Gulf of Mexico Oil Rig Explosion

Sort of damning to BP:

"documenting BP's woeful safety record since 2007. According to the report, the company received 862 safety citations from June 2007 to February 2010, 760 of which were labeled "egregious and willful." How many such black marks did competitors Sunoco, Conoco-Phillips, Citgo and Exxon have in the same period? Eight, eight, two and one, respectively."
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Sort of damning to BP:

"documenting BP's woeful safety record since 2007. According to the report, the company received 862 safety citations from June 2007 to February 2010, 760 of which were labeled "egregious and willful." How many such black marks did competitors Sunoco, Conoco-Phillips, Citgo and Exxon have in the same period? Eight, eight, two and one, respectively."
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Yeah, but how many times did they get shut down for these violations? OSHA is just another tax collection agency. "Here's your fine..." "Ooooo... $10,000 fine to save $1,000,000..."
 
Why is it that the government was getting ready to give them a safety award?
 
Henning said:
Where is all the hay going to come from? There is no huge hay surplus in the country, it's what feeds our livestock during the winter. Consider the quantities we're talking about. He just used 1/2lb of hay to pick up a couple of ounces of oil. You'd need to pull all the hay produced in Kansas, Nebraska and Texas in a year to start cleaning this spill up, just covering the edges, as it is, and it's still pumping oil. It might be a solution at the edges that are heading for a beach somewhere, but as for doing a majority clean up, I don't think we have the hay to spare. Have they tried laying Napalm on it yet?
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Hay alone might not do it, for every crop of grain there is a crop of straw, for every field of corn there is a crop of stalks, and all that is just as absorbent and a lot of it just gets ground up and redistributed on the ground as a waste product. We grow a lot of grain and corn.

Some have talked about supertankers "vacuuming" the affected areas of the gulf, and separating the oil from the water as was done in the middle east. Anyone have any idea why has there been no action on that front? Is the so much oil in inventory that the tankers are being used as storage?
 
The other thing that kills me is that every time the media shows the cleanup, people are shoveling this stuff up by hand on a nice flat beach. Don't they have skidsteers down there? I'll gladly let them use mine...
 
Chip Sylverne said:
The other thing that kills me is that every time the media shows the cleanup, people are shoveling this stuff up by hand on a nice flat beach. Don't they have skidsteers down there? I'll gladly let them use mine...
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Yabut using a machine that's belching black smoke doesn't exactly improve the image that the clean-up is environmentally friendly, does it? :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Sort of damning to BP:

"documenting BP's woeful safety record since 2007. According to the report, the company received 862 safety citations from June 2007 to February 2010, 760 of which were labeled "egregious and willful." How many such black marks did competitors Sunoco, Conoco-Phillips, Citgo and Exxon have in the same period? Eight, eight, two and one, respectively."
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How much drilling does BP to in comparison to those other guys? Kind of hard to determine much from those statistics without knowing that.
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37413783/ns/gulf_oil_spill/

"We have not been able to stop the flow," BP Chief Operating Officer Doug Suttles told reporters. "We have made the decision to move onto the next option."

"This scares everybody, the fact that we can't make this well stop flowing, the fact that we haven't succeeded so far," Suttles added. "Many of the things we're trying have been done on the surface before, but have never been tried at 5,000 feet."

And the best quote

"We're confident the job will work but obviously we can't guarantee success," Suttles said of the new plan.

I would say he has a good obfuscation coach, confident without guarantee. Maybe he meant to say "we don't know if it is going to work or not, but trust us, we know what we're doing, we're professionals."
 
jesse said:
How much drilling does BP to in comparison to those other guys? Kind of hard to determine much from those statistics without knowing that.
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Very good point, I tried some googling without success.
 
Quote:
After its latest effort to plug the leak failed, BP officials said it may take until August to stop the gushing oil.

And in news involving other bleed-outs:
 

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Chip Sylverne said:
Hay alone might not do it, for every crop of grain there is a crop of straw, for every field of corn there is a crop of stalks, and all that is just as absorbent and a lot of it just gets ground up and redistributed on the ground as a waste product. We grow a lot of grain and corn.

