Grumman Cougar down 11/1/20

[3393RP]

The Cougar is a nice light twin, but with two 160 HP engines is a bit underpowered. There aren't many in the GA fleet, I think less than 100.

This crash is unfortunately one that will be probably repeated as winter weather moves across the US. It's a shame when pilots with rusty instrument skills (another article I found stated this) choose to press on to their destinations, even when forecasts make it clear the decision to do so is questionable.

The airplane was found 1,000' NW of Runway 25, and about 800' past the intersection of Runway 13/31. It appears the pilot lost control after initiating a go around from the Runway 25 ILS approach.

KJHW 012250Z AUTO 28020G30KT 3/4SM -SN BR SCT005 BKN010 OVC017 M01/M02 A2985 RMK AO2 PK WND 27030/2247 CIG 008V013 P0001 FZRANO RVRNO

KJHW 012256Z AUTO 27019G30KT 1SM -SN BR SCT005 BKN008 OVC013 M01/M02 A2985 RMK AO2 PK WND 27030/2247 SLP127 P0001 T10061017 FZRANO RVRNO

Quattrone's office reported early Monday that the plane lost contact with air control on Sunday at 5:47 p.m. Weather conditions at the Chautauqua County-Jamestown Airport at the time included light snow, fog and mist, according to information posted online by the National Weather Service.

https://www.goerie.com/story/news/2...tal-chautauqua-plane-crash-sunday/6159310002/

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/11/grumman-american-ga-7-cougar-n791ga.html?m=1

 

[sourdough44]

They just flew from NC. Looks like we’re flying into deteriorating weather, bad in several categories, then gusting to 30 kts. Most of us have some type of onboard weather, or other ways to stay abreast.

One needs the mindset, you never have to be ANYWHERE.

 

[muddy00]

The Cougar is a nice light twin, but with two 160 HP engines is a bit underpowered. There aren't many in the GA fleet, I think less than 100.

This crash is unfortunately one that will be probably repeated as winter weather moves across the US. It's a shame when pilots with rusty instrument skills (another article I found stated this) choose to press on to their destinations, even when forecasts make it clear the decision to do so is questionable.

The airplane was found 1,000' NW of Runway 25, and about 800' past the intersection of Runway 13/31. It appears the pilot lost control after initiating a go around from the Runway 25 ILS approach.

KJHW 012250Z AUTO 28020G30KT 3/4SM -SN BR SCT005 BKN010 OVC017 M01/M02 A2985 RMK AO2 PK WND 27030/2247 CIG 008V013 P0001 FZRANO RVRNO

KJHW 012256Z AUTO 27019G30KT 1SM -SN BR SCT005 BKN008 OVC013 M01/M02 A2985 RMK AO2 PK WND 27030/2247 SLP127 P0001 T10061017 FZRANO RVRNO

Quattrone's office reported early Monday that the plane lost contact with air control on Sunday at 5:47 p.m. Weather conditions at the Chautauqua County-Jamestown Airport at the time included light snow, fog and mist, according to information posted online by the National Weather Service.

https://www.goerie.com/story/news/2...tal-chautauqua-plane-crash-sunday/6159310002/

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/11/grumman-american-ga-7-cougar-n791ga.html?m=1

I wouldn’t call it underpowered. Unless your single engine over high altitude the plane has great performance for a light twin. Any plane picking up ice is probably underpowered at that point.

 

[3393RP]

I wouldn’t call it underpowered. Unless your single engine over high altitude the plane has great performance for a light twin. Any plane picking up ice is probably underpowered at that point.

I was referring to its sea level single engine climb rate of 200 FPM and 160 knot cruising speed. While I realize that's about the same as, say, an early Seneca, it's not much. It does have a decent useful load and it's a really nice airplane.

 

[woodchucker]

Wow. I lived in Jamestown during my high school years. Me and my friend would park the car at that airport and lay out on the hood plane watching. That was the beginning of my addiction.

 

[N1120A]

Quite a bit about this in the Grumman circles. Seems like they got bad icing. Should have diverted or never dispatched. It wasn't a lack of instrument skill though.

 

[Tantalum]

That sucks. I really like how the Cougar looks.. for a light twin it's one of the sexiest out there. It's like they took the best parts of the Duchess, Comanche, and Baron and combined them into one


**SIDENOTE: I thought I remember hearing that the Cougar does not have a VMC, red line.. that it stalls before such a condition occurs.. true?.

