commands your cell phone to lower power outputs so that you hit only as few cells as possible (ideally, only the one you're actually conversing with). The problem with airborne use (and the reason that Part 22 restriction was there to begin with), is that given some altitude, you'd equally well hit all the cells in a given area. Even after your phone was commanded to minimum power, you were still blocking communications by other users on that channel across the whole metro area.
Well, the phone companies caught on (they're no dummies) and would just drop (or refuse to serve) calls that lit up the entire network at once.
 
Bird Man said:
This is the only info I have found. Like I've said I could definitely be wrong about this.

"Cell phones (and other intentional transmitters) differ from most PEDs in that they are designed to send out signals strong enough to be received at great distances. Since 1991, the FCC has banned the inflight use of cell phones because of potential interference with ground networks."

I guess the use of personal devices is part of 121. I can't find anything about GA personal use.
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You're wrong. As has been pointed out a gazillion times in this thread, the FCC only EVER banned inflight use of AMPS telephones (part 22). Read my previous post for the why.

All the carriers I know (I believe Verizon was the last in the US) shutdown their AMPS service in 2004. This wasn't an issue as the non-digital phones had gotten so long in the tooth by then that they were pretty much not used. It caused some heartburn fo those with some of the earlier ONSTAR car units as these went dead (and most people didn't even understand they were just cellphones to begin with).
 
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I used to frequently fly from SOCAL airports to/from SLC and PVU. At FL380/FL390 the guys with the Android phones could quite regularly get a usable signal around MMM and SGU for 2 or 3 minutes. Those of us with iPhones got nutt'n. At least that's what happened when we forgot to turn off our phones. :yes:

The big problem was up at those altitudes your battery life is drastically shortened as the phone is always searching for usable signals. Once the boss installed wifi, we just started Skyping.
 
petrolero said:
Not greatly, but it depends on how large the area of coverage is I suppose. Over cities I'll often catch a spot of LTE service, which is nice and that's where I can sneak out the occasional pic. It lasts while I'm over or near that city. So I guess the faster you fly the faster it goes by.

I cruise at 162 KTAS, just shy of the speed of light to minimize time dilation, and I don't notice dropouts during the time I'm over a city. :D
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You might wanna mosey on by to the 182rg vs 201J thread then, since the mooniacs are foaming at the mouth over there and you just suggested your 182 outruns a mooney. :D
 
hindsight2020 said:
You might wanna mosey on by to the 182rg vs 201J thread then, since the mooniacs are foaming at the mouth over there and you just suggested your 182 outruns a mooney. :D
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He's not lying! :) I own a TR182 as well.

I routinely flight plan/fly 152-154 at 65% power down low... but if you go high (up to FL200) and run it harder, the book goes as high as 174 KTAS. A more conservative 70% in a standard atmosphere is going to get you about 161-162 KTAS at 13.2 gph.

P.S. - Outrunning a Mooney depends on WHICH MOONEY. ;-)
 
hindsight2020 said:
You might wanna mosey on by to the 182rg vs 201J thread then, since the mooniacs are foaming at the mouth over there and you just suggested your 182 outruns a mooney. :D
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Point to this thread and I'll be glad to give my $0.01. :D
 
Bird Man said:
I've never used my cell phone in flight other then tracking GPS with downloaded sectionals on FltPlan Go...

So... What's the highest altitude the cell towers will work?

Text messages, 4G use to google something, make a phone call?
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I just switched to AT&T and was astonished to still see reception up to 5500. never had that with VZW. Now, I don't normally use my phone, but happened to notice as I went to put it in airplane mode to not kill the battery trying to get reception.
 
It's all over the place, I've seen it work low and not high, high and not low, work great, not work at all.


For the most part I just put my phone to airplane mode to save battery and not hear it make noises in my ANR headset.
 
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