Golf clap for a not so bright line guy.

James_Dean

James_Dean

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Mar 31, 2005
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Iowa
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Eggman
Came back to the airport to fly home and found my plane had been moved and tied down in a spot not meant for a larger plane. This was the dumbassery that ensued. I was not impressed.

BF7F326D-C6FC-42CB-810A-B79EB4F9587F.jpeg 4921D1C4-1A60-44A5-8070-39D50E41F3AD.jpeg
 
What did the FBO folks have to say about their spectacular tie down job.??
 
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I’m usually a “it’s all good” kinda guy, but I would have chat with someone about that.
 
As I said in my eMail earlier:

Was he a complete ****ing moron, or did he just drink too much bleach that morning?
 
So long as nothing is damaged I think a nice calm talk with the offending party is in order. If something got damaged you can send the FBO the bill, along with a nice nastygram from your lawyer of choice.
 
steingar said:
So long as nothing is damaged I think a nice calm talk with the offending party is in order. If something got damaged you can send the FBO the bill, along with a nice nastygram from your lawyer of choice.
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Michael, look at the photos, he tweaked the brake hard lines.

That's a very stern talk...

eman1200 said:
you're a big meanie.
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I have low tolerance for stupidity of that level.
 
He could have moved the plane forward a couple feet and avoided the brake lines! Moron!!
 
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When I fly into a new airport and plan to spend the night I specifically ask for a spot where the plane will be okay for the night and they won't need to move it. And then, after I tie it down, I tell them that they do not have permission to touch or move my airplane.

It doesn't always work but it does most of the time.

This became a habit after retuning to the K15 airport after a few nice nights at Tan-Tar-A only to find my plane had been drug off of the ramp out into the grass near the road (across ground very soft from rain...leaving ruts) to "show it off". I asked the kid WTF? And he said the airport manager had drug it out there each of three mornings and drug it back and tied it back down each of two nights.

You talk about one pizzed off little white boy! It was definitely a "take no prisoners" eruption.
 
SkyDog58 said:
What did he loop the ropes through?
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He used the tie downs on a regular T and the tie down loops on my plane, but didn't want the nose of my plane "out too far". That required having the wings 4-5 feet behind the tie down anchors and then used an anchor point from another T to pull the tail back and tie it down.

The FBO and their line supervisor were very apologetic. They offered a fuel discount as a down payment on the fix, and said they would order remedial training for all the line team. My A&P will replace the hard lines and carefully inspect the fittings. I managed to keep my cool as there wasn't even a hint of CYA by the FBO, however it was an epic level of dumb.
 
Ever see a line guy put the entire fuel order into one tip tank on a Lear 25? Back in the day, one of my new line guys did. Crew wasn't upset, thank God, but sure was embarrassing.
 
James_Dean said:
He used the tie downs on a regular T and the tie down loops on my plane, but didn't want the nose of my plane "out too far". That required having the wings 4-5 feet behind the tie down anchors and then used an anchor point from another T to pull the tail back and tie it down.
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...

FlySince9 said:
Ever see a line guy put the entire fuel order into one tip tank on a Lear 25? Back in the day, one of my new line guys did. Crew wasn't upset, thank God, but sure was embarrassing.
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Oh. Oh no. Ohhh no.
 
I remember watching an old timer once fuel an old Lear with tip tanks, something he had done hundreds of times. He wouldn't watch the meter, but rather the opposite main gear. As soon as he would see the wheel start to get light, he'd calmly get off the ladder and go to the other wing and repeat.
 
Knowing nothing about the Lear 25 fuel system, I have no idea what the problem is.
 
I have to admit, when I flew into KMQS, the FBO said to just leave my airplane and they'd tow it. I said no you won't either, you will point me to a spot where I can leave it tied down for the night. Lots of Mooneys have received lots of repairs from inattentive line people.
 