Some have talked about supertankers "vacuuming" the affected areas of the gulf, and separating the oil from the water as was done in the middle east. Anyone have any idea why has there been no action on that front? Is the so much oil in inventory that the tankers are being used as storage?
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I brought that up, and I don't know if it's not being done or what. There are a lot of perfectly good tankers that are mothballed and waiting to go to the breakers because they don't meet the new double hull rules that could be put to work on this, but I'm not sure they aren't working on that front. I'm in Aus with a sketchy satellite, so there's a lot of info I'm not getting.
 
As someone who knows zippo about oil drilling it's amazing to me that there is so much oil and so much pressure that it can just keep coming out. Of course I'm accustomed to looking at these babies being used to actually pump the oil out of the ground. It's not like it comes out on its own.

pumpjackstorecom1.jpg


I know that there is a lot more pressure because the wells are deeper but it never occurred to me that this could happen. I guess it didn't occur to a lot of other people too.

Is there some estimate as to how much oil is down there and how long it would keep flowing if nothing works? Obviously there has to be a finite supply.
 
Steve said:
And there's no guarantee one or two relief wells will do the trick. They may just double or triple the leak path opportunities. After all, they were in a drilling operation when they screwed the pooch.

BP is getting to drill more holes without the normal review process. They are that good.
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Actually, the drilling part was done. They were completing the well which involves taking the drilling gear and BOP out and putting a wellhead on. Then thy put in the production platform and risers, or run a pipe to the main field platform and then put the well into production.
 
In my book its a drilling operation from the time they do the survey to the point the attach the production line to the well head. Until then there is no income.

Henning said:
Actually, the drilling part was done. They were completing the well which involves taking the drilling gear and BOP out and putting a wellhead on. Then thy put in the production platform and risers, or run a pipe to the main field platform and then put the well into production.
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Henning said:
Where is all the hay going to come from? There is no huge hay surplus in the country, it's what feeds our livestock during the winter. Consider the quantities we're talking about. He just used 1/2lb of hay to pick up a couple of ounces of oil. You'd need to pull all the hay produced in Kansas, Nebraska and Texas in a year to start cleaning this spill up, just covering the edges, as it is, and it's still pumping oil. It might be a solution at the edges that are heading for a beach somewhere, but as for doing a majority clean up, I don't think we have the hay to spare. Have they tried laying Napalm on it yet?
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You have been out of the loop for a while, and haven't seen all the hay barns full of last year's (and the year before) just sitting. Market stinks.

Maybe I ought to call my FIL and tell him to ring up BP.
 
Steve said:
In my book its a drilling operation from the time they do the survey to the point the attach the production line to the well head. Until then there is no income.
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Fair enough, then maybe BP should be pulled out of the operations decision making loop, because it was their poor decision making that lead up to this.... Funny enough, I was just out on the dock here in Cairns talking to a guy who just got here (not BP and on vacation) from that project. He said that they tried the dome and it failed, blown off. What's going to be interesting is to see what the long term ramifications on BP are going to be from this and how MMS isgoing to handle them from here on in. I wonder how many violations of BP's own ISO manual were committed in this event. I remember when ISO came to the oilfield and we all had to write procedure manuals (everything needed a "procedure", like 3 pages on how to run a needle gun, and it was up to the captains and chief engineers on the boats to write the manuals for each boat since they are all a bit different, then turn them in for "approval", though I was never quite clear on who was approving them and on what basis). It took months to do and was a big PITA. Everybody had shelves of manuals everywhere. I always wondered how and to what effect the whole ISO 900x program would be used and if there was any ramifications of violating your manual. It's kind of like an airlines OpSpecs manual, only with an airline, the enforcement body is clear, the FAA. Can someone explain who ISO is and what enforcement powers they have? Or was it all just an exercise in establishing and assigning blame in various court proceedings?
 
alaskaflyer said:
You have been out of the loop for a while, and haven't seen all the hay barns full of last year's (and the year before) just sitting. Market stinks.

