Hawker runs off runway at PDK

That's a Beechjet, which I do not consider a Hawker.
In any event, that is a most unfortunate excursions. I do hope no one is injured.
 
Just a wild guess, but anytime I see a plane overrun a runway I start thinking either a long landing after missing the chance to go around, or an equipment failure. I saw that the reversers were stowed, interesting.
 
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Just a wild guess, but anytime I see a plane overrun a runway I start thinking either a long landing after missing the chance to go around, or an equipment failure.
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In part 25 airplanes, runway overruns are more often the result of a rejected takeoff, than a long landing.
 
I was at the airport when it happened but didn't see it. One of line guys saw it coming in and thought they were doing a fly by because they were so high and fast. Those who saw it estimated that they touched down with 2000' remaining.

Suck up your pride folks and go around if it doesn't look right.
 
Dave Theisen said:
I was at the airport when it happened but didn't see it. One of line guys saw it coming in and thought they were doing a fly by because they were so high and fast. Those who saw it estimated that they touched down with 2000' remaining.

Suck up your pride folks and go around if it doesn't look right.
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Aw, come on. He got it stopped on airport property. Some of us consider that a good landing. ;-) Maybe not a great landing...
 
They say a good landing is one you can walk away from. Doesn't mention anything about the condition of your shorts.
 
Whenever I think of small jet overruns I think of the Citation at Bader Field, this sounds like the same level of incompetency.
 
Dave Theisen said:
I was at the airport when it happened but didn't see it. One of line guys saw it coming in and thought they were doing a fly by because they were so high and fast. Those who saw it estimated that they touched down with 2000' remaining.

Suck up your pride folks and go around if it doesn't look right.
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The company my wife works for fired their corp pilots after a similar event. It seems the pilots had been counselled before about their habit of liking to land long and hot. It bit them, they went off the end, damaged the plane, and cost them their jobs. Sherry had been on that plane at least a half dozen times.
 
It's just an extension of poor training. There's no excuse for landing hot.
 
Dave Theisen said:
I was at the airport when it happened but didn't see it. One of line guys saw it coming in and thought they were doing a fly by because they were so high and fast. Those who saw it estimated that they touched down with 2000' remaining.

Suck up your pride folks and go around if it doesn't look right.
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We have no idea what actually was going on to make the assumption that the pilots just landed long and fast.
 
Reminds me of the guys who took out the radar at Palomar. They were moving faster on short final than aircraft are allowed below 10K feet.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
Gee Henning, you mean you are supposed to pay attention to those little numbers in the checklists and gismos??? Or was this guy reading our Top Gun thread and expecting a wire???
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Speaking of wire, do you guys have that winch down landing system I've seen for rough weather where the crew hooks a line from a high speed winch to the lift point of a hovering Helo then yanks him onto the deck? I saw a video demo once at a boat show and it seemed insane but they told me you guys used a similar system onboard.
 
Henning said:
Speaking of wire, do you guys have that winch down landing system I've seen for rough weather where the crew hooks a line from a high speed winch to the lift point of a hovering Helo then yanks him onto the deck? I saw a video demo once at a boat show and it seemed insane but they told me you guys used a similar system onboard.
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The HH-65 has a gripper probe that extends and grabs a grate on deck once the helo is down. (watch at :39 in this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWoabEXt0F0) This holds you in place while the deck crew hooks up the tie downs. But when I was flying the HH-52 we just had a trap grid made of two layers of 2X4s which you dropped the wheels into. Not very high tech but it worked. It was only used when it was real rough, we were expected to hold the machine still while the deck crew got us hooked up. We could not land the HH-3F on deck as they were too big for anything the CG had. The Navy uses a winch down system on their Seahawks. I guess you just hold a little collective and the winch does the work......but then Navy pilots need all the help they can get. :D
 
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Ok - so this morning on the drive to work, this story was one of the headlines again. The article said that the pilot said he was "distracted by another plane," and "felt like he was under pressure to land," as well as that there were concerns about the brakes on the Hawker.

Ok, so I'm not a pilot, I only have 3 hours in my logbook, but I will go with my initial thought when I first heard about this incident (accident?). Go around.

Heard it on WSB but I don't see it on any websites yet.
 
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WTF is he doing in a command seat of that airplane? Who the hell hired him and why? Why is there a great strive to hire the incompetent?
 
Henning said:
WTF is he doing in a command seat of that airplane? Who the hell hired him and why? Why is there a great strive to hire the incompetent?
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Well, I wasn't going to go that far, but if I, with 3 hours, would have gone around.............
 
