Got Scammed on “Checkout” flight - Advice?

I have well over 200 hours flying behind G1000. As mentioned, the little 20-some yr old punk CFI probably had less time in the make/model than I did. My problem was more so the fact of feeling like I was getting taken advantage of rather than the checkout itself! I should’ve put a halt to it but I let it go, lesson learned

How many hours in a 172 in the past 12 months, 6 months, and 3 months though?

I have lots and lots of Warrior, 206, 210, citabria, and chieftain time, but I would require a good thorough check out and POH review before let loose in any of them, because none of those hours are curent. So lets say a 500 hour 22 year old is checking me out in one of them. Well i am twice their age exactly, and have over 7740 hours. Does that matter? Not really. For that check out ride I am just there to learn what I forgot, and hopefully demonstrate that I am still competent at flying that type. It's up to them to decide whether i am, and also up to them how much time it takes. Could be 1 hour, maybe 7.
 
I fly with a 430w and now avidyne550 and I bet it would take me better part of 2 hours to get acquainted with a g1000.


I would probably need about 309.6 hours to get the G1000 down, and 85 minutes for the 172 itself, despite my lack of time on type, so the 85 minutes maybe way off.
 
I have well over 200 hours flying behind G1000. As mentioned, the little 20-some yr old punk CFI probably had less time in the make/model than I did. My problem was more so the fact of feeling like I was getting taken advantage of rather than the checkout itself! I should’ve put a halt to it but I let it go, lesson learned

If this accurately reflects your attitude conveyed during the flight, I’d venture to guess he had an equally low opinion of you. This has “I’ve been flying since before you were born, you can’t teach me anything” vibe.
 
Back when I was running a flight school with 172s, assuming the pilot was competent, we'd have less than a hour on the hobbs for a rental checkout. Perhaps the instructor wasn't comfortable with how you were handling it? And thought more time was needed...Two sides to all stories and all...
I was thinking this...or perhpas more likely the CFI was just a youngster &/or just no able to think for themselves.....just going the the wrote motions required for "checkout"... regardless of performance....
or perhaps the requirement is 3 hours for everyone no matter what...
 
To the OP: you DO transmit a bad vibe. I could brag “I have 10,000 hours”. Their 350K aircraft. Their call.

Better to purchase one if you don’t put up with checkouts.
And, I hope you do fly well. Occasionally, just occasionally, I get a BFR Who I just cannot sign off.
:(
 
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So, with that many hours, I'd have thought that one would know that rental checkout flights can end up like that. They don't know you from Adam.

Rules of thumb for checkouts - ask for a plan of flight ahead of time, ask what to expect for standards, don't tell them how much time you have or brag ahead of time...

Study up ahead of time, be extra prepared for new to you frequencies and such and don't give them anything to ding you on.
 
A few weeks ago, I got called to the airport to give a cub ride. I met the passenger, a pilot, kid of a friend of the owner from out of town. So I ask him about his experience. Former fighter demo pilot. Former corporate pilot. Current airline pilot. CFII. MEI. Ok, well how much tailwheel time? A couple thousand hours. How much J3 time? 50 hours. Ok... We agree that I am PIC, but unless something goes really sideways, I'll be along for the ride. It didn't matter that he was immensely more qualified than me (and way younger and better looking), as far as insurance was concerned I'm allowed to be PIC and he's not. And he got it.

You know what? He wasn't a dick and we had a great time landing on little grass strips. And he even bought me lunch.
 
1. As many have already said, checkouts are standard. If you want to rent my stuff, I can come up with whatever rules I want in order for you to borrow it.
2. You knew (or should have known) the rental rate going in. So you can't complain about the $260/hour.
3. My big point here:

One of the first "real-world" lessons that every CFI learns, is that EVERYONE is a great pilot - in their own minds. It seems like every pilot I do a Flight Review with, when we're talking beforehand, might say "I'm a pretty good stick and rudder guy, but maybe my avionics knowledge is a little weak". And then of course, they can't land on centerline or hold their airspeed in a climb or whatever. EVERYONE's opinion is very high of themselves, so as a result I just plain don't believe their self-assessment - we will test it in the air and I'll make up my own mind.

Logbook fraud, and outright embellishing of experience happens, and more frequently than you think. So "I have 200 hours in a G1000" doesn't mean anything to me unless you can prove it.

I've found that the best pilots are the humble ones. The worst pilots are the ones that are deceiving themselves, and loudly brag to others.

I remember one example of a great pilot from my early instructing days. Now, I had about 1000 total hours, but only been a CFI for a few months. A guy shows up on the schedule for a rental checkout in a 172. We meet and he humbly says "I wasn't sure what all you needed to see, so I brought all my logbooks". Okay, I take a look. These things go back a ways - he flew helicopters, fixed wing, airline, corporate, just every kind of flying you can imagine. 30,000 hours or so. And here he is getting checked out in a 172 with a new CFI, me. He could have easily acted like the OP and bragged about all his experience, and how he shouldn't have needed a checkout, etc. But no, he did exactly the opposite.

