Heartbroken student

Subhro Kar said:
Well trying a training in WA from TX is a tough sell IMHO.


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Not at all. Call and tell em u are looking to become a ppl as fast as u can and all losers around ur hometown says u need 60 hrs and can schedule u over 6 months.

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I mean you're not using the recording for a trial. So is it still 'illegal'?
 
Find another instructor and move on. I don't care how long it takes a student to solo. If they're still enjoying the experience and want to keep trying I'm going to keep trying to help them figure it out. I've never had one who didn't, but some took much longer than others. Didn't matter. They were filling their experience bank with every flight. You can never get too much of that.
 
That is the craziest thing I've read in a long time. There has to be more to it, like he is too busy or has a personal gripe against you. It's obviously not your flying, because that's why you train, to get better.

Keep at it dude, it's worth it.
 
Ravioli said:
Dang it, Washington is a Two-Party consent state so I can't tape the audio of the the call. Much less fun that way.

@denverpilot - you know telephony... any wiggle room for me on that?
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Telecom guy answer: I just make the phones ring. I don't care what you do with it.

Practical guy answer: If you're actually worried the guy has enough money to sue you, he probably doesn't.

Legal answer: We make people sign an employment contract that includes that everything on company devices can be monitored. Probably won't work for you. Consult a lawyer. :)
 
Not a good match, it's a blessing to move on.
That said, you indicated he "yelled" at you many times. I'm in my late thirties and am astounded at when is considered yelling these days. A few marginally stern words in a normal voice is considered yelling to many. I'm curious what the OP considers yelling.
I want a CFI to correct me in a manner that gets my attention. The CFI has a vested interest in your safety and you being a strong pilot. If I got a firm "watch your airspeed" on downwind I took that as a clear indication I'm not doing this right and need to make an appropriate correction in a timely manner.
Some things in the airplane require a gentle touch, others more forceful. The first few times doing maneuvers should be explanatory and gentle. If there a repeated errors which are safety issues or basic poor airmanship there needs to be a more definitive correction.
When I hear someone complain about being "judged and yelled at" a red flag goes up. Sounds like his style and your don't match. Please speak with a few CFI's and find one that you are comfortable with. - Good Luck
 
SkyDog58 said:
How did you end up with 53 landings but only 34 takeoffs? o_O

Did you count all of your bounces as landings but not takeoffs? :D
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Touch and Go's my friend :). MyFlightBook is what I use to keep track of time and it has distinct fields for Landings T&G and Landings (Full Stop). I'm a bit OCD when it comes to logging the proper thing. I don't count a landing unless it was to a full stop, even though technically a t&g is a landing.
 
Caramon13 said:
Touch and Go's my friend :). MyFlightBook is what I use to keep track of time and it has distinct fields for Landings T&G and Landings (Full Stop). I'm a bit OCD when it comes to logging the proper thing. I don't count a landing unless it was to a full stop, even though technically a t&g is a landing.
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That doesn't make sense in terms of explaining why you have more landings than takeoffs.
 
scorpio said:
If I got a firm "watch your airspeed" on downwind I took that as a clear indication I'm not doing this right and need to make an appropriate correction in a timely manner.
Some things in the airplane require a gentle touch, others more forceful. The first few times doing maneuvers should be explanatory and gentle. If there a repeated errors which are safety issues or basic poor airmanship there needs to be a more definitive correction.
When I hear someone complain about being "judged and yelled at" a red flag goes up. Sounds like his style and your don't match. Please speak with a few CFI's and find one that you are comfortable with. - Good Luck
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Well, what can I say. Speaking from memory, but again just one instance of "yelling": During a touch and go, once I have pushed in the throttle to "full open" during take off, I took my hand off the throttle lever, and he told me, "in a stern voice", if I see you take off your hand once more, I am going to superglue your hand to that lever. Not sure if you would call that yelling. But again, it would be wrong from me to say that he did it just on the first instance. I probably took off my hands 2-3 times befire since I was too tensed and scared. There are many more but as other have mentioned, I think even recollecting the sessions is a waste of time .
 
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Subhro Kar said:
Well, what can I say. Speaking from memory, but again just one instance of "yelling": During a touch and go, once I have pushed in the throttle to "full open" during take off, I took my hand off the throttle lever, and he told me, "in a stern voice", if I see you take off your hand once more, I am going to superglue your hand to that lever.
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Well, that's more extreme than my CFI's threat of duct taping my hand to the throttle during takeoff, but I disagree that he was yelling at you there. Some points need to be brought home sternly. That is one of them.

I guess I was lucky, as my instructor really only lit into me one time... it was well deserved, though, and made me fully understand the importance of my mistake.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
Well, that's more extreme than my CFI's threat of duct taping my hand to the throttle during takeoff, but I disagree that he was yelling at you there. Some points need to be brought home sternly. That is one of them.

I guess I was lucky, as my instructor really only lit into me one time... it was well deserved, though, and made me fully understand the importance of my mistake.
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But my former instructor only sometimes "unlit himself". But again, maybe I am too meek.
 
