Grass strip help

farmerbrake said:
I had been told to inform the neighbors before when I asked a few other people.
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Most rural folks who engage in farming, ranching, growing...understand machinery. They know tractors, combines, manure spreaders, pickups. Not as many understand airplanes, but airplanes are just machinery and tools around the farm as well. Some of them, their only experience is the guy who they hire to come around in his Ag Cat and spray the fields.

Approached from that perspective you are unlikely to find much resistance.
 
They have rules and regs for starting a strip. Its not as easy as just building it. Research those regs.

Some of what is in those regs has already been posted. Like boundary markers and gradient of obstacles on ends and sides.

There are some hoops to jump through. You do not just plant some grass and start flying off it. There is more to it, even if its a private strip.

We have cows on property, but they have there own field that is fenced. We would never allow cattle on the runway.

Tony
 
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So when you say '10 foot buffer' do you mean with nothing on either side? Along the run way would be the gravel lane (the trees would be cut down, they're being a pain with equipment and such anyways) and then a crop on the other side. low crops such as alfalfa, soybeans, wheat/barely. So would you still suggest more than 50 feet with that?
 
No the sides have a gradient. Meaning for every so many feet out on the sides you go up by so many feet.
 
The regs start with a 75' field or strip. This is 75' wide. Then so many feet out you go up so many feet.

This allows for a botched landing. You should have no obstacles on the side.
 
Its not a problem until someone has a problem. Then everyone will be looking to see if you have clearance on the sides and boundary markers and such.

Just follow the regs and it will be fine. You do have to contact the FAA and let them know you are building this.

One reason our field is 100' wide. We have corn on the sides most years. This gives the gradient clearance needed on the sides. Most the time its not an issue because the crops are not in but a few months a year.
 
farmerbrake said:
So when you say '10 foot buffer' do you mean with nothing on either side? Along the run way would be the gravel lane (the trees would be cut down, they're being a pain with equipment and such anyways) and then a crop on the other side. low crops such as alfalfa, soybeans, wheat/barely. So would you still suggest more than 50 feet with that?
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Great plan, you are on the right track.
 
CTLSi said:
You need no permission to make a flat strip of land suitable for landing your craft on.
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Federally, no, just advance notice.

Locally, YOU darn well DO need permission in some localities even to construct a suitable landing strip. Still in many more, once you actually land on such a strip, your intent to use that as an airport is prima facie established and you can be very much in trouble of the local land use laws.
 
I'll help set it up. I had my brain melted at us at pathfinder school, particularly hard in landing zone setup. I'd like to actually use it once on my life
 
... hmmm... this is getting even more complicated. might not be worth it after all.
 
farmerbrake said:
Unfortunately none of our pastures are longer than 800 to 1000 feet sections... now if the barn weren't in the way it would be a different story.
anyways. The pic attached is where we keep our dry cows and heifers the yellow line runs parallel to a lane that we use to get from the road (500 feet to the right of the yellow line with power lines) to our two barns. The only other obstruction are power lines at the end of the field where the line ends on the Left, a spot I thought would be good for a hangar...
It would take some work to get things leveled off (darn... time I would have to spend in a tractor.... :rofl:) but I was thinking about 50 feet wide?
So it seems like most of you are using lawn mowers or brush hogs on your strips. How bout a John Deere 4995 mower with a 15ft head? Obviously I would need to be careful how soft the ground is.
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1000' is going to be tight for a 182 imo. You might want to re-think along the lines of a Maule or something much more STOL capable.

As far as the width, I would go 75' minimum of good smooth surface. It doesn't have to be perfect, just smooth and free of obstacles on the sides.

75' is two and half rounds with that cutter you have. I mow mine with a 15' Rhino batwing. :)

 
I too agree that 1000 is too tight, for anything really. That's why I can't use the cow pastures. Now to convince dad to give up a 75x2000 section of land.... haha
 
farmerbrake said:
I too agree that 1000 is too tight, for anything really. That's why I can't use the cow pastures. Now to convince dad to give up a 75x2000 section of land.... haha
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With that much land, you should be able to figure out something even if it means going to tundra's, taildraggers, or super STOL.

When I had our 180 up on 26" tundra's, a road would do, or a fresh plowed field if it's the right condition. Sand bars can work. I never did the hydro planing onto the sandbar trick. I sometimes wished I'd have tried when I had the bushwheels. It looks so ****ing cool when it's done right. I didn't have the cohones. :nonod:

Point is, you don't need a proper 'strip' if you have the proper equipment. You maybe could land on your place in different places throughout the year like a bird of opportunity as the land gets worked. In that case, getting out becomes priority over getting down. Check out a helio-courier...

oops, I went over budget maybe. :redface:


helio_courier.jpg
 
1600vw said:
No and neither does anyone else I know. This is not the norm.

