Gem from recurrent training

[Let'sgoflying!]

I asked the examiner/instructor what most pilots are weakest on (he is constantly doing recurrent training in turboprops and turbojets)

He said 'ifr, with regards to the navigator devices'.
Meaning, buttonology.

I said I agreed that was one of my weak areas (Garmin 530,600,650,750), and I was surprised the FAA has not required mandatory training before pilots set out with a brand new box.
All I have ever seen after a new install is a 4" manual. There are online simulators and lots of youtube videos but that does require diligent studying and spending some time.
No formal instruction is required or readily available.
I said I had not heard of any crashes because of this issue, but then he went on to mention at least two fatals and he thought at least a checkout should be required.

If you know your box, this does not apply to you.
However if you have a new box or are struggling with a box you now fly - and I think there must be a few in this situation from his initial comment - this is something to look at.

 

[Pinecone]

Garmin GTN gives you a coupon to there online training course.

Garman has that through full multi-day classroom courses on their equipment.

I agree, that some checkout is needed, but rather NOT have the FAA get involved.

 

[elvisAteMySandwich]

Surprised Garmin or Dynon haven't put together inexpensive avionics stacks to sell to flight schools for training. Familiarizing students with their buttonology would lead to more sales down the line.

 

[luvflyin]

I asked the examiner/instructor what most pilots are weakest on (he is constantly doing recurrent training in turboprops and turbojets)

He said 'ifr, with regards to the navigator devices'.
Meaning, buttonology.

I said I agreed that was one of my weak areas (Garmin 530,600,650,750), and I was surprised the FAA has not required mandatory training before pilots set out with a brand new box.
All I have ever seen after a new install is a 4" manual. There are online simulators and lots of youtube videos but that does require diligent studying and spending some time.
No formal instruction is required or readily available.
I said I had not heard of any crashes because of this issue, but then he went on to mention at least two fatals and he thought at least a checkout should be required.

If you know your box, this does not apply to you.
However if you have a new box or are struggling with a box you now fly - and I think there must be a few in this situation from his initial comment - this is something to look at.

I dunno about not any crashes because of this issue. I have read a few reports of crashes where I am convinced it was a causal factor. NTSB says something like failed to maintain control or something like that. But when you follow along with the recordings and the plots, you can almost ‘see it.’ Pilot unable to get the ‘box’ to do what he wants it to do.

 

[Clip4]

I find this statement a bit odd for turbo prop and jet pilots because the pilots seldom hand fly these aircraft VFR or IFR. As far as crashes, the one out of lake front at Cleveland is an example.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I find this statement a bit odd for turbo prop and jet pilots because the pilots seldom hand fly these aircraft VFR or IFR. As far as crashes, the one out of lake front at Cleveland is an example.

The autopilot is another avionics box that gets misprogrammed a lot, unfortunately.

And if the navigator is misprogrammed, the autopilot will still follow bad navigation.

 

[aftCG]

Manual? We don't need no stinking manual

 

[dtuuri]

Manual? We don't need no stinking manual

Imo, that ought to have been the FAA's standard for certification.

 

[Eric Brunelle]

There are many navigator/autopilot configurations, so sim practice can only go so far. You got to get up and fly with new box/AP configuration and get the procedures into muscle memory. Gotta keep trying different scenarios so the fat fingers know where to go easily. This can take some time.

 

[Pinecone]

I would think that the avionics manufacturers would want accurate models of their equipment in the major home sims. Garmin has their PC trainer software, but it sort of exists in a vacuum. Spend some money and port that into X-Plane and MSFS, so people can model the exact avionics in their plane.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Gotta keep trying different scenarios so the fat fingers know where to go easily. This can take some time.

I certainly raise my personal mins when using a new box or autopilot. Have cancelled because of this situation. "Sorry, not comfortable."

 

[jrcox19]

Surprised Garmin or Dynon haven't put together inexpensive avionics stacks to sell to flight schools for training. Familiarizing students with their buttonology would lead to more sales down the line.

Do the available iPad apps not already accomplish that?

 

[texasclouds]

The Five P’s

 

[Eric Brunelle]

Do the available iPad apps not already accomplish that?

Different AP’s, transponders, primary displays, etc. you need to play with YOUR SETUP in order to get smooth enough to avoid the ‘buttonology’ mistakes that the OP is referring to.

 

[GeorgiaPilot1021]

I'm getting a GTN 750 in the Piper Dakota I fly here shortly, and I've been able to my at-home PC simulator to get very comfortable thanks to a Reality XP (built off Garmin trainer) plug-in. Between that and the Pilot Workshops course on the GTN, there are some very good resources available!

 

[Nathan Hyland]

I'm getting a GTN 750 in the Piper Dakota I fly here shortly, and I've been able to my at-home PC simulator to get very comfortable thanks to a Reality XP (built off Garmin trainer) plug-in. Between that and the Pilot Workshops course on the GTN, there are some very good resources available!

Same exact thing. I've got a g500, and gtn650 (and 355), and this seemed like a great way to get familiar with it.

Other than that, the iPad trainers have been fantastic. Following along with online videos was enough to get me familiar enough to fly before the sim.

 

[Martin Pauly]

I was surprised the FAA has not required mandatory training before pilots set out with a brand new box.

Oh man, be careful what you wish for!

Don’t get me wrong - I see (first hand) the benefit of training with new avionics, but I don’t think we want the FAA in charge of how exactly we go about that.

- Martin

 

[PaulS]

I didn't know this until I started flying a TAA, but button pushing is a perishable skill. You need to do it regularly to stay on top of your game. I love it when practicing IFR using ATC at a busy airport. Around here you tend to get jerked around a little bit, like being told to fly through final after being cleared for the approach, or being given vectors then told to fly to a fix after hitting that VTF button. All good stuff for staying on top of the FMS.