Gear Up Landing Right in Front of Me

I'm always so suprised at how general aviation is so far behind on possible technology that would make things 1000x safer. I know it is a money issue...but still.

It's like the back up rear view camera - every car should have one.

How hard would it be for a bunch of smart engineers to come up with a way that recognizes when a plane is coming in for landing and the gear (when appropriate), just goes down automatically - and the pilot...to over-ride...would have to physically put in input to reverse this.

I'm not even clever, and I can think of 2 or 3 ways that would easily work. For one, the tower could send out an electronic ping to all plans with RG when they are a mile out on final. GPS equiped planes could recognize a pattern, a decrease in speed, and a descent - and automatically lower the gears a mile out. There could be a system on the ground that when planes crossed the threshold, the gear lowers.

So many possibilities.

How we don't receive text messages from the tower on our displays is beyond me. How many AOPA youtube saftey videos do we have to watch where there was total miscommunication on the radio before we can admit - its super hard to hear sometimes what people are saying or what they mean? How is it that ATC personnel have the worst diction on the planet?

The number of such incidents is a miniscule fraction of total retractable gear landings every year. There are far greater, and deadlier problems in aviation that need attention and $ to solve - when was the last time you heard of a fatality from an inadvertent gear up landing?

Piper tried to solve this problem in the early Arrows. I have a vague recollection they got sued for their efforts.
 
So your point was that it costs to much money?

I did miss that point entirely.

It's a good point, and answers the question why GA is so far behind I guess.

Aircraft owners SHOULD complain about the cost of ABS-B because it is ridiculous how much it costs. I suspect it costs so much because of political bullSH$T.

You still missed the point.

And if Tesla is your example of a successful technology leader in its space, suggest you watch what the power of market economics does to it over time.
 
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Piper tried to solve this problem in the early Arrows. I have a vague recollection they got sued for their efforts.

An uncommanded deployment of a significant amount of drag when an airplane is low, slow, at minimal power, and potentially maneuvering turned out to be a bad idea.

Go figure.
 
I'm not sure I would recognize the horn over the radio( I've never flown a retractable airplane.) I'm not sure why though, if a person recognized a potential problem that person would not try and help a fellow pilot out and make the person aware of the problem. Especially when that plane is in the pattern ahead of you, it seems like you could have averted an issue and just said, "hey mooney, check your gear is down." That takes maybe 2 seconds, could have saved the pilot money and aggravation and in my mind, would have been the right thing to do! I frequently hear, and I offer up friendly cautions to other pilots-- like "hey be careful several birds in the area." No one takes offense to that a it could help other pilots!
 
I'm always so suprised at how general aviation is so far behind on possible technology that would make things 1000x safer. I know it is a money issue...but still.

It's like the back up rear view camera - every car should have one.

How hard would it be for a bunch of smart engineers to come up with a way that recognizes when a plane is coming in for landing and the gear (when appropriate), just goes down automatically - and the pilot...to over-ride...would have to physically put in input to reverse this.

I'm not even clever, and I can think of 2 or 3 ways that would easily work. For one, the tower could send out an electronic ping to all plans with RG when they are a mile out on final. GPS equiped planes could recognize a pattern, a decrease in speed, and a descent - and automatically lower the gears a mile out. There could be a system on the ground that when planes crossed the threshold, the gear lowers.

So many possibilities.

How we don't receive text messages from the tower on our displays is beyond me. How many AOPA youtube saftey videos do we have to watch where there was total miscommunication on the radio before we can admit - its super hard to hear sometimes what people are saying or what they mean? How is it that ATC personnel have the worst diction on the planet?
  • Because I don't put the gear down a mile from the airport; when VFR, it goes down abeam my intended point of landing (downwind leg near the numbers).
  • Instrument approaches are all different. Often gear goes down based on glideslope intercept (many wait until centered, I drop them a dot and a half high to descend on the glideslope); exact location will vary based on glideslope angle (terrain, obstructions, airspace), airplane model, loading and airspeed.
  • Some approaches don't have glideslope, so gear is deployed based on position.
  • Many RG planes have manual gear. Never seen automation that can unlatch and swing a 2' long bar througb the cockpit of a GA airplane.
  • Let's not make my plane work like my phone! Have you looked at what your automated spell checker does to what you type? At least Android provides up to 12 spelling suggestions for every word I start typing, while Apple usually provides just two alternatives.
  • To err is human, to really screw things up requires a computer.
  • When it's my life on the line, I don't trust programmers. Too much pressure to close out development / testing and get the code released; let the customers be the beta testers. Oops, sorry about that gear up landing, we didn't anticipate that course of events to happen . . . .
  • Any idea how many different setups would be needed to cover the GA fleet?
  • Any idea of the amount of testing that would be required for FAA approval of eqch different version? $$$
All that being said, feel free to start developing and testing ideas. Your solutions need to be mistake free, multifunctional and able to work properly 100% of the time for every VFR and Instrument Approach in the U.S. to start (and expandable to global use). Start with PMA approval and STC for a single popular RG plane, and make plans to expand STC approval to all certified RG aircraft. If it works well, have a route for adoption by Experimental planes, too.