He looked right at me and said "I know I have a lot of experience. But it's been a while since I've flown a 172. So just pretend I don't know anything, and just tell me what I need to do to be safe." We went and flew. It may have been a while since he flew a 172, but you wouldn't know it. Smooth on the controls, efficient in movements, no wasted energy. For the last landing we decide to make it a power-off 180, Commercial style. If I recall correctly, he even said he'd never done one like that. And as most CFIs know, power-off 180's usually involve a lot of slipping and S-turns and stretching the glide and all kind of tricks to try to make that spot the first time. This guy just flew a normal pattern, a little tighter but flaps at the same points as normal, smooth motions, speeds the same, no drama, no nothing, and put it exactly on the spot like he'd been practicing for a checkride.

That day I learned that the people who really have the skills, don't need to tell anyone - it will quickly become obvious.
 
This short three minute video explains the fact that having a lot of hours don't mean you can't screw up. This one is pretty hard to believe ...

 
Years ago I was in Albany NY for work for a month. Wife was working in Burlington,VT. There were a number of such split couples. So I figured, get checked out, and fly over on weekends. I could get 3 others and split the cost.

Got out the yellow pages (I DID say it was years ago) and started calling FBOs. Most were out of business. Finally got one.

Now, at the time I was around 1500 hours, Com ASMEL, IA, RH, G, and non-current CFI ASE, IA, RH, G. So they start. I would need a Day VFR checkout of a MINIMUM of 3 hours. Then a Night VFR checkout, also a minimum of 3 hours. AND an IFR checkout of a minimum of 3 hours. So 9 HOURS of "checkout" to rent day/night/IFR.

No thanks. I asked and they said all the FBOs required the same. So at least I figured out why all the others were out of business.

I could see a bit more of a check out in a G1000. I did a VFR checkout in a DA-40/G1000 in Hawaii in a 1.7 cross country (also a checkout to fly island to island). And then was IFR checked out in 2x 1.3 hour flights, one of which was an actual check ride.
 
Their plane, their rules, but some places and some CFIs take themselves WAY too seriously. When I was regularly instructing and doing checkouts, my goal was to make sure you were safe, that's it. I didn't necessarily care of you could do steep turns to +50/-50, or if you could flawlessly execute a chandelle; I just cared if you could get the airplane off the ground and back on the ground without denting it (and operate it in the air without damaging anything). Typically, unless it was a really unique airplane or a really inexperienced pilot, that can be done in about an hour.
 
Agree with the others that "their plane, their rules" prevails. I've declined to join clubs/FBO rental lists because of 90-day recurring checkouts, since any club I joined would be to have a plane to fly when my (partnership) plane is down for maintenance or in use by someone else.

I was hopeful that the whole OpenAirplane thing would work out -- for those who don't know, it was a startup that launched in 2013 with a program that FBOs could sign up for, with similar common planes. (I think 172 and G1000 172 were options, maybe a couple of others?) The deal was that any FBO could give an "OpenAirplane" checkout, and then it would be valid on the same type of plane at any other OpenAirplane FBO. Makes a lot of sense. But apparently pilots don't fly away from home base as much as they like to say they do, and there wasn't enough revenue generated to keep it afloat. It never really took off, and officially shut down in 2019. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/december/19/openairplane-shuts-down
 
Hello,

I recently got what appears to be scammed into doing a “checkout” flight in a 172S. I am a commercially rated pilot with 1280hrs and I went up to see my folks this past weekend. I thought it would be nice to rent a plane and go fly around their area for a couple hours. I have over 500hrs in 172’s M-S model’s so I’m no stranger to the type aircraft. The problem was, when I called about renting one of their aircraft, they said the only one available was the most expensive, a 172S with G1000. Whatever I figured that was okay, and then proceeded to tell them my background and how I just wanted to use it for an hour or two, credentials etc. they demanded that I get “checked out” by one of their instructors, even though I probably have more time in that type of airplane than the guy I flew with. Not only did this flight require my demonstration of a few maneuvers, but multiple take off’s and landings to a full stop, so taxing backs etc… I was about to call it quits but figured I’d I have to pay for a flight that they didn’t deem successful so I continued. By the time we were done, we racked up 2.3 hrs and $620 just to get checked out in their plane, by that time I was so fed up I didn’t even fly the ‘hour or two’ flight that I originally set out to do. I will never be back and feel like I got royally taken advantage of.

my question is, are these lame “checkout” flights for the school or the insurance? If I have a lot of time in the make and model, why do I have to go through their dumb checkout in order to fly it? Who’s behind it??

If you are around a business that rents airplanes. you soon discover certificates and hours in a logbook don’t mean much and some people who think they fly great really suck.
 
I always ask what is expected/required. If I’m not ok with it I don’t do business.

