Hangar Queen Mooneys

[steingar]

So you guys know I have the mojo for a Mooney. Think I found a deal I like, but might yet do something else. What really struck me were the number of hangar queens. Aircraft that haven't flown in years. I think I've encountered more hangar queens that actual flying aircraft. Is this how it is now?

 

[bnt83]

So you guys know I have the mojo for a Mooney. Think I found a deal I like, but might yet do something else. What really struck me were the number of hangar queens. Aircraft that haven't flown in years. I think I've encountered more hangar queens that actual flying aircraft. Is this how it is now?

Mooney suck to work on = expensive labor wise. That and they are about the most complicated, leaky, fast, tiny airplane you can buy with almost 4 seats.

 

[ahkahn]

I still have a soft spot in my heart for a Mooney. I wanted one very badly until the wife compared the interior to a PA-32. We settled on a PA-32R with all of the speed mods. So, I get a healthy 6 seater for the speed of a Mooney. What I don't get is the fuel consumption of a Mooney... But I'll take the speed, room, and a happy wife.

Anyway, you can pick them up at a reasonable price (the hangar queens that is), but as always, expect to "invest" in maintenance. They're great planes.

Hangar queens of all planes have become the norm since fuel got expensive, maintenance got expensive, and the middle class diminished.

 

[Velocity173]

Well the service center that we've got in Dalton is always full of Mooneys so I know there are plenty of guys flying the things. They did have one in a few months back that was neglected. Spar was so cooroded that it required new spar retrofit for like 15K. Owner didn't opt for that so he got in and flew it away. Old planes require constant attention.

 

[LevelWing]

Mooney suck to work on = expensive labor wise. That and they are about the most complicated, leaky, fast, tiny airplane you can buy with almost 4 seats.

I agree that a Mooney can be difficult to work on given their cramped space but I haven't seen increased costs because of that. I also don't have any issues with mine, to include leaky anything (tanks or otherwise).

 

[MBDiagMan]

I too want a Mooney, but prefer an early M20C with Johnson bar gear and pump up flaps. Deals pop up on them due to people losing their medical or passing away. I think many of them, if not most of them, are indeed hangar queens.

I have room in my hangar for a high wing AND a low wing airplane. The high wing is already in there. I want the low wing to be a Mooney. Doesn't mean it will ever happen, but if it does, I expect there is a high likelihood that hangar queens will comprise most of what are found to be available.

 

[MBDiagMan]

Mooney suck to work on = expensive labor wise. That and they are about the most complicated, leaky, fast, tiny airplane you can buy with almost 4 seats.

I'm trying to understand how Johnson Bar landing gear and pump up flaps fall in the category of complicated.

 

[Anthony]

I mentioned I wanted to get a Mooney at my local maintenance shop. They all started running away from me.

 

[tmyers]

There is the Camp that loves Mooneys and the Camp that doesn't. I have a friend with one and it is a nice ride, fast and efficient.

I have helped work on them and they are a PITA to remove all the stuff needed for an annual.

I am not comfortable in a Mooney for the same reason I am not comfortable in a Corvette. They both have you sitting basically on the floor and my back just can't take that.

Good traveling machines if you are comfortable in one.

 

[bnt83]

I'm trying to understand how Johnson Bar landing gear and pump up flaps fall in the category of complicated.

All moving parts wear out. Look at Beech for example.

http://bonanza.org/documents/ABS Landing Gear Maintenance Guide.pdf

 

[AdamZ]

So you guys know I have the mojo for a Mooney. Think I found a deal I like, but might yet do something else. What really struck me were the number of hangar queens. Aircraft that haven't flown in years. I think I've encountered more hangar queens that actual flying aircraft. Is this how it is now?

Yes sadly it is. When conducting my search there was just so much junk out there.

 

[steingar]

Yes sadly it is. When conducting my search there was just so much junk out there.

Very sad state of things, though it does suggest that eventually the survivors, i.e. the airplanes we fly will become more valuable as the junk gets scrapped.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

They can't be that bad to work on, my mechanic owns a J.