Maybe I ought to call my FIL and tell him to ring up BP.
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Really? That's bloody sad. Hay was the only thing in agriculture I found that I could actually turn a profit on. I'd grow top quality horse hay, had the fields mixed with giant bermuda, alfalfa and rye, clean and nicely fertilized, bale it in 60# square bales and sell it to the hobby and race horse people down around Dallas and OKC. I had about 600 acres of irrigated land I'd custom work on shares (I took care of everything for 2/3rds the hay) and never had any left overs. I also had 100 acres that I round baled for feeding our livestock. It was a lot of work since I delivered it, but it operated at a decent profit. I guess the economy hit the hobby horse people too....:frown3:
 
Everskyward said:
As someone who knows zippo about oil drilling it's amazing to me that there is so much oil and so much pressure that it can just keep coming out. Of course I'm accustomed to looking at these babies being used to actually pump the oil out of the ground. It's not like it comes out on its own.



I know that there is a lot more pressure because the wells are deeper but it never occurred to me that this could happen. I guess it didn't occur to a lot of other people too.

Is there some estimate as to how much oil is down there and how long it would keep flowing if nothing works? Obviously there has to be a finite supply.
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I'm no expert either...but I beleive gasses in the oil contribute at least some of the pressure. More info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowout_(well_drilling)
 
Everskyward said:
As someone who knows zippo about oil drilling it's amazing to me that there is so much oil and so much pressure that it can just keep coming out. Of course I'm accustomed to looking at these babies being used to actually pump the oil out of the ground. It's not like it comes out on its own.

pumpjackstorecom1.jpg


I know that there is a lot more pressure because the wells are deeper but it never occurred to me that this could happen. I guess it didn't occur to a lot of other people too.

Is there some estimate as to how much oil is down there and how long it would keep flowing if nothing works? Obviously there has to be a finite supply.
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It's happened before. Had this not blown up, a petro geologist I know suggested it could be like Spindletop:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spindletop
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I'm no expert either...but I beleive gasses in the oil contribute at least some of the pressure. More info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowout_(well_drilling)
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Maybe I should offer a POA seminar on reservoir conditions and drilling/completion operations...

I had my own little blow-out last Saturday. We let it go for about 15 minutes to see if it would calm down. It didn't so we capped it. No biggie and no injuries/accidents. Not much of a mess even since the blowout was fresh water and natural gas. It gave me a reason to turn the well to sales and go home for the holiday weekend. I checked with the field and the well was still flowing this morning so tomorrow will be real fun.
 
Clark1961 said:
Maybe I should offer a POA seminar on reservoir conditions and drilling/completion operations...

I had my own little blow-out last Saturday. We let it go for about 15 minutes to see if it would calm down. It didn't so we capped it. No biggie and no injuries/accidents. Not much of a mess even since the blowout was fresh water and natural gas. It gave me a reason to turn the well to sales and go home for the holiday weekend. I checked with the field and the well was still flowing this morning so tomorrow will be real fun.
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Such a seminar would be interesting.

Edit: What errors did you find in the Wikipedia article? Or were the errors simply legion?
 
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On this we agree.

And the oil industry has nothing on the nuclear power industry when it comes to procedural/policy compliance requirements. Procedures are necessary because people are fallable and proper use of them mitigates the effects of that weakness.

From the information I've gathered the BP rep was in a rush to seal the well in. The only reason to rush would be economic considerations. I wonder how much money he saved the company. :rolleyes:

Henning said:
Fair enough, then maybe BP should be pulled out of the operations decision making loop, because it was their poor decision making that lead up to this....
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Course Offering: PEGN 505 Well control seminar
Instructor: Dr. Clark
Prerequisites: PEGN 310, PEGN 311, PEGN 361, PEGN 423, PEGN 424 or instructor's permission
Location: maybe 6Y9 or perhaps Windwood
Topics: Fundamental well control review, fluid properties review, hydrostatics and hydrodynamic well control, reservoir flow capacity, downhole systems, surface systems, human elements, regulatory agencies & requirements
Meeting Time: two (2) eight (8) hour sessions, bring your lunch and beer for the instructor
Course credit: One (1) credit hour if the instructor isn't feeling too surly about your participation
 