Ravioli said:
I'm tempted to call the CFI and ask him what happens if I start training with him, what are the stage checks, and what happens if things take longer than usual.
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There is no such thing as "longer than usual". Most, if not all, syllabi, assume perfection, which aint gonna happen.
 
Kind-of following this thread and watching (perked up when "bondage" came into the conversation :)) but, I think we've established a few things here:

1. The CFI and Student probably weren't a good fit
2. We haven't heard the CFI's side of the situation
3. The Student should take his money and find another CFI that will provide the instruction that will work for him

I've been one that doesn't mind being "yelled" at to instill an important lesson. But that "yelling" was different than a "screaming at", and more akin to a more loudly delivered stern comment. But the example of the stern warning about taking your hand off the throttle during take-off was for the student's benefit. That was a critical phase of flight, so instilling the right behavior was important. I don't see that as being a problematic statement, and if it were me, I would have countered with a, "Understood - won't let that happen again. But if it does, superglue will make operating the flaps a b*tch." :p
 
Salty said:
That doesn't make sense in terms of explaining why you have more landings than takeoffs.
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So let me further elaborate that since I don't bucket a T&G into the full stop landing category, so I also don't count it as a takeoff. Full stop landings and full stop takeoffs are counted separately.

If I did a stop and go, that would be a landing and a takeoff. A T&G is just rubbing pavement imo...sure it's a landing, but not a full stop one.

There are buckets on myflightbook for landings full stop, landings t&g and takeoffs full stop (probably called something different on the site but you get the point).

If I really wanted to know how many T&G takeoffs I had, I could just use the T&G landing bucket..

Here's a more verbose breakdown:

upload_2017-8-18_12-54-21.png

Takeoffs (any) are day takeoffs from a full stop (no T&G). Takeoffs - Night, same thing only at night, stop and go's are included because, well it's a full stop.

If it doesn't say Touch and Go, then the landing was to a full stop. So I have 226 T&G's and 207 full stop landings (433 total).
 
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Subhro Kar said:
Well, what can I say. Speaking from memory, but again just one instance of "yelling": During a touch and go, once I have pushed in the throttle to "full open" during take off, I took my hand off the throttle lever, and he told me, "in a stern voice", if I see you take off your hand once more, I am going to superglue your hand to that lever. Not sure if you would call that yelling. But again, it would be wrong from me to say that he did it just on the first instance. I probably took off my hands 2-3 times befire since I was too tensed and scared. There are many more but as other have mentioned, I think even recollecting the sessions is a waste of time .
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You are way too sensitive, lol. You need to knock that crap off, if you can't take instruction and yes, criticism without getting butt hurt you should probably just buy a boat, because the things your cfi is being "stern" about is stuff that can kill you if you don't master them. Instead of crying about it you should man (or woman) up and work on getting it right.
 
PaulS said:
You are way too sensitive, lol. You need to knock that crap off, if you can't take instruction and yes, criticism without getting butt hurt you should probably just buy a boat, because the things your cfi is being "stern" about is stuff that can kill you if you don't master them. Instead of crying about it you should man (or woman) up and work on getting it right.
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Oh calm down. First off, having your hand on the throttle is very good practice, but not doing it certainly isn't going to kill you. Also believe it or not, not everyone is the same. Some people get flustered when told sternly about things and that's fine - people learn in different ways. I for one am fine with it but that doesn't mean you can throw everyone into the same boat. Sounds like this CFI wasn't a good fit for the OP and that's OK. Nothing to do with the OP needing to "man up".
 
Caramon13 said:
So let me further elaborate that since I don't bucket a T&G into the full stop landing category, so I also don't count it as a takeoff. Full stop landings and full stop takeoffs are counted separately.

If I did a stop and go, that would be a landing and a takeoff. A T&G is just rubbing pavement imo...sure it's a landing, but not a full stop one.

There are buckets on myflightbook for landings full stop, landings t&g and takeoffs full stop (probably called something different on the site but you get the point).

If I really wanted to know how many T&G takeoffs I had, I could just use the T&G landing bucket..

Here's a more verbose breakdown:

View attachment 55643

Takeoffs (any) are day takeoffs from a full stop (no T&G). Takeoffs - Night, same thing only at night, stop and go's are included because, well it's a full stop.

If it doesn't say Touch and Go, then the landing was to a full stop. So I have 226 T&G's and 207 full stop landings (433 total).
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You've well explained why touch and goes don't factor in. So take them out of the discussion, and it still isn't clear why you have more landings than takeoffs.
 