Bingo. It is why I don't rent from the homedrome FBO. Already checked out in one type they fly so I thought I'd rent another type for a little more speed. They want minimum 4 hours to check out in another type. No options, no - okay let's see how it goes. Just a min. four hours for a fixed gear single with a fixed pitch prop in a type I have time in. Thanks but no thanks. If maybe I could take the plane on a trip it might be worth it, but then I'd have to pay daily mins that make the ship unaffordable. I actually wasn't surprised. They teach in Cirri aircraft and instead of plugging the power cart in or using a simulator they start the engine and run up hobbs time at the runup pad for lengthy periods on each flight. I don't know if this is to run up the bill or the block time for the IP's logbook. Either way - no thanks.

Edit: Be a smart consumer. Ask what the completion standards are. Know what is expected before you go. If they are asking too much then go elsewhere.
 
MZeroA put out a video about being a "rusty pilot" and one of the people they interviewed was an airline captain who said she hadn't flown GA much since she went 121. Even though she was flying multiple days each week, she said that she was a "rusty pilot" for small aircraft.

As @RussR pointed out even the most experienced pilots have often spent time away from a given type of AC for a while and might just need a little refamiliarization.

My last rental checkout was longer than I hoped, but I felt very comfortable in the AC when we were done. I have a 172M and this was a 172S but had the same avionics stack, so I felt ok that way. The difference was in how it handled. The S model felt like I was flying a brick compared to mine. I was thankful for the time in the ac before I took family up (my grandfather who was a longtime pilot before health issues got in the way). All said and done my checkout in the same type of ac was 1.0 and I felt that was mildly excessive for what we had to do. 2.3 indicates that either the instructor a) saw something he didn't like (maybe a hazardous attitude?) or b) maybe as others have mentioned, maybe they had like a 2 hr familiarization minimum for their aircraft.

The likelihood that he was just being a hotdog is probably lower than we'd care to think. This thread has been helpful in giving me tips and ideas for future rental checkouts.
 
Somedays I feel like the only person on this forum without a bunch of 172 time.
I think it was late 90's, possibly 2000 I got 5 or 6 hours in a 172, nothing before or since.
 
Somedays I feel like the only person on this forum without a bunch of 172 time.
I think it was late 90's, possibly 2000 I got 5 or 6 hours in a 172, nothing before or since.

Nope I have very little as well. Not that little but likely less than 100 hours. It is important to remember that all airplanes fly the same: you pull back the houses get small, you pull back more the houses get bigger. :yikes:
 
I first flew a 172 when i got my commercial and not since. Like a honda civic of the sky.
 
I'm shocked at the number of people saying things like "their plane, their rules" instead of noting that he got taken for 2.3 hours and a BFR only requires one hour. So this FBO required more than double what the FAA requires to show competency. That's just wrong.
 
I'm shocked at the number of people saying things like "their plane, their rules" instead of noting that he got taken for 2.3 hours and a BFR only requires one hour. So this FBO required more than double what the FAA requires to show competency. That's just wrong.

Unless it took them that long to see some competency.
 
I'm shocked at the number of people saying things like "their plane, their rules" instead of noting that he got taken for 2.3 hours and a BFR only requires one hour. So this FBO required more than double what the FAA requires to show competency. That's just wrong.
No, the FAA requires enough time to show competency on a flight review. “Minimum” and “maximum” are not synonymous.
 
Rgbeard, and MauleSkinner are correct.

If it takes 37 hours to show competence, then it takes 37 hours. Just because some pilot thinks they are a cockpit god, doesn't make it true.
 
If it takes 37 hours to show competence, then it takes 37 hours. Just because some pilot thinks they are a cockpit god, doesn't make it true.
I audited one logbook for an ATP applicant that showed a 20-hour Flight Review followed by a 10-hour IPC.

He didn’t attain the proficiency required for an ATP checkride.
 
Somedays I feel like the only person on this forum without a bunch of 172 time.
I think it was late 90's, possibly 2000 I got 5 or 6 hours in a 172, nothing before or since.
Just checked MFB, and I have 7.3 hours, 4.2 of which was dual for a rental checkout (when I was a brand-new pilot).
 
Somedays I feel like the only person on this forum without a bunch of 172 time.
I think it was late 90's, possibly 2000 I got 5 or 6 hours in a 172, nothing before or since.

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger ... I may have a little over two hours and the last hour was several years ago.
 
I'm shocked at the number of people saying things like "their plane, their rules" instead of noting that he got taken for 2.3 hours and a BFR only requires one hour. So this FBO required more than double what the FAA requires to show competency. That's just wrong.

Don't know if it was wrong as I wasn't there ... and I'm guessing you weren't either! ;)
 
I mean, that's not what the post said.


Is the OP a reliable source on this topic? Have you personally flown with him in a G1000 equipped 172 in the past month, and you were amazed by his skills?


I briefly instructed, and I was going to go up with a guy who had way more hours than me, and more than twice my age. Listening to him you would swear he was going to be the best pilot on all the earth.
It was literally frightening how bad he was. Taxiing was bad enough, but he had no skill at all.
 
The OP isn't even a registered user here.
Probably came looking for a whole bunch of sympathy, and is shocked about not getting it.
 
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