Someone never doing anything like this might believe they need to disc thier runway and that the grass will be knee deep in a few days. Its just not like that.

Most summers are so dry the grass turns brown and stops growing. This year has been a green year.

Tony
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It is in Texas.:rofl: The land is unproductive enough you have to maximize the useage.
 
farmerbrake said:
I too agree that 1000 is too tight, for anything really. That's why I can't use the cow pastures. Now to convince dad to give up a 75x2000 section of land.... haha
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If you can swing the money for a Katmai 182, you could get in and out of 1000' easy.:yes:
 
1600vw said:
They have rules and regs for starting a strip. Its not as easy as just building it. Research those regs.

Some of what is in those regs has already been posted. Like boundary markers and gradient of obstacles on ends and sides.

There are some hoops to jump through. You do not just plant some grass and start flying off it. There is more to it, even if its a private strip.

We have cows on property, but they have there own field that is fenced. We would never allow cattle on the runway.

Tony
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That really depends on where you live. On our ranch in TX there was literally zero anyone had to say about it. Me being gone on 28 day hitches made it so we could hay the runway.
 
I have always Wanted to get my tail dragged endorsement
 
1600vw said:
They have rules and regs for starting a strip. Its not as easy as just building it. Research those regs.
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Not the FAA. You might have state or local regs but you can mow a field and land on it all day (and night) long with the blessing of the FAA as long as you fill out form 7460-1 and send it to them in compliance with the required lead time.

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/form/faa7460_1.pdf

As someone mentioned before, they can't say no. All they can do is list you as "objectionable" if they don't like your location or the fact that you have a large transmission power line crossing the airstrip at midfield! (I've seen one and, actually, it was perfectly safe).

1600vw said:
Some of what is in those regs has already been posted. Like boundary markers and gradient of obstacles on ends and sides.
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Again, maybe state and local authorities require that, but no such things are required by the FAA. Recommended sure, but not required. It's not even required for publicly owned, public use airports. The grass strip I used to manage didn't have the required gradients or obstacle clearance in any direction.

1600vw said:
There are some hoops to jump through. You do not just plant some grass and start flying off it.
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Actually, yes you can and I have. Actually, I didn't even plant some grass. I just filed a 7460-1; mowed; rolled; walked it to make sure there weren't any holes...and flew off of it many times. I had no markings, it was easy to see where the grass was cut from the air and I never invited anyone else.

Your regulation issues must be issues of Illinois. In Missouri, outside of the major metropolitan areas, it's pretty much the wild west (in a redneck sort of way). Not sure how the OP will fare in Pennsylvania.
 
Here's an 80 acre parcel that I used to own in Perry County, MO. That upper field is over 3,600' long from the south line to where it begins to bend back east at the north end. It's flat as a flitter and I occasionally mowed about 1,500' of it and landed on it numerous times. I'd also landed on it occasionally after it was hayed. Always wanted to build a house and hangar on it but the area was a bit more redneck than I could tolerate. Sold it last April. It was kinda sad to see it go.

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Heheh, Perry County, not quite as inbred as Arkansas, but working hard to catch up! :rofl:
 
So many conflicting statements here... you are required, you aren't, it's recommended, it's easy, it's hard. I think I'll go to a few of the guys who have strip around and ask them what I need to do.
My plan would be to buy a plane and rent a hangar for a year or so while we construct a runway. Hopefully in that time dad would be able to get his license with the plane based on the airport, then bring it to the farm and really start enjoying things. This is all best case scenario
 
I think you are getting consistent advice that the FAA doesn't much care unless you're creating some airspace conflict.
You have to check with your state DOT.
You have to check with your county.
If you are in an incorporated town or township you may have to check with them.
Like politics, it's all local.
You are well advised to check with local strip operators, but keep in mind that if they have been around for a long time they are probably grandfathered and they may not be current on requirements.
 
I think you are getting consistent advice that the FAA doesn't much care unless you're creating some airspace conflict.
You have to check with your state DOT.
You have to check with your county.
If you are in an incorporated town or township you may have to check with them.
Like politics, it's all local.
If you don't want to get everyone alerted, you may have to hire someone to do the search for you. That is in case you decide to ignore everyone and just put in a strip on your own you may be able to plead ignorance. Won't be of any help but may make you feel better.
You are well advised to check with local strip operators, but keep in mind that if they have been around for a long time they are probably grandfathered and they may not be current on requirements.
 
txflyer said:
Nah, you just need some oil.

Oil makes scrub brush land and the cattle business very productive. :goofy:
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Unless you use the oil money to buy hay, it doesn't increase production one bit, the cattle can't feed directly off oil or cash.
 
