Goodbye Santa Monica Airport

Some people are making off-topic posts about the potential closing of the Santa Monica airport.. maybe you should make a new thread to talk about it.
 
F01LA said:
Some people are making off-topic posts about the potential closing of the Santa Monica airport.. maybe you should make a new thread to talk about it.
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Feel free to start a new thread.....
 
Ahem-

After reading through to catch up on this thread, I happen to mention this to a certain CFI that let me use his Skylane lastnight during 20KT winds to retain compliance with 61.57(b) - TYVM...I mentioned this thread.

He's an "insider" on this issue. He didn't say much (and the silence was golden), but rest assured that the good townspeople have a fair amount of regulatory hurdles to jump if they desire to close the airport.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Ahem-

After reading through to catch up on this thread, I happen to mention this to a certain CFI that let me use his Skylane lastnight during 20KT winds to retain compliance with 61.57(b) - TYVM...I mentioned this thread.

He's an "insider" on this issue. He didn't say much (and the silence was golden), but rest assured that the good townspeople have a fair amount of regulatory hurdles to jump if they desire to close the airport.
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True. The airport won't close tomorrow. However, the election results are a set back and do indicate that the airport will eventually close.
 
City lawyers smarter than the FAA. Who would have guessed.
 
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RJM62 said:
The reasons for the dislike of California are actually related to the airport closure, namely: (1) that the state has a higher-than-average percentage of crybabies who stamp their feet, whine loudly, and demand changes every time anything is not exactly to their liking; and (2) that the government actually pays attention to said crybabies.

That being said, New York is not far behind in either category.

Rich
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Example #3,462,244...

Activists blocked construction crews set to install artificial turf fields in Golden Gate Park on Thursday, in a showdown marking the latest escalation in a battle by critics who say the turf carries health risks.
Votes are still being counted from Tuesday's dueling ballot measures on artificial turf — Proposition I, which would let the city install the turf, and Proposition H, which would bar it from replacing the natural grass fields. The votes are still being counted, but so far election results show the ban failing.
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http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...urf-at-Golden-Gate-Park-Fields-281884071.html
 
I notice that the attitude towards Californians by those outside California is remarkably similar to the attitude of some pilots when reviewing an aircraft crash. The smug belief that the other guy was an idiot, so that fate could never happen to me. Trust me, blue state politics are coming to your state too.

All it takes is universities, large urban centers and strangely enough, lots of successful businesses in the state. If you have these ingredients, you can be guaranteed your state will go blue very soon. Once the state is reliably blue and no longer a contest during elections, that's when the crazy train to progressive ideas comes to town and it is tough to derail.

For most of us here, the good does out weigh the bad and so we stay. We have an amazing piece of real estate. Those in New York, or Illinois, have no excuse. :D;)
 
Dav8or said:
I notice that the attitude towards Californians by those outside California is remarkably similar to the attitude of some pilots when reviewing an aircraft crash. The smug belief that the other guy was an idiot, so that fate could never happen to me. Trust me, blue state politics are coming to your state too.

All it takes is universities, large urban centers and strangely enough, lots of successful businesses in the state. If you have these ingredients, you can be guaranteed your state will go blue very soon. Once the state is reliably blue and no longer a contest during elections, that's when the crazy train to progressive ideas comes to town and it is tough to derail.

For most of us here, the good does out weigh the bad and so we stay. We have an amazing piece of real estate. Those in New York, or Illinois, have no excuse. :D;)
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Meanwhile in Texas...there isn't a single Democrat holding a statewide office.

The economy of Texas is one of the largest and most rapidly growing economies in the United States. As of 2013, Texas is home to six of the top 50 companies on the Fortune 500 list and 51 overall, (third most after New York and California).

In 2012, Texas grossed more than $264.7 billion a year in exports—more than exports of California ($161.9 billion) and New York ($81.4 billion) combined. As a sovereign country (in 2012), Texas would be the 14th largest economy in the world by GDP (ahead of South Korea and the Netherlands).

In 2011,Texas had a gross state product of $1.332 trillion, the second highest in the U.S. Texas's household income was $48,259 in 2010 ranking 25th in the nation. The state debt in 2012 was calculated to be $121.7 billion, or $7,400 per taxpayer. Texas has the second largest population in the country after California.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Texas
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Dav8or said:
I notice that the attitude towards Californians by those outside California is remarkably similar to the attitude of some pilots when reviewing an aircraft crash. The smug belief that the other guy was an idiot, so that fate could never happen to me. Trust me, blue state politics are coming to your state too.

