Give advice for newly starting A+P shop

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dave Taylor
Young person with a few years under his belt working for various shops, I think about ready for the IA.
Wants to know, what advice would you give him? I think he wants to be a one-man operation at a smaller airport which might have another A+P.

Business advice
Regulatory advice
Ethics advice
Maintenance practices advice
Customer relations advice
(no employees)
What else?

I felt overwhelmed with the Q, thought we could distill something here

haha, have fun.
 
Best advice, do something else. Their is no money in GA, have you ever seen a IA working a small shop drive anything other than a old car or truck.
 
Have a "friendly teacher" attitude
 
The only good thing about a A&P/IA starting a small shop on a airport is that all the lawyers know you do not have anything and probably will not ever have anything they could get their hands on. It's almost the perfect judgement proof business around.
 
How depressing.

Guess those who can't, work for someone else.
 
If your going to make it go Jet and Helicopter that's where the money is, not some old piper cub. Those who have started jet centers drive big cars lots of $$$ you can't make it doing C172 or Piper Annuals. Every airport I have been around the local shop has to contend with some IA working out of his car trunk signing off Annuals for less than half or less than the local shop. Their are just too many IA out their willing to work for nothing to help their buddy out and every one is cutting the local shop out.
 
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Don’t start a job unless you are sure you can finish it.

If you don’t know what you are doing, you shouldn’t be doing it.

Do not be afraid to ask another mechanic or shop for help or advice.

The customer definitely isn’t always right but you still need to respect them.

RTFM

Comply with the regs.

Maintain good relationships with everyone on the airport.

If possible find a niche.

Get good insurance.

Don’t cheat people.
 
Ordering parts is the hardest part sometimes.

If you need more time before its right, take it. Don't let the plane owner make you do something you will regret. Need to be able to say NO in the face of disappointment.
 
Start it as a side business. When you can replace current income with the side business, then decide if it’s still worth it.

Seriously, starting a business is easy. Being successful is hard. The questions your friend is asking are the easy ones.

The hard ones deal with accounting, tax estimates and payment, marketing, and legal liability.

S.C.O.R.E has small business mentors everywhere; recommend your friend reaches out to them to find a business mentor.
 
Make sure you don't forget to write bills for your work. The airport authority and your insurance carrier sure as hell don't forget to send you theirs.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Young person with a few years under his belt working for various shops, I think about ready for the IA.
Wants to know, what advice would you give him? I think he wants to be a one-man operation at a smaller airport which might have another A+P.

Business advice
Regulatory advice
Ethics advice
Maintenance practices advice
Customer relations advice
(no employees)
What else?
Click to expand...


Let’sgo:
As others have stated, a fixed-base, one-man shop is a difficult road to take, especially if planned at a small airport with an established mechanic onsite. But the concept is still valid today with some adjustments. The first being go mobile and drop the “fixed” side.

Not knowing the experience level, background, or general location of your young friend, it is difficult to give specific input. However, since he doesn’t have his IA yet, I’ll assume he’s been in the industry for less than 5 years.

First, keep the day job and work as a freelance mechanic, or work with an established mechanic/shop on your time off from the day job. If you think this will cut into your “free time” too much, then don’t try the fixed one-man shop road as their only free time is when they aren’t making money.

I spent years doing the above to good success. However, I had a great day job that offered the ideal 1 for 1 work schedule. So I always had "block days" of off-time. But there were others who did this working a mon-fri schedule to great success.

Having the day job keeps food on the table, bills paid, and capital to invest in your new venture, like insurance, specialty tools, continuing education, etc. It also gets you through the slow times and keeps you sane. If things work your way you can always look at quitting the day job in the future.

As someone had mentioned above, find a niche, or specialize in a task or aircraft type, that will have people calling you. And with today’s technology and digital platforms, you can market your skills to the whole world if you choose. I was limited to Saturday breakfast fly-ins and word of mouth to market my services.

Several niches that I believe offer good possibilities are electrical and/or avionics troubleshooting/repair/install, onsite owner-assisted maintenance, and assisting experimental amateur-built and the LSA category aircraft. However, I wouldn’t pursue the latter of those examples until you have a little more experience maintaining complete aircraft.

The key to these niches is providing these services on the road and onsite. Charging mileage and travel time when appropriate will take care of these expenses. Of all the one-man mx ops out there, the traveling mechanic is the one I see disappearing the fastest.

On the negative side, in all honesty, the only real roadblock to this venture is obtaining insurance to cover your work. Everything else associated with running your business is manageable. The number of insurance underwriters that back freelance mechanics has dropped 90%. And those that do back these type plans may require a mobile, freelance mechanic to purchase a complete “hangar-keepers” policy that covers fuel storage, aircraft storage, and mechanic liability. It’s a b*t*ch to pay for something you can’t use. But I did it for 8 years after my policy changed. And so can you.

Without more details on your friend, I’ll end with these tidbits:

Business advice:
-- form a LLC at the minimum. A number of states allow you to do this online, but I recommend discussing with an attorney prior. Pick a good name… not Bubba’s Air Repair.