scorpio said:
Not a good match, it's a blessing to move on.
That said, you indicated he "yelled" at you many times. I'm in my late thirties and am astounded at when is considered yelling these days. A few marginally stern words in a normal voice is considered yelling to many. I'm curious what the OP considers yelling.
I want a CFI to correct me in a manner that gets my attention. The CFI has a vested interest in your safety and you being a strong pilot. If I got a firm "watch your airspeed" on downwind I took that as a clear indication I'm not doing this right and need to make an appropriate correction in a timely manner.
Some things in the airplane require a gentle touch, others more forceful. The first few times doing maneuvers should be explanatory and gentle. If there a repeated errors which are safety issues or basic poor airmanship there needs to be a more definitive correction.
When I hear someone complain about being "judged and yelled at" a red flag goes up. Sounds like his style and your don't match. Please speak with a few CFI's and find one that you are comfortable with. - Good Luck
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"If you don't mind me saying so... I would like to politely note that the ground is coming up rapidly, and if you don't do something about that in the next ten seconds, we are both doing to die." ;)
 
denverpilot said:
"If you don't mind me saying so... I would like to politely note that the ground is coming up rapidly, and if you don't do something about that in the next ten seconds, we are both doing to die." ;)
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I'm sorry but that description lacks a particular degree of accuracy and precision. Would you restate it so that I can properly process the vital information you are providing as part of my instruction? Thankyewverymuchkindflightinstructorunit.
 
Caramon13 said:
Touch and Go's my friend :). MyFlightBook is what I use to keep track of time and it has distinct fields for Landings T&G and Landings (Full Stop). I'm a bit OCD when it comes to logging the proper thing. I don't count a landing unless it was to a full stop, even though technically a t&g is a landing.
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Actually it has :

Landings
Day Landings F/S
Night Landings F/S

As main database entries. So Landings certainly can and should equal takeoffs.

And 48 different other types of landings as Flight Properties.

Including "Landings - Whack" which I'm really curious about.

Others like "Soft Field" "Short Field" etc etc etc can all be tracked in there.

@EricBe - what IS that Whack one?! LOL.
 
Clark1961 said:
I'm sorry but that description lacks a particular degree of accuracy and precision. Would you restate it so that I can properly process the vital information you are providing as part of my instruction? Thankyewverymuchkindflightinstructorunit.
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My airplane! ;)
 
Subhro Kar said:
But my former instructor only sometimes "unlit himself". But again, maybe I am too meek.
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Maybe, this isn't a Comp Sci class. Sometimes things need to be escalated so they stick.
 
denverpilot said:
A
Including "Landings - Whack" which I'm really curious about.

- what IS that Whack one?! LOL.
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A whack is an undesirable way of landing hang gliders. This one is rather mild, a bad one can cause broken bones or worse.

 
Mtns2Skies said:
Oh calm down. First off, having your hand on the throttle is very good practice, but not doing it certainly isn't going to kill you. Also believe it or not, not everyone is the same. Some people get flustered when told sternly about things and that's fine - people learn in different ways. I for one am fine with it but that doesn't mean you can throw everyone into the same boat. Sounds like this CFI wasn't a good fit for the OP and that's OK. Nothing to do with the OP needing to "man up".
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I'm thinking a participation trophy might soothe this right over, and maybe the CFI could buy him a creamsicle latte afterward too.
 
The worst instructor I ever had: I was in my early 20's with a DC-3 copilot job for a few summers, in Alaska. After the second summer, I decided to go to a lower 48 school that offered DC-3 type ratings. I was a CFI at the time. The 65 yr old instructor called me every nasty name you can think of, every minute or two, for the week I flew with him. We usually had another student in the jumpseat and the instructor would often turn around and discuss my stupidity/heredity/etc. with whoever was sitting there. I had limited time and funds, this guy was the only DC-3 instructor, and I just wanted to get to the type checkride, so I just tried to ignore it until I got the signoff and checkride done. When I was leaving, I told the owner of the FBO/School, in the presence of my instructor, that he was the least professional and lowest quality instructor I had ever seen or heard of, and I would be recommending that my buddies in Alaska and northwest Canada look pretty much anywhere else for DC-3 training. The owner told me that it just this guy's teaching style, he didn't mean anything by it, etc. I just smiled at both of them and went home.
 
Personally I don't mind yelling when I deserve it. Just the other day in x wind landing I didn't neutralize the rudder and with piper it's not a good idea and immideitly veered to the left. I was told what the problem is, after next 3 landing of exactly same mistake, I was yelled at and I had that coming. Sometimes we are so overwhelmed that we forget what's the dude on the right seat told us few seconds back.

OP : right had glued to the throttle is to save ur life. I myself have the same problem in xw landing, I just grab the yoke with both hands. I am guessing a yell or worst like sudden go around command too close to the runway coming up next to teach me a valuable lesson

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While I prefer the calmer approach, some people respond well to yelling. However, there is a line between yelling and belittling/insulting, that some here obviously love to cross...
 
Salty said:
You've well explained why touch and goes don't factor in. So take them out of the discussion, and it still isn't clear why you have more landings than takeoffs.
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yeah I'm not following the math, either.
 
One reason that I can think of... When I was getting a bit tired and frustrated I would have the CFI demonstrate a Stop and Go, on the runway I'd resume controls and do the take off (refer to some of my other 'right rudder' posts) and then we'd do a loop.

Reasonably, I could log the extra take offs but not the demonstrated landings.

But yah, most of the time the number for little old PPL dudes like me should be close to the same.

And also, from many other threads, it is his logbook to keep as he pleases except when being used for............
 
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