All it takes is universities, large urban centers and strangely enough, lots of successful businesses in the state. If you have these ingredients, you can be guaranteed your state will go blue very soon. Once the state is reliably blue and no longer a contest during elections, that's when the crazy train to progressive ideas comes to town and it is tough to derail.

For most of us here, the good does out weigh the bad and so we stay. We have an amazing piece of real estate. Those in New York, or Illinois, have no excuse. :D;)
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Well, your real estate is certainly more exciting. Earthquakes, tidal waves, wildfires, tsunamis, landslides... We certainly can't match the entertainment value of those things. We do get the occasional devastating nor'easter, though.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
Unfortunately, it's also the incubator for weirdness and nanny-statism, with New York running a close second.

I think it has something to do with weirdos and idealists wandering about looking for perfect places to settle, reaching one coast or the other, and being forced to stop when they reach the water and can't go any farther. It starts in the cities and then spreads to the surrounding rural communities when still-restless weirdos move to the country and bring the weirdness with them.

The singular aspect of weirdness that makes these people annoying to others is the very aspect that also causes airport closings, which is why it is relevant to this thread, as distasteful as it may be to Californians. That aspect is the inability of some people to accept anything in their lives that is not to their liking. That inability propels them to pursue perfection, as they define it, without regard to whether the things that they happen to dislike and are trying to do away with may be useful to others.

<snip>
............


They don't like it, so therefore it must go.

Rich
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Sounds just about like communities dominated with right-wing religious nuts. "without regard to whether the things that they happen to dislike and are trying to do away with may be useful to others."
 
3393RP said:
Meanwhile in Texas...there isn't a single Democrat holding a statewide office.
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Exactly, Texas has ridden a boom of drilling oil, nothing to do with what party is in charge.

The people in West, Tx certainly found out about what happens when you have Rick Perry and Greg Abbott in charge...

k-bigpic.jpg


Don't need no stinkin' regulations on storing fertilizer in town....
 
3393RP said:
Meanwhile in Texas...there isn't a single Democrat holding a statewide office.
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It's coming. It's coming. Do you have growing numbers of poor people and immigrants, or declining? You also have this weird little town called Austin. Keep watching. California was once solidly Republican.
 
Dav8or said:
It's coming. It's coming. Do you have growing numbers of poor people and immigrants, or declining? You also have this weird little town called Austin. Keep watching. California was once solidly Republican.
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Denton, TX just voted to ban fracing on Tuesday.

Residents of Denton, Texas, voted Tuesday to ban hydraulic fracturing in the city.

According to unofficial results posted on the city's website, 58.64 percent of voters supported banning the controversial drilling method that is also called fracking; 41.36 percent voted against the proposition. It's the first time a city in the energy-friendly state has voted to ban fracking
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Yeah, Calif is the problem..... 'cept for when Texas does the same thing...
:hairraise:
 
Having been raised in the Caribbean, I don't understand the logic behind the premium associated with high COL areas. It's not just jobs and income, to be clear, as there's a higher marginal return per dollar in low COL areas. Almost invariably, people are not being compensated highly enough in high COL areas to compensate for COL on a one-for-one. People indeed eat that cost via non-economic valuations.

It's also laughable to make the "envy" argument. The majority of people in high COL areas are struggling. Which brings us back to Maslow: What's the point of the desirable place if you're broke and hustling all the time. You aren't really in a position to enjoy that which you purport to sacrifice for if you're tight all the time. Just like you cannot self-actualize when you're sick and hungry.

That's why I left the Caribbean for the "indignity" of central US: Because I can rent "sunshine and coastline" a la cárte with the truckloads of money I have left over after covering my necessities. Paradise is only worth it if you're the elite. You don't need to live in the beach to enjoy the beach. Scenery is one of the more easily rentable assets out there. You think airplanes have low utilization rates? HA! Try scenery and destinations. I would know, coming from such a place. Ask a Vegas local how often they actually utilize the Strip for recreational purposes, same concept. To be geography-poor is no different than to be house-poor. I'm sure those folks in the 101 are tickled pink everyday because they're stuck on a parking lot that happens to hit the mid 70s in December. Yeah, that's the ticket....
 
hindsight2020;1603019........[B said:
Scenery is one of the more easily rentable assets out there. You think airplanes have low utilization rates? HA! Try scenery and destinations. I would know, coming from such a place[/B]. Ask a ........
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I use my scenery 24 /7... For the last 25 years... It NEVER gets old,,:no:
 

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denverpilot said:
Oh I forgot. Your airplane ran on rainbow farts. Not money.
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I didn't mean to say it wasn't expensive, but that the expensive is compounded by impracticality and unreliability. Fixed wing airplanes that require dedicated infrastructure to operate are not going to become a popular mode of local transportation because they are impractical regardless the cost. Add the cost to the equation and you just shut it down to a hobby industry, which is what it is. You have to love aviating to justify not only the expense but the hassle as well. It's not less hassle than flying commercial either for mid range trips and longer, but it is a different hassle.