-- open a business bank account

-- discuss everything with an accountant prior. It’s worth paying for a few hours of his time. Trust me.

Regulatory advice:
-- Never stop learning. Obtain all the credentials you want, but never over-estimate yourself. Learn to say no when appropriate, no matter what they offer. Always provide the regulatory side of your opinions as you interpret them, otherwise they're just opinions. But never stop learning.

Ethics advice:
--never lie, cheat, or steal. There’s 3 things a person can never get back completely: their age, their health, and their reputation. But if you run across a total pr**k feel free to call them out and kick them out your area.

Maintenance practices advice:
--never stop learning… again. And don’t over-estimate yourself… again.

Customer relations advice:
-- explain everything to the level needed for the customer to understand. There's no such thing as a stupid question. The same question asked/answered on multiple times is another matter. Charge a fair rate and obtain a basic written understanding of the work to be performed. Learn to diplomatically stand your ground as the customer is not always right. But also understand the customer could be right and learn from it.

What else? All depends…. Good luck!
 
Expect everyone at the airport to suddenly become your "buddy" and expecting free work. I don't do it for a living but have a ia. I was pretty much ignored until word got out I have a ia. Suddenly it became "hey buddy would you look at this for me? I'll buy lunch". Funny how they think a hour if my time is only worth a McDonald's burger.
 
Don't try to get by with a one-airplane hangar. Unless you are prepared to sit on your butt not earning while waiting on parts.
 
SkyDog58 said:
The customer definitely isn’t always right but you still need to respect them.
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When I owned my business I would tell my staff that the customer is not always right, but you never win an argument with a customer, so don’t even try.
 
Keep a stock of non-PMA LED landing and navigation lights. Those things sell like hotcakes.
 
There are a lot of very very good A&P/IA's who are nearing retirement. Consider working under their wing and apprentice to get the IA. You then have a business base to take over as the clients already know you and they can have continuity with their repairs and annuals. I've seen others become the hot wrench at a respected FBO and them breakout on their own with a reputation. In either case having a reputation and experience is important to gaining a following of clients.
 
I believe in todays environment one of the best things a new A&P can do is to get a good lawyer to format a work request, including in the fine print the ability of the facility to hold the maintenance records until the bill has been paid. and being explicit as to the prices and mark up of parts.

A good formatted work request will keep every thing up front.
OK lawyers jump in.
 
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Lolz

No

Just be straight with people and do what you say you're going to do, plus a little basic customer service, and few ounces of honor, do onto others, and you'll never need a lawyer
 
Tom-D said:
I believes in todays environment one of the best things a new A&P can do is to get a good lawyer to format a work request, including in the fine print the ability of the facility to hold the maintenance records until the bill has been paid. and being explicit as to the prices and mark up of parts.

A good formatted work request will keep every thing up front.
OK lawyers jump in.
Click to expand...

Hell Tom, put everything in fine print so it’s harder to read.
 
Tom-D said:
I believes in todays environment one of the best things a new A&P can do is to get a good lawyer to format a work request, including in the fine print the ability of the facility to hold the maintenance records until the bill has been paid. and being explicit as to the prices and mark up of parts.

A good formatted work request will keep every thing up front.
OK lawyers jump in.
Click to expand...
My wife is a lawyer. She is retired professionally, but is active in the dog show circuit and does occasional breeding. She is constantly asked to untangle disputes that stem from handshake deals (typically between breeders or on co-ownership deals) where the real world throws something different than what the handshake agreement covered. She is also a certified mediator, so that helps. But occasionally it devolves into a mess that ruins long professional relationships. "Seeing a lawyer" for getting a work order/contract that works for your business does not need to be a hugely expensive endeavor. In fact, I'd bet you could do a trade for an oil change or something and you'd both walk away happy.
 
Total revenue minus overhead equals his wage. Since prevailing rates aren’t his to determine the hard part will be keeping overhead low. The simple way to ease the overhead burden is to increse revenue, and that means hiring other mechanics or helpers. And there’s nothing simple about that. Pretty soon he’ll be a business manager instead of a mechanic.
 
I have seen some smaller airports offer a free hangar plus an income guarantee for a year or 2 as incentive to attract an a&p ia.

Alternatively start small as a side job until it gets to where you can quit your day job.

Be honest. understand that a customers view of you will hinge on your managing their expectations beforehand. If they think it may cost x and you surprise them with y... If they think it will take x time and you take y time. ..
 
James331 said:
Lolz

No

Just be straight with people and do what you say you're going to do, plus a little basic customer service, and few ounces of honor, do onto others, and you'll never need a lawyer
Click to expand...
A well written work order does just that.
 