Henning said:
Unless you use the oil money to buy hay, it doesn't increase production one bit, the cattle can't feed directly off oil or cash.
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No no no.

You grow hay and use the oil money for 100LL to fly around and sell the hay and playboy around. :D

But seriously, a counterpoint to your thinking is oil money enables farmers to put more $$$$ into their land, thus increasing productivity all around. :yesnod:
 
txflyer said:
No no no.

You grow hay and use the oil money for 100LL to fly around and sell the hay and playboy around. :D

But seriously, a counterpoint to your thinking is oil money enables farmers to put more $$$$ into their land, thus increasing productivity all around. :yesnod:
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Not as much as if they would put water on their land.;)
 
Henning said:
Not as much as if they would put water on their land.;)
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We've really sidetracked and trashed OP's thread, but your welcome to come on down and see all the improvements we've made over the years with what little production money we have.

I've dug tanks and installed wells (some solar) with ground water to tanks for cattle that otherwise would not be there. It utilizes the strategic positioning for cattle so that they have no more than 1/2 mile to walk to water. And we're not susceptible to drought for cattle water.

This increases fat production, which is what the feeder biz is all about. Converting fuel (grass) to fat as hard as you can. :yesnod:
 
farmerbrake said:
So many conflicting statements here... you are required, you aren't, it's recommended, it's easy, it's hard. I think I'll go to a few of the guys who have strip around and ask them what I need to do.
My plan would be to buy a plane and rent a hangar for a year or so while we construct a runway. Hopefully in that time dad would be able to get his license with the plane based on the airport, then bring it to the farm and really start enjoying things. This is all best case scenario
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There is "creating an airport and getting it on the chart" which is one thing with rules and limits and forms and... Then there is "landing on the back 80 when you feel like it and keeping the airplane in the barn" which requires nothing except enough room for your airplane as long as there are no local rules forbidding it.
 
FarmerBrake,

What kind of soil do you have? Loamy/sandy or clayey? There's a huge difference in how much slope/drainage you need between the two.

My hometown grass strip is in a Mississippi River bottom field with nice, fertile, sandy loam. It's dead flat with zero slope or drainage and yet, unless there was a recent monsoon, it's never soft. I've landed there the day after a 2" rain and it's fine.

The grass strip that I managed, OTOH, is built in an area of more clayey soils. It has a nice crown and ditches, etc., and still gets softer after a rain than the dead flat field 35 miles NE in the river bottom. The taxiway isn't crowned and, in fact, has a bowl in it. During a wet spring you sometimes can't get from the hangars to the runway for days at a time...too wet. So wet a ZTR will get stuck in it. Clay doesn't drain...at least SE MO clay doesn't.

The amount of money you'll need to spend on grading and drainage is largely a function of soil type.

FWIW
 
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We have silty loam soil around here (that's what pap says at least). Drains pretty good I think, but then again it's hard to tell when you go a few weeks without rain and then get 1.5"in a day and it soaks it right up.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
There is "creating an airport and getting it on the chart" which is one thing with rules and limits and forms and... Then there is "landing on the back 80 when you feel like it and keeping the airplane in the barn" which requires nothing except enough room for your airplane as long as there are no local rules forbidding it.
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Yeah I don't care about getting put on a sectional.... which I guess I should have mentioned earlier. I didn't think I would need much to do that. Just county permission. And my great uncle is the township supervisor, so that shouldn't be much of an issue.
 
farmerbrake said:
So many conflicting statements here... you are required, you aren't, it's recommended, it's easy, it's hard.
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You have one guy making all the drama. It is not that difficult.
 
3393RP said:
You have one guy making all the drama. It is not that difficult.
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Egggxactly

farmerbrake said:
Yeah I don't care about getting put on a sectional.... which I guess I should have mentioned earlier.
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Having it on the sectional provides a safety valve for your fellow aviators in case they have an emergency when near/over your field (and if there are no other airfields nearby).

I would encourage you to try to get it on the sectional but only if your state has an indemnification law for private airport owners. Missouri does, Michigan just passed one (I believe), I'm not sure about Pennsylvania.

You might provide another pilot a safe port in a storm sometime and wouldn't that be cool.
 
timwinters said:
Egggxactly



Having it on the sectional provides a safety valve for your fellow aviators in case they have an emergency when near/over your field (and if there are no other airfields nearby).

I would encourage you to try to get it on the sectional but only if your state has an indemnification law for private airport owners. Missouri does, Michigan just passed one (I believe), I'm not sure about Pennsylvania.

You might provide another pilot a safe port in a storm sometime and wouldn't that be cool.
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Guess I didn't think of it like that. This is why I came here to ask questions. Thanks everyone! Now to put this plan into action I just need to find a plane! Hopefully I can revive this thread in a year or so to post pics!
 
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