Quad copters will likely be the first iteration of local flying transit, but the energy density to drive it is still problematic. You have to get people point to point simply and reliably, until you do that GA will not grow.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Exactly, Texas has ridden a boom of drilling oil, nothing to do with what party is in charge.

The people in West, Tx certainly found out about what happens when you have Rick Perry and Greg Abbott in charge...

Don't need no stinkin' regulations on storing fertilizer in town....
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What a ridiculous reach. Ammonium nitrate explosions have happened worldwide, and nothing done by inclusion or exclusion by Perry or Abbott in Texas contributed to the disaster in West.

I guess the 2010 San Bruno gas pipeline explosion was Arnold Schwarzenegger's fault according to your logic. I can post a photo of disasters too.

gas_explosion_san_bruno.jpg


While oil certainly contributes to the Texas economy, it isn't the only driver. If one wishes to do a direct comparison regarding state policies and their effect on business, the recently announced relocation of Toyota USA headquarters from California and other states to Plano is a good example.

Toyota's move will involve 2,000 employees from its sales and marketing arm, Toyota Motor Sales, in Torrance. Another 1,000 will come from Toyota Motor Engineering and Manufacturing North America in Erlanger, Ky. Corporate employees from Toyota Motor North America in New York will be offered jobs in Texas. Toyota Financial Services in Torrance, with 1,000 employees, will follow in 2017.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/04/28/toyota-move-texas/8358361/
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Since the recovery began, Texas has added more jobs in the professional and business services sector than in oil and gas.

Most employment sectors added workers in 2011. Particularly strong were the mining and logging sector (bolstered by oil and natural gas sector industries) that added more than 40,000 jobs and grew by 18.7 percent; professional and business services (53,100 jobs) and leisure and hospitality (41,200 jobs), which chipped in 4.1 percent and 4 percent growth, respectively, and the trade, transportation and utilities sector which added nearly 46,000 workers.

http://thetexaseconomy.org/economic-outlook/
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Dav8or said:
All it takes is universities, large urban centers and strangely enough, lots of successful businesses in the state. If you have these ingredients, you can be guaranteed your state will go blue very soon. Once the state is reliably blue and no longer a contest during elections, that's when the crazy train to progressive ideas comes to town and it is tough to derail.
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Your first assertion was that states will reliably become Democratic due to the benefit of supposed superior political influence. Since that obviously isn't true in Texas, your next theory points toward the traditional source of Democratic power:

Dav8or said:
It's coming. It's coming. Do you have growing numbers of poor people and immigrants, or declining? You also have this weird little town called Austin. Keep watching. California was once solidly Republican.
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Now you say the conversion will take place due to a shift in demographics, inferring that the poor and immigrants will turn the tide.

But that's not happening. As I said, there isn't a single Democrat holding a statewide office in Texas. A good portion of the "poor and immigrants" in Texas vote Republican. Greg Abbott, the newly elected governor, received 48% of the hispanic vote in Tuesday's election.

Austin and Travis County count for little when their combined population of 1.1 million is considered against Texas' 26.5 million.
 
3393RP said:
Now you say the conversion will take place due to a shift in demographics, inferring that the poor and immigrants will turn the tide.

But that's not happening. As I said, there isn't a single Democrat holding a statewide office in Texas.
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Worth noting: Obama won 5 out of 5 of the largest cities in Texas in his first election. Then he did it again in his second one.
 
Don't be silly everyone knows the best beer is brewed in the rocky mountains
 
Henning said:
Yep, but St Louis has one big assed one...:lol:;)
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That just bought, on Wednesday, the Bend, Oregon-based 10 Barrel Brewing Company in admission that Oregon leads in making good beer.
 
