Glider into IMC near mishap

2:45 if you don't want to sit through a bunch of ignoring vfr cloud clearances and get to the exciting part. Very nearly a natural selection event. I'm constantly amazed by people who do unbelievably stupid things and then post video on the internet.
 
Jim K said:
2:45 if you don't want to sit through a bunch of ignoring vfr cloud clearances and get to the exciting part. Very nearly a natural selection event. I'm constantly amazed by people who do unbelievably stupid things and then post video on the internet.
Click to expand...
Over on BeechTalk somebody said the video was leaked by the investigators.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Over on BeechTalk somebody said the video was leaked by the investigators.
Click to expand...

Once the camera came loose, I couldn't tell what happened. Did the glider suffer damage? Did someone report the incident? I'm just wondering why there would have been an investigation. (My assumption is no accident = no investigation.)
 
Jim K said:
2:45 if you don't want to sit through a bunch of ignoring vfr cloud clearances and get to the exciting part. Very nearly a natural selection event. I'm constantly amazed by people who do unbelievably stupid things and then post video on the internet.
Click to expand...
This was in New Zealand, I believe; the rules may allow for cumulogranite hunting.
 
Was this a training flight? Incredibly dumb nonetheless
 
From what I could tell it was totally legal, until they went into the cloud. From what I could see of the rules, Clear of clouds was all that was really required within 3000 feet of the ground. Based on the video it looks like they were more like 5-700feet. Which would have been legal even in the USA.

I think this was probably a case of who is PIC? The instructor in the back seat had more limited visibility and probably thought the pilot flying (student?) could see where they were going. The pilot flying probably thought the instructor would say something if the pushed into the clouds to far.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
brcase said:
From what I could tell it was totally legal, until they went into the cloud. From what I could see of the rules, Clear of clouds was all that was really required within 3000 feet of the ground. Based on the video it looks like they were more like 5-700feet. Which would have been legal even in the USA.

I think this was probably a case of who is PIC? The instructor in the back seat had more limited visibility and probably thought the pilot flying (student?) could see where they were going. The pilot flying probably thought the instructor would say something if the pushed into the clouds to far.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
Click to expand...
The student is probably a certified pilot seeking a glider rating. Certainly bad decision-making, whoever made the decision, to head to the left over the ridge. Should have turned right and stayed upwind.
 
Glider pilots are pretty nuts. Bruno Vassal's YouTube channel has some good pucker factor moments in there as well

**what happened here was stupid.. however, I will say that, these guys stayed relatively calm and they survived this incredibly close near death experience thanks to staying calm and level headed**

QUESTION: I thought I read somewhere that back in the bi-plane days a common way to get out of IMC was to put the plane in a spin and fall out the bottom.. that's basically what happened here, no?
 
Tantalum said:
Glider pilots are pretty nuts. Bruno Vassal's YouTube channel has some good pucker factor moments in there as well

**what happened here was stupid.. however, I will say that, these guys stayed relatively calm and they survived this incredibly close near death experience thanks to staying calm and level headed**

QUESTION: I thought I read somewhere that back in the bi-plane days a common way to get out of IMC was to put the plane in a spin and fall out the bottom.. that's basically what happened here, no?
Click to expand...
I read of something similar, but as a way to get through a cloud layer from VFR-on-top. Being in the clouds would likely end up like the glider video.

Jack
So long as the bottom of the clouds and the bottom of the sky are far enough apart

And apologies to @nauga
 
Tantalum said:
QUESTION: I thought I read somewhere that back in the bi-plane days a common way to get out of IMC was to put the plane in a spin and fall out the bottom.. that's basically what happened here, no?
Click to expand...
Spin vs "graveyard spiral". I'm guessing the latter.
 
Tantalum said:
QUESTION: I thought I read somewhere that back in the bi-plane days a common way to get out of IMC was to put the plane in a spin and fall out the bottom.
Click to expand...
That lasted into WWII. I used to fly with a guy who was a PB4Y-2 pilot who said most military pilots weren’t trained on instruments, they just flew formation on somebody who was. Even in the PB4Y they were taught to spin down through the clouds if necessary.
 
The bad decisions made in this flight, and there are many, abhor me. I just want to assure those on the board who are not glider pilots that we are not all so stupid.
 
What really got me is the dude had a glider-sized hole to get out of the IMC and turned away from it. DUH, and I don't mean the airport in Toledo.
 
MauleSkinner said:
That lasted into WWII. I used to fly with a guy who was a PB4Y-2 pilot who said most military pilots weren’t trained on instruments, they just flew formation on somebody who was. Even in the PB4Y they were taught to spin down through the clouds if necessary.
Click to expand...
Damn... I can't imagine spinning a plane that big!
 