Assuming the shop is competent, the most important thing: Communicate. Communicate. Communicate. I understand delays. I understand unexpected snafus. I understand (sometimes) going over-budget. I do NOT understand a failure or refusal to communicate those things to me. Second most important thing: be practical and use the discretion the FAA gives you as an A&P/IA. Don't be the guy that, despite common sense, demands that the airplane be kept in like-new condition. Many of our airplanes are old and we as owners are doing all we can to keep them flying. Imposing your own unreasonable standards, that go beyond safety, doesn't help. And third, for the love of god, don't start making up rules.
 
bradg33 said:
Assuming the shop is competent, the most important thing: Communicate. Communicate. Communicate. I understand delays. I understand unexpected snafus. I understand (sometimes) going over-budget. I do NOT understand a failure or refusal to communicate those things to me. Second most important thing: be practical and use the discretion the FAA gives you as an A&P/IA. Don't be the guy that, despite common sense, demands that the airplane be kept in like-new condition. Many of our airplanes are old and we as owners are doing all we can to keep them flying. Imposing your own unreasonable standards, that go beyond safety, doesn't help. And third, for the love of god, don't start making up rules.
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:yeahthat:

I'm not an aircraft owner, but our local Volvo dealer was terrible at communication and it drove my wife & I nuts. This will go a long, long way to satisfy a customer.
 
jsstevens said:
:yeahthat:

I'm not an aircraft owner, but our local Volvo dealer was terrible at communication and it drove my wife & I nuts. This will go a long, long way to satisfy a customer.
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most of my customers only talk to me when they want some thing. I call and get the answering machine, I e-mail and get no answer.
When its time for their annual - different story.
 
Tom-D said:
most of my customers only talk to me when they want some thing. I call and get the answering machine, I e-mail and get no answer.
When its time for their annual - different story.
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I know from my perspective, I want to know what's going on. If you tell me "2 weeks until I get the crank back.", fine. I'll wait 2 weeks. But if that 2 weeks comes and goes and I don't hear I wonder what's going on. If I drop the thing off for a diagnosis, I expect to hear something pretty quick. (Assuming you didn't tell me "it'll be a week before I can get to it."
 
jsstevens said:
I know from my perspective, I want to know what's going on. If you tell me "2 weeks until I get the crank back.", fine. I'll wait 2 weeks. But if that 2 weeks comes and goes and I don't hear I wonder what's going on. If I drop the thing off for a diagnosis, I expect to hear something pretty quick. (Assuming you didn't tell me "it'll be a week before I can get to it."
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check your spam box, you'll see a e-mail from me that's 2 weeks old saying your crank was condemned and I'm waiting for you to send me a new one. :)

Not really (folks) I don't have his crank.
 
"The way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start off with a big one."
Words of wisdom.
I was in the same position as an young A&P and decided to not hang out my own shingle. Opportunity knocked and I was hired by McDonnell Douglas/Boeing and never looked back. Excellent pay and benefits and never a customer to deal with. I spun wrenches and was able to retire from aerospace quite young. But if it's a business you want, then stay away from aviation. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's the way it is.
 
You are a technician with a skill...just cuz you may be good or even the best at that skill does not at all mean you will be successful running a business based on that skill. There is a HUGH difference between performing a skill and running a business. Once I stared running my business I stopped doing the skill which I was phenomenal at cuz it took so much effort just running the business, then I became miserable cuz I just built myself a job that I did not enjoy. Took a while to figure that all out.

Here is required reading IMO for anyone that is thinking about going into business:

The E-Myth Revisited: Why Most Small Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About It

https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Revisit...qid=1513901402&sr=8-2&keywords=e+myth+mastery
 
Email, text, phone call, all fine but tell me what’s going on.
 
One thing I noticed about several A&Ps I've worked with in the past is not asking for money. Skilled worker time (white or blue collar) is worth paying for. Otherwise the customer would just do it themselves. (Regs or not.)


I'm just a small business owner and I watch some of the same things happen with my clients as I see with the A&Ps. It's just business. Needs to be a friendly business as there is competition. Just state $60/hour - 1 hour min as you start talking (or whatever the rate) and get busy. Granted there is time where you won't charge (BS time talking about airplanes, etc.) but don't be bashful. (Do spend a little BS time - that is called sales.)



(There was a young A&P on field I used to ask for help - and didn't mind paying. Even if reviewing my work, I expect him to use his skills and experience - limited as it was - to keep me from doing something dumb. Sure wish he was still around - not because he was cheap - but because he was good. One of the Jet builders hired him away....)
 
Brad Smith said:
"The way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start off with a big one."
Words of wisdom.
I was in the same position as an young A&P and decided to not hang out my own shingle. Opportunity knocked and I was hired by McDonnell Douglas/Boeing and never looked back. Excellent pay and benefits and never a customer to deal with. I spun wrenches and was able to retire from aerospace quite young. But if it's a business you want, then stay away from aviation. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's the way it is.
Click to expand...

The only folks I know in Aviation who have made money by building successful businesses are maintenance shop owners. But they all have (or had) specialties: Warbirds, floatplanes, helicopters, Malibus etc. A jack of all trades small airport maintenance shop is a difficult place to make money.
 
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