JoseCuervo said:
That just bought, on Wednesday, the Bend, Oregon-based 10 Barrel Brewing Company in admission that Oregon leads in making good beer.
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:lol: Busch was bought out a few years back by a big German brewing conglomerate as well. They are going for a global Beeropoly, World domination through controlling the beer supply!:rofl:
 
Henning said:
:lol: Busch was bought out a few years back by a big German brewing conglomerate as well. They are going for a global Beeropoly, World domination through controlling the beer supply!:rofl:
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InBev is Belgian actually.

Who woud've thunk the Belgians were bent on world domination?? :lol:
 
Henning said:
:lol: Busch was bought out a few years back by a big German brewing conglomerate as well. They are going for a global Beeropoly, World domination through controlling the beer supply!:rofl:
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Yeah, I didn't specify which part of InBev bought them, nor does it likely matter if the US operations is deciding to buy craft beer makers in Oregon or if it is the Belgian HQ.

The point remains, Oregon makes good craft beers, may be leading, and the big guys are buying them in order to learn and profit.

I believe Deschutes got bought last year.

I'm trying to start a new enterprise with a partner to supply these guys, and all our estimates are "up and to the right" and the initial brewers have all indicated they will buy all we can produce.

An amazing industry right now.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Don't be silly everyone knows the best beer is brewed in the rocky mountains
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I have drank vast quantities of beer brewed in Golden, Colorado.

At no time did I ever consider it the "best".
 
jkaduk said:
I'll bet there are more breweries within a half hour of my house than in all of Oregon.
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I bet you're wrong. There's more breweries in Portland than in all of SoCal.

Hell, Portland even has a brewery called Lompoc Brewing and Lompoc doesn't even have a brewery of its own! :D
 
Henning said:
One can also ask the question, "Why do they want to replace real grass with artificial grass on a playing field?":dunno: It's not like the park doesn't see plenty of natural moisture to sustain the grass.
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They don't "see plenty of moisture". California is experiencing extreme drought conditions statewide. There is an emergency in progress. Have you seen photographs of California reservoirs at 25% of capacity?

San Francisco has one major source of water, the Hetch Hetchy Dam and reservoir (which the Sierra Club wants to eradicate, another ridiculous California story). The city has implemented mandatory restrictions on landscape watering.

The turf fields would double the current usage of the fields, allowing more families and kids to engage in healthy activities. Maintenance on the turf would save millions of dollars annually compared to grass. There is also the fact insecticides and fertilizers are polluting the bay area and adjacent ocean areas.

I find the objections curious. The same people that supposedly support the environment for the above very valid reasons are protesting the use of artificial turf because it contains miniscule amounts of an obscure chemical which allegedly poses a health risk, even though studies have failed to provide proof of this.

There is no shortage of silly rhetoric from the extremists:

Martin Stidham, a Richmond district resident who donated nearly $10,000 to back anti-turf Proposition H, wrote an article for a local newspaper calling the proposed facility a “toxic waste dump” and comparing it to the Fukushima nuclear reactor disaster.
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“I think people have been paid off by developers, perhaps by the tire industry,” said Freddi Alagheband, a resident of the Outer Richmond neighborhood who organized a fire circle on Monday at Ocean Beach to protest the project.

Mike Murphy, treasurer of the Committee to Protect Golden Gate Park, which collected the signatures to put Proposition H on the ballot, insists the city is faking a field shortage to create demand for artificial turf. “It’s an inventory scheme. It’s a vector marketing scheme,” said Mr. Murphy, who teaches ecoliteracy in city preschools.
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God forbid that children go before local government and say they need a place to play...

Ms. Alagheband even pegs youth soccer players themselves as pawns in the conspiracy, noting that 200 of them recently showed up to City Hall to lobby for the artificial turf project, many of them reciting the same talking points. “They were trained to say ‘I need a place to play,’ ” she said. “I heard a lot of ‘I want, I want.’ ”
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And there's even an attorney that admits there is no hint of a conspiracy, then turns about face and alleges exactly that...

“Is there a conspiracy?” asked Ms. Barish, the anti-turf lawyer. “Who knows? Is there money being paid to people under the table? We don’t know that.” She alleged that the Fisher family, heirs to the Gap fortune who donated much of the money to finance artificial turf athletic fields across the city through the City Fields Foundation, had business interests in construction.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/25/u...ife-in-san-francisco.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

I'll stay in Texas... :rolleyes:
 
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warthog1984 said:
Umm... that's not an assertion, it's fact. High population densities lead to left leaning politics; low population densities lead to right leaning populations.
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Absolutely.
 
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