It's probably not a bad idea, but I haven't seen a regulation to that effect, just some AIM recommendations. The ATIS at my airport includes an instruction to read back all runway assignments and hold-short instructions.
Harrison Ford does it again ...
- Thread starter Kenny Phillips
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Patco attempted to strike and the R&F didn't approve it. They held another vote and lied about the results to the membership, duping them into tossing their careers away.
bflynn
Final Approach
Sounds like a perfect example of expectation bias to me. I've done something similar.
Was it exasperated by age? Not necessarily. I understand that he doesn't fly as much anymore, so there might have also been a slight helmet fire going on.
Was it exasperated by age? Not necessarily. I understand that he doesn't fly as much anymore, so there might have also been a slight helmet fire going on.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Shame on you for making the assumption that the journalist responsible has more than two functioning brain cells and has devoted some time to researching the article. </kidding mode> I'll bet that the crash comes up on Google earlier than the SNA incident.
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Velocity173
Well, we as pilots jump on ATC when they make mistakes, we should hold ourselves to the same standard. Actually, so far I haven’t seen anyone on POA really admonishing Ford for this PD.
Mistakes shouldn’t be just dismissed because we’re human all no one died though. Someone could’ve died and there are those that continue to make mistakes who either don’t have the mental skills or they simply don’t have any attention to detail. Just like driving, plenty of pilots out there shouldn’t be in the air.
Same goes for ATC. One of the reasons my brother retired out of ATC early is the FAA’s attitude towards forgiveness (just culture). Perfect example, one time on position he was monitoring a student controller. This guy had been there for like 3 years and still not facility rated because he can’t remember the regs and can’t work anything other than light traffic. One day he was reading a non ATC book on position and my brother told him to put it up because he makes too many mistakes. His reply was “I have the right to make mistakes!” Sadly, that’s the attitude of a lot of controllers and pilots. We should be striving for perfection but unfortunately too many accept mediocrity.
Kenny Phillips
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PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
I don't think that is all on Harrison. That video is edited, not sure how long the time gaps are, but that Husky sitting there on a hot CA day, he could have been looking at CHTs rising to ludicrous levels. The second call sounds like a "hey, I'm still here" call. I'm fine with controllers talking fast, but they need to have proper diction and annunciation when doing so. This controller clipped the word continue and he should have said "continue holding short" rather than what he did say. It would have made it very easy to understand what the instruction was. Trying to please and not **** off a controller makes it much easier for a pilot to screw up in my opinion.
Anybody have the LIVE ATC link?
Pilots are never REQUIRED to read back anything.
Controllers, however, are required to obtain readbacks of hold short/crossing instructions.
Pilots are never REQUIRED to read back anything.
Controllers, however, are required to obtain readbacks of hold short/crossing instructions.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
The delta I fly out of wants read back of all taxi instructions including runway plus hold short instructions. Not sure what would happen if you refuse, but I know if you forget something like the runway on a taxi assignment they ask you again to say it to them.
danhagan
En-Route
My previous Tiger used to break squelch and we were chasing the issue for a year ... it was at "its finest" on the ground at the Class C ... it'd go from crystal clear to a total poop show in a heart beat totally random. Real easy to listen to LiveATC, but it might not represent the clarity in HIS cockpit. Clearance delivery at the Class C between or near the hangars is nearly impossible even with GREAT avionics ...
Lindberg
Final Approach
Was just thinking how these recordings always sound much clearer than what's in my headset.
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Controllers are required to obtain acknowledgment of ATC instructions / clearances. No requirement for a read back. Pilots can acknowledge these instructions with their call sign and the words “Roger, Wilco or Afirmative.”
Controllers are required to get read backs of hold short instructions ONLY. Additionally, ATC has to ensure that a pilot knows the runway assignment in a taxi instruction. Reading back the taxi instruction is a way to ensure that the pilot understands the runway assignment.
Anything outside of the above, is a “should” (numbers, vectors, altitude assignment, etc) local policy or controller preference
Oh yeah, if a pilot does read back an instruction or clearance, whether required or not, the controller has to ensure the read back is correct. In this case, I’m not sure the controller had time to correct the incorrect read back.
Controllers are required to get read backs of hold short instructions ONLY. Additionally, ATC has to ensure that a pilot knows the runway assignment in a taxi instruction. Reading back the taxi instruction is a way to ensure that the pilot understands the runway assignment.
Anything outside of the above, is a “should” (numbers, vectors, altitude assignment, etc) local policy or controller preference
Oh yeah, if a pilot does read back an instruction or clearance, whether required or not, the controller has to ensure the read back is correct. In this case, I’m not sure the controller had time to correct the incorrect read back.
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NordicDave
En-Route
Who hasn't voted in the Harrison Poll?
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/with-harrison-ford-in-the-news.125748/
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/with-harrison-ford-in-the-news.125748/
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
I was ready to totally blame him for this, but there are several things that I think make this more a team effort.
1) His hangar is on the North side of the airport. Not a lot of stuff over there. Tower, self serve fuel and his hangar. That's about it. When he landed, the controller told him to turn left, which doesn't make sense. That seems to have caused the initial issues.
2) They switched controllers and seem to have forgotten about him..
3) HHR has a habit of combining local and ground, even when multiple controllers are working. It seems to create controller workload issues.
4) That use of "continue" was pretty poor, given that they were dealing with someone who was already enquiring.
Eh, I don't think this incident is the one that says that.
HHR isn't as busy as most of the other local Class Ds. In fact, it is a contract tower.
No, he understood the SNA instruction - he just landed on the wrong surface.
1) His hangar is on the North side of the airport. Not a lot of stuff over there. Tower, self serve fuel and his hangar. That's about it. When he landed, the controller told him to turn left, which doesn't make sense. That seems to have caused the initial issues.
2) They switched controllers and seem to have forgotten about him..
3) HHR has a habit of combining local and ground, even when multiple controllers are working. It seems to create controller workload issues.
4) That use of "continue" was pretty poor, given that they were dealing with someone who was already enquiring.
Eh, I don't think this incident is the one that says that.
HHR isn't as busy as most of the other local Class Ds. In fact, it is a contract tower.
No, he understood the SNA instruction - he just landed on the wrong surface.
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
No problem. We have to be fair in evaluating these situations, despite forming preconceived notions about certain folks.
It is like when people use the Penmar golf course crash as "evidence" that Ford is a bad pilot. It is completely the opposite. He landed on literally the only remotely suitable surface in the event of a single engine out off that airport below a turn back altitude.