It goes way further than that, he is stating that he was not in command flat out. Basically he is never in command.
 
hopmedic said:
Well, I wasn't going to go that far, but if I, with 3 hours, would have gone around.............
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You would have gone around because of lack of experience. For the private pilot, the rule of thumb is, it is always safer to go around if things are just the slightest bit out of wack, which is a great rule of thumb. This mentality doesn't fly in the corporate or commercial world. Thats not to say people just barrel in aircraft no matter what, but you are held to a higher standard. You are expected to have the ability and skill to approach the airport properly. Plus, going around for every little thing costs money when you burn Jet-A. These are all things that are learned when you stop flying for fun, and are flying for a job. Kinda takes the warm and fuzzies away. That being said, nobody is going to tell me what to do when it comes to PIC decisions. its my ticket, my responsibility, and my job to get my cargo whether its warm bodies or packages, to the destination safely.

There is no reason for him to have gone around. He still should have had the distance to stop even using that much runway. Max landing distance for that plane is a tad over 3500ft. That number is also calculated without the use of reversers. He landed on a 10,000ft runway if I remember correctly.

What he shouldn't have done is let somebody outside of the cockpit fly the plane for him. Very very rookie mistake. Usually when you hear about pilots being rushed, it comes from within the cabin, the owner, or customers on your plane are rushing you to get there. I don't think I have ever read a report where a pilot felt rushed from another aircraft coming into the same airport. If he wanted to beat the aircraft to the airport thats fine, we do that all of the time, but it never leads us to being behind the airplane to allow mistakes. This pilot should have never been in the left seat. He let another pilot fly his plane for him and this is the end result. Absolutely horrible judgement. This is what happens when you cant handle a little extra workload and you simply get behind the airplane.
 
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It's a 6,001' runway. If you're not down in the first half (for whatever reason), the correct command decision would be go around.
 
Oops thats my bad, misread the airport. With that amount of runway you're cutting it way too close for no reason.

Well even if you were down in the first half, you wouldn't make it in the Hawker. But if he is correct in saying he touched down within the first 25-35% of the runway, he would have barely had enough according to the AFM.
 
Inverted said:
You would have gone around because of lack of experience. For the private pilot, the rule of thumb is, it is always safer to go around if things are just the slightest bit out of wack, which is a great rule of thumb. This mentality doesn't fly in the corporate or commercial world. Thats not to say people just barrel in aircraft no matter what, but you are held to a higher standard. You are expected to have the ability and skill to approach the airport properly. Plus, going around for every little thing costs money when you burn Jet-A. These are all things that are learned when you stop flying for fun, and are flying for a job. Kinda takes the warm and fuzzies away. That being said, nobody is going to tell me what to do when it comes to PIC decisions. its my ticket, my responsibility, and my job to get my cargo whether its warm bodies or packages, to the destination safely.

There is no reason for him to have gone around. He still should have had the distance to stop even using that much runway. Max landing distance for that plane is a tad over 3500ft. That number is also calculated without the use of reversers. He landed on a 10,000ft runway if I remember correctly.

What he shouldn't have done is let somebody outside of the cockpit fly the plane for him. Very very rookie mistake. Usually when you hear about pilots being rushed, it comes from within the cabin, the owner, or customers on your plane are rushing you to get there. I don't think I have ever read a report where a pilot felt rushed from another aircraft coming into the same airport. If he wanted to beat the aircraft to the airport thats fine, we do that all of the time, but it never leads us to being behind the airplane to allow mistakes. This pilot should have never been in the left seat. He let another pilot fly his plane for him and this is the end result. Absolutely horrible judgement. This is what happens when you cant handle a little extra workload and you simply get behind the airplane.
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I understand the difference, and don't disagree with anything you said. But in my view, the biggest mistake he made once he got behind the airplane, which, correct, he shouldn't have done, and should be held to a higher standard than a PP, he let too much runway get behind him and put it down anyway. It shouldn't matter whether he was a pro or a private - by the time he put it down, he should have gone around.
 
Totally, my response was with the thought he was landing at PDX not PDK lol. So that is my bad. There is no question he should have gone around.
 
He should have never placed himself there to begin with. If he felt his approach was being constricted too tight by another airplane he should have just given him a 360 and a wave by way back where it all started, either that or expedited a dive for the 'slot' so he'd have time to stabilize before the bottom. Heck, he could have even thrown in a slip...
 
I'll bet if you've landed long and see the end of the runway rushing toward you you would think the brakes were not very effective. :D
 
EppyGA said:
I'll bet if you've landed long and see the end of the runway rushing toward you you would think the brakes were not very effective. :D
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Yep, every time I'm about to plow through the fence at the end of the runway, I start thinking: "These brakes suck."
 
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