 

[drotto]

The shop that is associated with the school I use is a big time Mooney service center. On any given day they have 5 or 6 either in the shop or waiting for room to get in. They have an amazing Acclaim there that had an unfortunate incident with a snow bank and needs a new wing from about 1/3 down the span out. Makes me sad, and has already been in the shop for 2 months. At least they re-attached the tail finally (they take them apart just behind the rear window for truck transport).

 

[brian]]

I mentioned I wanted to get a Mooney at my local maintenance shop. They all started running away from me.

Interesting. I brought an old Bo to my A&P and he met me with a big smile and a firm handshake. Seems like he is always smiling after an annual on the oldie...







It was the economy pushing more folks out of flying. You just happen to be in an area with a lot of Mooneys ...

 

[coloradobluesky]

You want a hangar queen. Get a Cirrus. 50% availability. They cant fix them.

 

[FormerHangie]

Very sad state of things, though it does suggest that eventually the survivors, i.e. the airplanes we fly will become more valuable as the junk gets scrapped.

I wouldn't count on it. Most old airplanes don't sell for very much, a few classics excepted. If you have the last flyable Piper Colt in existence I still don't think anyone would pay much for it.

 

[Anthony]

Interesting. I brought an old Bo to my A&P and he met me with a big smile and a firm handshake. Seems like he is always smiling after an annual on the oldie...

It was the economy pushing more folks out of flying. You just happen to be in an area with a lot of Mooneys ...

They said they didn't want to work on them to to the tightness of the cowling.

 

[dell30rb]

You want a hangar queen. Get a Cirrus. 50% availability. They cant fix them.

I don't buy it. I know the SR22 accounts for some ridiculous percentage of single engine piston IFR traffic.

The things that break on the J's are the cowl flaps, and the steering thing that gets bent when someone tries to tow it and exceeds the steering travel limitation. We had one with a cranky oil pressure sensor too.

 

[steingar]

They said they didn't want to work on them to to the tightness of the cowling.

The cowling is removable, though there are numerous fasteners. Things do look pretty tight in there, but no worse than my motorcycle or my car. Indeed, the Mooney engine compartment is spacious compared to either.

 

[Henning]

So you guys know I have the mojo for a Mooney. Think I found a deal I like, but might yet do something else. What really struck me were the number of hangar queens. Aircraft that haven't flown in years. I think I've encountered more hangar queens that actual flying aircraft. Is this how it is now?

Yes, actually it's been that way for a long time, I think they are just coming onto the market more as their owners die or finally admit to themselves they'll never fly again and they are trying to clear the rising costs of storage.

 

[Henning]

The big ticket items on hangar queens are corrosion and camshafts. If they (both airframe and engine) are pickled properly for storage, or sitting in the right dry climate and kept free of vermin, this isn't much of an issue; sadly this only accounts for a small percentage of the planes. If they have been stored properly, then typically a couple-three thousand dollars of maintenance gets them back into good flying condition.

 

[Bonchie]

Yes, actually it's been that way for a long time, I think they are just coming onto the market more as their owners die or finally admit to themselves they'll never fly again and they are trying to clear the rising costs of storage.

Unfortunatly, many are rotting away before the owners come to that realization.

There are a half dozen Mooney's scattered on my field, grown over. Never to fly again.

 

[yetti]

Mooney suck to work on = expensive labor wise. That and they are about the most complicated, leaky, fast, tiny airplane you can buy with almost 4 seats.

I am 6' 9" and fit just fine in a Mooney. I can see much better than a 172. There is nothing hard about them to work on. Basic mechanical skilz. They are fast and suck the gas. And the rear seats are probably more comfortable for me.

 

[Henning]

Unfortunatly, many are rotting away before the owners come to that realization.

There are a half dozen Mooney's scattered on my field, grown over. Never to fly again.

That is the sad fact of the matter, yes.

 

[steingar]

I too want a Mooney, but prefer an early M20C with Johnson bar gear and pump up flaps. Deals pop up on them due to people losing their medical or passing away. I think many of them, if not most of them, are indeed hangar queens.

That's pretty much what I've been shopping for (though I would prefer an E model for its fuel injection and increased horsepower). I haven't seen any deals from folks loosing medicals. I've seen several that have been out of annual for years.

