Grumman electrical failure. Crashes into Cessna on runway.

midlifeflyer said:
I keep hoping that there’s a “rest of the story.” Smell of burning insulation. Electrical smoke. Something to make it an emergency.
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Except that the video shows that the avionics and master switches are still on.
 
Even if my engine had seized, the first rule is try to make it not hurt. The rule is to crash into something soft rather than hard. I'd rather have bounced that thing all through the grass than to strike another aircraft.
 
asicer said:
Except that the video shows that the avionics and master switches are still on.
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I had electrical smoke come out of my panel right after alternator/voltage regulator work. It was a towered field (MRB) and I keyed the mike and told the tower I was returning and then shut things down. One nice thing about larger airports is there tends to be lots of clear space around the runways.
Of course, I forgot this was a mixed-use field and the weekend warrior CFR unit rolled as soon as I made my transmission and chased me down the runway.
I was afraid I was going to get drowned in foam. Turned the master back on and told the tower I didn't need all the help. They suggested I just stop there and let them check me out. I got a green light from the tower to taxi back to the shop.
 
flyingron said:
Even if my engine had seized, the first rule is try to make it not hurt.
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Second rule should probably be that if I'm having a bad day, try not to spread it around to someone else. If the choice is to an inanimate object rather than someone else, choose the inanimate object.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I was referring to both.

I did, btw, have a student who was convinced the prop would stop if we lost electric. So I shut off the master. He actually started sweating.
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Remedial systems training was in order
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Why was the pax recording the whole thing like a fkn spectator!?
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And then post it...hey! Look at me!! I was in an airplane crash!!

Pilot had to know he was filming. I sure as hell know when someone has their phone out.

Common sense **** the bed in more ways than one here.
 
AvNavCom said:
Reddit has been absolutely brutal to this guy. The comments are hilarious. The best comment: "How do you expect him to fly a plane in that condition? Left with only a running engine, a working airspeed indicator, HSI, VSI, magnetic compass, altimeter, fuel gage, oil temperature and pressure gauge, primary flight controls, attitude indicator and being caught in VFR with unlimited visibility, his only choice was to send that puppy into the ground NOW, doesn’t matter if it was straight into another plane."
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Finally! SOMEBODY gets it.
 
asicer said:
One of mags could have been replaced with a SureFly. Also, some Grummans have an electrically controlled prop (but probably not this one since I don't see a MP gauge).
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This was a traveller. I don't think the MT electric prop is available for that. And even if then, the electrical failure isn't a big deal
 
Hopefully the Cessna pilot wasn’t injured and will sue the Grumman guy. Some people truly should not be flying.
 
Does electrical failure in a Grumman affect the engine

Otherwise know your airplane..
 
midlifeflyer said:
I keep hoping that there’s a “rest of the story.” Smell of burning insulation. Electrical smoke. Something to make it an emergency. Not just panic over a dead battery or forgetting to turn on the alternator (I managed to do that once, in Class B airspace no less - forget to switch on the alternator, not panic).
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Hold on to your pearls tightly then, cuz a Frontier Airlines crew did the "pro" equivalent of this (rushing a nothingburger and landing with all AC purposely power off) and smoked a A320 gear, causing a fire, almost an egress emergency in Vegas months back had the gear fire got out of hand or they overran/lost directional control. The prelim wasn't even dry on the printer and people already had roasted the crew on the pro sites once the details came out of the "emergency".

Life is a population distribution; problem is everybody thinks of themselves as right-sigma. Definitionally, we are not. These tests in life merely illustrate that cognitive dissonance. Nothing nefarious, though it does present a social hazard to have so many people in positions of higher responsibility on the left hand side of Dunning-Kruger.

In fairness to the individual, as a society we do have to own the fact we accept this perversion due to simple economics (see law enforcement hiring, elementary education, apprentice level sectors of grey collar work [nursing, flying] et al). Can't blame the individual for dunning-Kruger, itself borne out of natural self-interest, especially in a society that chugs the myth of meritocracy like it's morning milk at the pre-school. BL, no buck no Buck Rogers.
 
When you think you have heard/seen it all... Thankfully no fatalities!
 