EdFred said:
Knowing nothing about the Lear 25 fuel system, I have no idea what the problem is.
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Since the fuel is kept in large tanks on the wingtips, it is possible to tip the airplane onto its wing if you fill one tank without filling the other equally. Usually accomplished by putting 75 gallons in one side, then 150 in the other side, and back and forth keeping it balanced while fueling.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Since the fuel is kept in large tanks on the wingtips, it is possible to tip the airplane onto its wing if you fill one tank without filling the other equally. Usually accomplished by putting 75 gallons in one side, then 150 in the other side, and back and forth keeping it balanced while fueling.
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Similar to the MU-2. In that case it's 6 fill points and you have to go back and forth (left main, right main, right outer, left outer) and then when you get to the tips it's 45 gallons in one tip (half full), top the other, then come back and top the first tip.

Works a lot easier if you've got two guys and two hoses.
 
Piaggio Avanti's will do the same if you don't have the fuel panel settings correct.
 
I worked on the line at Purdue University Airport while attending college there in the late 1970s. I was trained to fuel the Lears so they would remain balanced. I would assume in the subsequent 40 years that the knowledge base has increased and that training is better. Also seeing a Lear on the ramp is far less of a rarity. Yet, people are still trying to tip them over. Amazing.
 
22063AAD-E49C-484C-AF85-5D598A7B18DC.jpegI was on a trip and came across this. I recognized the (blocked out) tail number because I’d seen it in our maintenance shop before. I learned the full story later. Plane was in the hangar with instructions not to move because the engine was off. Why was the engine off?................ they had previously run a tug into the nose! Happened a a major airport.
 
James_Dean said:
The FBO and their line supervisor were very apologetic. They offered a fuel discount as a down payment on the fix, and said they would order remedial training for all the line team. My A&P will replace the hard lines and carefully inspect the fittings. I managed to keep my cool as there wasn't even a hint of CYA by the FBO, however it was an epic level of dumb.
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Attitude is huge...I've seen (and probably done) my share of epic dumbassery, but the ones who step up and make it right without trying to weasel still get my respect and my business.
 
overdrive148 said:
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Mu2's are also a pain but Ted beat me to it.
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I just make a policy that I have to be present for fueling. The line guys thus far have all appreciated it because they're a little wary of its fueling techniques. Most of them have fueled one without an owner present and have gotten yelled at for doing something different than what the owner actually wanted.

So if I'm standing there and they do something wrong, it's nobody's fault but my own.
 
Not as potentially dangerous, but an eye-roller nonetheless ...

I had a pleasant visit at Lake Havasu City AZ a couple of months ago. I was not amused, however, when the FBO’s fuel truck driver reported to the guy at the desk that he had pumped 147 gallons of 100LL into my airplane. He was serious, and repeated that figure when questioned. The desk guy shrugged and started filling out the invoice accordingly. A discussion quickly ensued about decimal points and how when used properly they can be our friends. The fuel capacity of a Cessna 172 was also a topic of the conversation. I paid for my 14.7 gallons and got out of there.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I worked on the line at Purdue University Airport while attending college there in the late 1970s. I was trained to fuel the Lears so they would remain balanced. I would assume in the subsequent 40 years that the knowledge base has increased and that training is better. Also seeing a Lear on the ramp is far less of a rarity. Yet, people are still trying to tip them over. Amazing.
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socioeconomics of the job imo." 5 dollars doesnt buy my undivided attention". thats not just a platitude; ive been the victim of that apathy, and nobody made me whole either wrt damage history impact on resale value, so i put my money where my mouth is when it comes to levying that social criticism of this [w-2 class] wage deflated country of ours.

things never did get better on the purchasing power front since the time you went to college im afraid. people often wonder why we've regressed when it comes to aspirational achievements like manned space exploration. occams razor: things suck down here on the socioeconomic front, thats why. nobody has time to be inspired by airplanes when social security is the retirement staple of 75 pct of the population. undetstand how wealth inequitable of a country that makes us in the aggregate when the bottom 75 pct of the country cannot attain a 75 pct replacement rate in retirement on the wages they earn, and keep up with life. and spare me the calls for austerity in american life, when we live in a country whose 70pct of GDP is consumption.

so nothing against the op, but honestly, damage like that is really a social tax for our collective apathy, if you re not afraid of speaking candidly about our social fabric.dont shoot the messenger. lampooning the guy as a one off idiot is a great missed lesson on whats at play here.
 