It wasn't a lack of instrument skill though

Doesn't look like it.. although I suppose someone could make the argument that "instrument skills" includes weather (namely ice) avoidance and management

 

[N1120A]

That sucks. I really like how the Cougar looks.. for a light twin it's one of the sexiest out there. It's like they took the best parts of the Duchess, Comanche, and Baron and combined them into one


**SIDENOTE: I thought I remember hearing that the Cougar does not have a VMC, red line.. that it stalls before such a condition occurs.. true?.


Doesn't look like it.. although I suppose someone could make the argument that "instrument skills" includes weather (namely ice) avoidance and management

Cougars are beautiful. It is a pity the Cougar 180/Tangara never came into being, cause that would be a monster.

That is correct about no redline - they stall 2-3 knots before red line. It is one reason some theorize they never made it in the training market - too easy to fly.

One can consider ADM a skill, but I view it more as a mindset and mentality that doesn't require skill. Skill may even contribute to bad decisions.

 

[EnRoute]

The Cougar is a nice light twin, but with two 160 HP engines is a bit underpowered. There aren't many in the GA fleet, I think less than 100.

This crash is unfortunately one that will be probably repeated as winter weather moves across the US. It's a shame when pilots with rusty instrument skills (another article I found stated this) choose to press on to their destinations, even when forecasts make it clear the decision to do so is questionable.

The airplane was found 1,000' NW of Runway 25, and about 800' past the intersection of Runway 13/31. It appears the pilot lost control after initiating a go around from the Runway 25 ILS approach.

KJHW 012250Z AUTO 28020G30KT 3/4SM -SN BR SCT005 BKN010 OVC017 M01/M02 A2985 RMK AO2 PK WND 27030/2247 CIG 008V013 P0001 FZRANO RVRNO

KJHW 012256Z AUTO 27019G30KT 1SM -SN BR SCT005 BKN008 OVC013 M01/M02 A2985 RMK AO2 PK WND 27030/2247 SLP127 P0001 T10061017 FZRANO RVRNO

Quattrone's office reported early Monday that the plane lost contact with air control on Sunday at 5:47 p.m. Weather conditions at the Chautauqua County-Jamestown Airport at the time included light snow, fog and mist, according to information posted online by the National Weather Service.

https://www.goerie.com/story/news/2...tal-chautauqua-plane-crash-sunday/6159310002/

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/11/grumman-american-ga-7-cougar-n791ga.html?m=1

Please show on a map of the airport where they found his plane.

 

[Kristin]

If you are shooting an ILS with ice on your non-deiced airplane, you better have the skills to take it all the way to the runway. Going missed back up into the ice is not an option in most cases. You probably have one shot to get it right. This is scenario where you are relying on superior skill to compensate for a likely lack of judgment.

 

[flyingron]

My neighbor just showed up with a Wing Derringer that he's been talking about buying for a year now. Now that shows you what you can do with 2 160 HP engines.

 

[asicer]

My neighbor just showed up with a Wing Derringer that he's been talking about buying for a year now. Now that shows you what you can do with 2 160 HP engines.

No fair comparing a 2-seater to a 4-seater.

I do wonder if they could have squeezed a bit more out of it if they went with tandem seating, though.

 

[EnRoute]

If you are shooting an ILS with ice on your non-deiced airplane, you better have the skills to take it all the way to the runway. Going missed back up into the ice is not an option in most cases. You probably have one shot to get it right. This is scenario where you are relying on superior skill to compensate for a likely lack of judgment.

If you are shooting an ILS with ice on your non-deiced airplane, you better have the skills to take it all the way to the runway. Going missed back up into the ice is not an option in most cases. You probably have one shot to get it right. This is scenario where you are relying on superior skill to compensate for a likely lack of judgment.[/QUOTE

 

[Plano Pilot]

If you are shooting an ILS with ice on your non-deiced airplane, you better have the skills to take it all the way to the runway. Going missed back up into the ice is not an option in most cases. You probably have one shot to get it right. This is scenario where you are relying on superior skill to compensate for a likely lack of judgment.

Plus you are probably not going to see the runway since the windshield will be iced over. Better have good peripheral vision to judge when to flair and then use it to keep the edge of the runway the proper distance from you on roll out.

 

[EnRoute]

[/QUOTE

According to preliminary reports, the pilot did not report ice but updrafts and downdrafts, light to moderate turbulence.