AvNavCom said:
Reddit has been absolutely brutal to this guy. The comments are hilarious. The best comment: "How do you expect him to fly a plane in that condition? Left with only a running engine, a working airspeed indicator, HSI, VSI, magnetic compass, altimeter, fuel gage, oil temperature and pressure gauge, primary flight controls, attitude indicator and being caught in VFR with unlimited visibility, his only choice was to send that puppy into the ground NOW, doesn’t matter if it was straight into another plane."
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Brutal or honest? Or maybe brutally honest?
 
Plano Pilot said:
When I flight instructed in the early 80's we started the students a PA-11, no electrical system or starter. That's what they flew until they soloed and had 15-20 hours.
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I've never flown an aircraft with an electrical system, nor have I ever crashed into a Cessna, is it a coincidence, or cause and effect?
 
Rene said:
I've never flown an aircraft with an electrical system, nor have I ever crashed into a Cessna, is it a coincidence, or cause and effect?
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maybe you're not looking for likes N subs?
 
Don’t think I’ve ever been that close to a preceding aircraft on short final. Looks more like the view from a glider cockpit behind a tow plane.

Makes you wonder what the plan was had there been no system failure.
 
flyingron said:
I don't think the MT electric prop is available for that. And even if then, the electrical failure isn't a big deal
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Depends whether it failed full flat or full feather. But even if committed to a landing, you only need to wreck one airplane and not two.
 
asicer said:
Depends whether it failed full flat or full feather. But even if committed to a landing, you only need to wreck one airplane and not two.
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There's no "full feather" for this prop. There's a hard mechanical stop before you get anywhere near there (full feathering is an option but not approved for a SE plane, the factory blocks the travel far before that). The thing fails (and just losing electricity isn't like losing the hydraulics in the traditional prop) to course pitch.
 
flyingron said:
The thing fails... to course pitch.
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I'm not sure which electric prop you have in mind, but when electrical power is lost the MTV18b stays at whatever pitch angle it was at when it happened. If you had it dialed down for a power-on descent when electrical power fails then a go around will have reduced performance along with other bad side effects.
 
N5450L
Airplane registered to current owner in May 2024
Owner is 69 years old
 
After watching the video again, I realized one thing is missing.

Unless I am missing something, I don't hear the sound of locked up tires.
 
Zeldman said:
After watching the video again, I realized one thing is missing.

Unless I am missing something, I don't hear the sound of locked up tires.
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Lectric brakes?? ;)

The 'electrical failure' that was of consequence was within the circuitry in the pilot's cerebral cortex.
 
I wounder if the pilot followed a check list and recycled the Alt/Batt switch and the breakers.... Glad no one got hurt and I hope we all learned something...

Now, back to our regular scheduled program..
 
Look at the video, frame 0:24. 10 kias over approach speed while on short final, 700 fpm descent. Altimeter reads 50ft high after they're on the ground. Even assuming he couldn't get AWOS without a radio (but could have used the cellphone that recorded the video), it shouldn't be that far off after the 15 minute flight from KGLS.

Too fast, too steep, altimeter reading high, following another plane in the pattern too closely. Hmmm...
 
asicer said:
What's the no-flap approach speed on that plane? (no electric = no flaps)
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POH says 75 MPH with any flap setting; 70MPH short final. Clean stall is 54 kts / 62MPH.

The frame I saw (0:24) shows a speed of ~93MPH on short final with a descent rate of 700 FPM.
 
Let's see. I've lost the alternator six or so times in the Navion because of the braindead hillbilly mechanics I used to have. I finally figured it out myself. I've also lost electrical in a 170 and an Arrow and never came close to having an issue. The Arrow I even managed to get back into IAD without a radio.
 
After takeoff a few days ago I noticed an alarm on my MGL flight instrument. Usually it gives me an information page for the alarm but this time it didn't so I was unsure of what the cause was. I thought at first it was an over voltage alarm (this instrument gives flight info but has a backup volt indication that usually reads a bit high as checked by a meter) but that wasn't the case. Engine & airplane were performing as usual so I circled the field and landed. No reason to be concerned as far as I could tell.

It appears the fuel probe has failed and the alarm was for fuel levels reading below the minimum setting. My fuel tank is translucent and I had visually checked the fuel before takeoff (one hour and reserve on board). Still when the alarm went off it was time to land and find out why ...
 
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