 

[Henning]

I am 6' 9" and fit just fine in a Mooney. I can see much better than a 172. There is nothing hard about them to work on. Basic mechanical skilz. They are fast and suck the gas. And the rear seats are probably more comfortable for me.

True, nothing hard, but it requires a larger quantity of basic mechanic skills to access the repair, so that equals more time which translates into more $$$. I can personally attest that trying to short cut the access time and sneak parts out will end up in various amounts of blood loss.

 

[bnt83]

The cowling is removable, though there are numerous fasteners. Things do look pretty tight in there, but no worse than my motorcycle or my car. Indeed, the Mooney engine compartment is spacious compared to either.

I haven't seen the inside of a C but the M20J was like "YGTBFSM". It is as tight as a turbo 210 with about every standby gizmo they could install forward of the firewall. Yuck. The J is 24 volt too which isn't something I like either.


I'm sure they are really fun, but all the above is why so many are sitting, and the buy-in prices are so low. Get some quotes on tank reseal or bladder upgrades, a few radios, interior work and see what costs are if you believe otherwise.

 

[steingar]

I'm sure they are really fun, but all the above is why so many are sitting, and the buy-in prices are so low. Get some quotes on tank reseal or bladder upgrades, a few radios, interior work and see what costs are if you believe otherwise.

Mooneys are just airplanes. They work just like any other airplane. Airplanes have big-ticket maintenance like engines and paint. Mooneys just have an extra big-ticket time, which is tank reseal. Lot of them have been done, lots haven't. There was a really horrible AD for inspection of the prop hub, but from the looks of it most have been replaced by now.

Find me an airplane that doesn't have type-specific problems or ADs.

 

[bnt83]

That's pretty much what I've been shopping for (though I would prefer an E model for its fuel injection and increased horsepower). I haven't seen any deals from folks loosing annuals. I've seen several that have been out of annual for years.

Hope you find what you are looking for and fly the **** out of it and enjoy every minute of it.

 

[Henning]

Mooneys are just airplanes. They work just like any other airplane. Airplanes have big-ticket maintenance like engines and paint. Mooneys just have an extra big-ticket time, which is tank reseal. Lot of them have been done, lots haven't. There was a really horrible AD for inspection of the prop hub, but from the looks of it most have been replaced by now.

Find me an airplane that doesn't have type-specific problems or ADs.

They don't exist. Pick your poison, the cost of keeping similar capability aircraft flying around is a crapshoot as to which model will cost more over 10 years. Condition is far, far, more important than make and model. Fly what makes you smile, that's what you're paying for anyway.

 

[bnt83]

Find me an airplane that doesn't have type-specific problems or ADs.

EAB!!! (eliminates ADs anyway)

 

[Tom-D]

The cowling is removable, though there are numerous fasteners. Things do look pretty tight in there, but no worse than my motorcycle or my car. Indeed, the Mooney engine compartment is spacious compared to either.

Now that you have the cowl off. try getting a mag off. or the alternator out. Unless you have one that allows the engine to rotate 90 degrees it is an impossible task. the set in a can indented into the fire wall.

 

[bnt83]

Now that you have the cowl off. try getting a mag off. or the alternator out. Unless you have one that allows the engine to rotate 90 degrees it is an impossible task. the set in a can indented into the fire wall.

The original dual-mag installation on a J model probably has the drive cushions like the 177RG. Those cushions like to fall into the oil sump.

There is a cover/conversion that prevent those from falling into the sump but I have yet to see one.

 

[Lance F]

There have been some absurd and untrue statements made in this thread. I've had an M20J for almost 10 years now with over a 100 hours per year in type and very active owner assistance in the annual every year. I know this plane pretty well. Those throwing stones I'm afraid are only spouting hearsay and old wives tales.

I can have the engine cowlings, top and bottom, off in less than 5 minutes easy. Certainly no longer and probably faster than most PCB models. I can have the bottom piece off in another 5 minutes. There's a bunch of inspection plates to remove for the annual, but no more than PCB models. I have the Bendix 3000 dual mag. It's a little tight back there, but I've watched the IA take it on and off many times. Assuming the mechanic knows what he's doing, it's no big deal. I've personally taken the alternator off and on. It's located at the front of the engine, lower right side. It is easily accessible and changing it doesn't take long at all.