Pilawt said:
Not as potentially dangerous, but an eye-roller nonetheless ...

I had a pleasant visit at Lake Havasu City AZ a couple of months ago. I was not amused, however, when the FBO’s fuel truck driver reported to the guy at the desk that he had pumped 147 gallons of 100LL into my airplane. He was serious, and repeated that figure when questioned. The desk guy shrugged and started filling out the invoice accordingly. A discussion quickly ensued about decimal points and how when used properly they can be our friends. The fuel capacity of a Cessna 172 was also a topic of the conversation. I paid for my 14.7 gallons and got out of there.
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I had the opposite once...flew a Falcon from Minneapolis to Los Angeles...told the line guy to top it off. He came in and said, "Does 60 gallons sound right?" Shoulda' been over 600.

Turns out it wasn't a decimal problem, but a rusty water problem. Screwed up his meter and our gauges. :eek:
 
hindsight2020 said:
socioeconomics of the job imo." 5 dollars doesnt buy my undivided attention". thats not just a platitude; ive been the victim of that apathy, and nobody made me whole either wrt damage history impact on resale value, so i put my money where my mouth is when it comes to levying that social criticism of this [w-2 class] wage deflated country of ours.

things never did get better on the purchasing power front since the time you went to college im afraid. people often wonder why we've regressed when it comes to aspirational achievements like manned space exploration. occams razor: things suck down here on the socioeconomic front, thats why. nobody has time to be inspired by airplanes when social security is the retirement staple of 75 pct of the population. undetstand how wealth inequitable of a country that makes us in the aggregate when the bottom 75 pct of the country cannot attain a 75 pct replacement rate in retirement on the wages they earn, and keep up with life. and spare me the calls for austerity in american life, when we live in a country whose 70pct of GDP is consumption.

so nothing against the op, but honestly, damage like that is really a social tax for our collective apathy, if you re not afraid of speaking candidly about our social fabric.dont shoot the messenger. lampooning the guy as a one off idiot is a great missed lesson on whats at play here.
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Wrong. People have responsibility for their actions. Period. It’s blaming society that removes responsibility from the one at fault.
 
James_Dean said:
He used the tie downs on a regular T and the tie down loops on my plane, but didn't want the nose of my plane "out too far". That required having the wings 4-5 feet behind the tie down anchors and then used an anchor point from another T to pull the tail back and tie it down.

The FBO and their line supervisor were very apologetic. They offered a fuel discount as a down payment on the fix, and said they would order remedial training for all the line team. My A&P will replace the hard lines and carefully inspect the fittings. I managed to keep my cool as there wasn't even a hint of CYA by the FBO, however it was an epic level of dumb.
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Damn!

Glad there making it right for you, that's refreshing to see.

But this is really some modern society fail stuff right here, it's not a matter of training, that's not the issue, it's a matter of hiring functional adults.
Case and point my girlfriend knows very little about airplanes other than they are expensive, she is more white glove and cautious on where she touches the plane than I am.

Ideally they should just can the moron and hire someone new who is a touch smarter.
 
Salty said:
Wrong. People have responsibility for their actions. Period. It’s blaming society that removes responsibility from the one at fault.
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i understand where youre coming from with that position, and the cultural factors that make it prevalent among a certain socioeconomic gradient of american society. i just find it an oversimplification of the dynamics at play and thus fails to address the issue. we can agree to disagree of course.
 
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