Tantalum said:
QUESTION: I thought I read somewhere that back in the bi-plane days a common way to get out of IMC was to put the plane in a spin and fall out the bottom.. that's basically what happened here, no?
Click to expand...

That's more if you're stuck VFR on top of a solid overcast and you know the ceiling underneath is high enough to recover from the spin. I did it once in my T-Craft, years ago. But the typical VFR into IMC scenario usually ends up in a spiral dive, and from that speed you're not going to get it into a spin before you rip the wings off (unless you're flying a Pitts or an Extra or something like that).

PeterNSteinmetz said:
Some gliders have a ball indicator which could help in an emergency, but I don’t think it makes the glider IFR certified!
Click to expand...

A skid ball won't help you in IMC. Gliders usually have a yaw string instead of a skid ball, does the same thing but more sensitive. You can see it taped to the canopy in the video.
 
Dana said:
A skid ball won't help you in IMC. Gliders usually have a yaw string instead of a skid ball, does the same thing but more sensitive. You can see it taped to the canopy in the video.
Click to expand...

You’re right. Maybe the one I am thinking of had a gyroscopic turn coordinator, electrically driven.
 
Some gliders do have turn coordinators, some are starting to even have electronic attitude indicators, There is even one called a Bohli compass that is totally unpowered. Current US Soaring competition rules prohibit having working attitude instruments installed during competitions. It is an old rule that was intended to prevent competitors from try to get an advantage by flying into clouds.
http://www.hkavionics.com/Bohli_man/ba_kompi_e4.pdf

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
ADM at 1:20 - he chose to fly into the clouds. No excuse. Fidiot.
 
brcase said:
Some gliders do have turn coordinators, some are starting to even have electronic attitude indicators, There is even one called a Bohli compass that is totally unpowered. Current US Soaring competition rules prohibit having working attitude instruments installed during competitions. It is an old rule that was intended to prevent competitors from try to get an advantage by flying into clouds.
http://www.hkavionics.com/Bohli_man/ba_kompi_e4.pdf

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
Click to expand...
My boss when I was flying gliders told me about the Bohli compass, but I couldn’t figure it out from his description...had to build a model of one. Cool instrument.
 
Tantalum said:
Glider pilots are pretty nuts. Bruno Vassal's YouTube channel has some good pucker factor moments in there as well
Click to expand...

Correction: Most glider pilots aren’t nuts. Bruno however pushes the edge of that.

Lance F said:
The bad decisions made in this flight, and there are many, abhor me. I just want to assure those on the board who are not glider pilots that we are not all so stupid.
Click to expand...

^^^ Lance isn’t nuts. Nor is @brcase. Nor a bunch of others. One other here who contests regularly for distance is now a DPE in almost all fixed wing categories. He’s also not nuts.^^^

:) :) :)
 
Non-glider person here.

What was the flashing light on the instrument panel.??
 
denverpilot said:
Correction: Most glider pilots aren’t nuts. Bruno however pushes the edge of that.



^^^ Lance isn’t nuts. Nor is @brcase. Nor a bunch of others. One other here who contests regularly for distance is now a DPE in almost all fixed wing categories. He’s also not nuts.^^^

:) :) :)
Click to expand...

Sailplanes more than any other allow the pilot to decide how “nuts” they are willing to be, Ie how much risk are we willing to take for what reward.
Some will never venture out of gliding range the airport. With high performance gliders one can fly a long ways doing this, but if racing it may not bee the fastest way to go.
Others are willing to risk landing in a field, if the weather doesn’t work the way they expect. This not really uncommon, and can be very low risk, but not as safe as landing at an airport. I personally have done about 10 off airport landings in 22 years of flying, usually during competition flying.
Others will venture off where there are no land able areas if the weather doesn’t work.

Just like any other kind of flying the pilots range from Ultra conservative to “Nuts”, The ultra conservative ones don’t usually make YouTube video’s.
 
Not the best rudder work even in the clear. The DG manual tells you it's important to keep coordinated ESPECIALLY when in the clouds. Also suggests deploying the dive brake if the speed gets too high.

The light is an indicator for the tail ballast box status.
 
brcase said:
Some gliders do have turn coordinators, some are starting to even have electronic attitude indicators, There is even one called a Bohli compass that is totally unpowered. Current US Soaring competition rules prohibit having working attitude instruments installed during competitions. It is an old rule that was intended to prevent competitors from try to get an advantage by flying into clouds.
Click to expand...

I'm probably missing something, but every compass I've ever seen is unpowered (other than the electric light if it's illuminated).
 
donjohnston said:
I'm probably missing something, but every compass I've ever seen is unpowered (other than the electric light if it's illuminated).
Click to expand...

True, but very few Attitude indicators are unpowered. Bohli compass is called a compass because it is a compass. But is designed to show attitude information as well.

Brian
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top