Yes, it's sports car seating. But that gives me about a 20% fuel savings over PCB models at the same airspeed. That's real savings at 100+ hours a year. That easily pays for finding a mechanic who knows what he's doing around a Mooney.

Maybe you can get into a PCB front seat easier than a Mooney, but once you're in its fine for most people. I'd say the same thing about a Learjet. Front seats are a little tight to get into, but well worth the effort.

That said I wouldn't buy a corroded hanger queen Mooney any more than I would buy such a plane of any type.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

That's pretty much what I've been shopping for (though I would prefer an E model for its fuel injection and increased horsepower). I haven't seen any deals from folks loosing medicals. I've seen several that have been out of annual for years.

I flew a super 21 often some time ago. No one, including the manufacturer thought they would be flying today. At that time most thought the good times would continue and betterand better aircraft would evolve. They didn't count on the middle class being decimated. It's not just older Mooneys sitting around, its all these old crates, Mooneys, bonanzas, etc.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Mooneys are just airplanes. They work just like any other airplane. Airplanes have big-ticket maintenance like engines and paint. Mooneys just have an extra big-ticket time, which is tank reseal. Lot of them have been done, lots haven't. There was a really horrible AD for inspection of the prop hub, but from the looks of it most have been replaced by now.

Find me an airplane that doesn't have type-specific problems or ADs.

I'm telling you, you will LOVE an RV.

 

[yetti]

I have sat in pipers and Bonanza and could not fly them due to legroom /seat placement. Mooney I can sit in easy. The mags come off just like any plane then you slip them through the motor mount. People just repeat things, but have never actually done them

 

[Dav8or]

The cowling is removable, though there are numerous fasteners. Things do look pretty tight in there, but no worse than my motorcycle or my car. Indeed, the Mooney engine compartment is spacious compared to either.

It is a bit tight. Unlike some of the armchair, internet Mooney experts in this thread, I actually work on my Mooney myself a lot. Mine dates back to 1966, so just like a 1966 Mustang, or Corvette, it needs work from time to time. Of the certified retractable planes, the Mooney is the least expensive to own, either manual (the least expensive of all) or electric.

The cowling does come off, but it depends on which era, or which model you are looking at as to how much it is a headache. In any case, they are all with the engine very close to the firewall, so there is a compactness there that the cowling has no bearing on. Also behind the panel can be cramped. I work on my Mooney and I'm really glad I have small hands. For me it's not an issue. For guys with big ol' green giant hands, maybe look at another brand.

As to the hangar queen issue, I agree above that it is fleet wide, but perhaps impacting the complex planes worse. Bottom line is, GA is in serious decline and it's pretty obvious once you get out and away from the prosperous urban centers and trendy destinations. People are quitting, or forced out these days and there are way more airplanes of all types available on the market than there are pilots that want them.

This can be an opportunity though, depending... IMO a Mooney (or any brand) that has very low hours and has always been hangared can be a total diamond in the rough IF it is priced accordingly and you are willing to take on a bit of a project before flying. A low time, always hangared airframe is gold IMO, however there may be ADs to comply with, rotten engines and props, as well as antiquated avionics potentially.

This is why I say "priced accordingly". It's a buyer's market, so offer accordingly. I kind of wish now that I would have taken on the hangar queen project, but I guess the right one never presented itself to me.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

Mooneys are just airplanes. They work just like any other airplane. Airplanes have big-ticket maintenance like engines and paint. Mooneys just have an extra big-ticket time, which is tank reseal. Lot of them have been done, lots haven't. There was a really horrible AD for inspection of the prop hub, but from the looks of it most have been replaced by now.

Find me an airplane that doesn't have type-specific problems or ADs.

If the prop AD you're referring to, and the one I just had completed are the same thing, it's literally a non-event. The mechanic pulled up in his truck, removed the spinner, inspected the prop hub, put the spinner back on, and gave me my sticker. Once he got started, I was cranking up 30 minutes later. It passed the test with flying colors.

We could replace it but why fix what isn't broken?