Clark1961 said:
Course Offering: PEGN 505 Well control seminar
Instructor: Dr. Clark
Prerequisites: PEGN 310, PEGN 311, PEGN 361, PEGN 423, PEGN 424 or instructor's permission
Location: maybe 6Y9 or perhaps Windwood
Topics: Fundamental well control review, fluid properties review, hydrostatics and hydrodynamic well control, reservoir flow capacity, downhole systems, surface systems, human elements, regulatory agencies & requirements
Meeting Time: two (2) eight (8) hour sessions, bring your lunch and beer for the instructor
Course credit: One (1) credit hour if the instructor isn't feeling too surly about your participation
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Of course, I have to ask two obligatory questions - can I take this Pass/No-Pass? Given that it's a 500 series course, I imagine it's graduate level; so there's no sections or labs, right?

Thanks much :D
 
sba55 said:
Of course, I have to ask two obligatory questions - can I take this Pass/No-Pass? Given that it's a 500 series course, I imagine it's graduate level; so there's no sections or labs, right?

Thanks much :D
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If you have to ask then the answer is no.

Graded only, course audits and pass/fail options not available.

Extra work and field experience required according to instructor's whim. If'n yer hardhat ain't dirty expect to have to participate in capping a well.
 
Clark1961 said:
If you have to ask then the answer is no.

Graded only, course audits and pass/fail options not available.

Extra work and field experience required according to instructor's whim. If'n yer hardhat ain't dirty expect to have to participate in capping a well.
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Is there extra credit given for having a Nipple Service sticker on yer hardhat?
 
Henning said:
Is there extra credit given for having a Nipple Service sticker on yer hardhat?
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Hmmm, maybe an exception to the "If you have to ask..." rule, hmm.

Okay, here it is: hardhats are graded on authenticity - if I like it then it is good and if I don't like it then it is bad. If you don't have a hardhat then I suggest taking the prerequisites.
 
Henning said:
I always wondered how and to what effect the whole ISO 900x program would be used and if there was any ramifications of violating your manual. It's kind of like an airlines OpSpecs manual, only with an airline, the enforcement body is clear, the FAA. Can someone explain who ISO is and what enforcement powers they have? Or was it all just an exercise in establishing and assigning blame in various court proceedings?
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AFAIK, ISO is a way to get a cool banner for your HQ and put "ISO 9001 Certified" on your marketing materials.

ISO can be summed up "Document what you do, do what you document."

The point is *supposed* to be a review of processes so that the organization can claim to be using repeatable, observable, processes that can be examined for "quality."

But after all is said and done -- it's a banner.
 
dmccormack said:
AFAIK, ISO is a way to get a cool banner for your HQ and put "ISO 9001 Certified" on your marketing materials.

ISO can be summed up "Document what you do, do what you document."

The point is *supposed* to be a review of processes so that the organization can claim to be using repeatable, observable, processes that can be examined for "quality."

But after all is said and done -- it's a banner.
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Yeah, kinda what I observed, it took months to write those damned manuals, and it takes at least 5 minutes a week to keep the dust off of them. The only good thing was I took a few pages from them and made a condensed "New Hire" manual for greenhorns, and a "Standing Orders Safety Brief" that I distributed to everyone who came to do work onboard to hand out at the safety meeting at the beginning of every job with a cover page that stated the brief was reviewed with them and would be followed by them. They had to sign that cover page and hand it back to me for my files. I never once saw anyone take down one of those main manuals and refer to it.
 
Apparently your observation holds true for BP, at least for those employees working the Deepwater Horizon.:mad:

Henning said:
Yeah, kinda what I observed, it took months to write those damned manuals, and it takes at least 5 minutes a week to keep the dust off of them. The only good thing was I took a few pages from them and made a condensed "New Hire" manual for greenhorns, and a "Standing Orders Safety Brief" that I distributed to everyone who came to do work onboard to hand out at the safety meeting at the beginning of every job with a cover page that stated the brief was reviewed with them and would be followed by them. They had to sign that cover page and hand it back to me for my files. I never once saw anyone take down one of those main manuals and refer to it.
Click to expand...
 
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