See you in a few years, not counting any time you need to raise several million dollars.
 
My phone does amazing things that are automatic. It is wonderful. They were thought up by really smart people. Do you know that when I open up my computer, the browser history that was on my phone automatically shows up on the computer? And we have so many computers and phones in the house...and it knows which one was mine! And no one can hack that (unless they are extremely sophisticated and was directly targeting me).

Main difference is when your phone or computer gets messed up or crashes you just reboot. In aviation that could have some serious consequences. Even in the non-tso expiremental world things are tested to a point that risk is marginalized. Technology and automation in aviation needs to be balanced against risk, which inherently has a higher level than your car or phone.
 
I'm always so suprised at how general aviation is so far behind on possible technology that would make things 1000x safer. I know it is a money issue...but still.

It's like the back up rear view camera - every car should have one.

How hard would it be for a bunch of smart engineers to come up with a way that recognizes when a plane is coming in for landing and the gear (when appropriate), just goes down automatically - and the pilot...to over-ride...would have to physically put in input to reverse this.

I'm not even clever, and I can think of 2 or 3 ways that would easily work. For one, the tower could send out an electronic ping to all plans with RG when they are a mile out on final. GPS equiped planes could recognize a pattern, a decrease in speed, and a descent - and automatically lower the gears a mile out. There could be a system on the ground that when planes crossed the threshold, the gear lowers.

So many possibilities.

How we don't receive text messages from the tower on our displays is beyond me. How many AOPA youtube saftey videos do we have to watch where there was total miscommunication on the radio before we can admit - its super hard to hear sometimes what people are saying or what they mean? How is it that ATC personnel have the worst diction on the planet?
My 1982 PA32 has an auto gear extension system. There is a second pitot like extension on the side of the plane that was to sense low air speeds and put down the gear. The system was standard on all retract Pipers in the late 70's and early 80's. It has been deactivated in all those planes. It was being blamed for causing stalls at low speed and altitude because of the gear extending when the pilot was not expecting it. The FAA judged that a gear up landing was better than a base to final turn stall and spin, so they recommended the system be disabled.

The laws of physics would still make this a issue even if a modern system was developed. If you have ever flown retract, you can feel the change in areodynamtics and see a drop of roughly 5 knots when the feet go down (in pistons at least).

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
Doesn’t sound like the pilot followed a before landing checklist. Complacency is never a good thing. The auto gear system in the pipers could be overridden so there will always be a chance for pilot error when flying retracs.
 
Human beings are by nature distractible animals. I promise I could easily distract any of you sufficient to make you forget to lower the gear, and I don't hold a patch on your average 4 year old (though Mrs. Steingar says I've the maturity of one).

I myself lower the manual gear in my aircraft a few miles from the runway. I prefer to dirty up the airframe before I get into the potentially distracting landing pattern, where i really should concentrate on not running into other aircraft rather than monkeying around with my own.
 
Because I don't put the gear down a mile from the airport; when VFR, it goes down abeam my intended point of landing (downwind leg near the numbers).
Fine until you come into a towered field where they instruct you to make a straight in or base entry.

As for gear horns all are pretty much throttle position based. Someone was making working on a design a while back (this was so far back that they were working with the poloroid sonic autofocus sensors) that was a simple device you could put in an inspection plate on your wing that would give you the "ah crap go around" final warning if you were within ten feet or whatever and the gear was still up.
 
Be sure to let the pilot of the other aircraft know you heard it and didn't say anything. That way you can be named as a party defendant on the lawsuit.
 
It's like the back up rear view camera - every car should have one.

I prefer my radar audio alert. That way I can look back where I'm going, use my mirrors and listen rather than just focus my eyes forward and down low on the dash console.
 
View attachment 61412

Looks like ownership changed hands recently.

My experience comparable to the OP was similar circumstance. Coming in to a Minnesota airport one evening many years ago, on my way to OSH. Only one plane in the circuit, doing touch-and-goes. It was a retired Northwest pilot flying a recently acquired tandem Pilatus ex-military trainer. He was really smoking on the downwind. I entered downwind behind him in my put-put Piper. As I turned base there was a Mayday call and an announcement from him the runway was blocked due to a gear up landing.

No, I didn't hear a gear horn. ;) But the ramp attendant at the FBO said he'd been up for more than an hour on a quiet summer evening, and I wondered if my radio calls entering the circuit was the distraction...
 
So, I should have told him good job? I see it it as perfect opportunity to teach a student situational awareness. Planning for potential go around. And yes, there is a time and place to speak up.

Aside from mentioning something to the other pilot. I would have been tellling the student what that sound was, and what could we expect to happen. That would have been included in my instruction to the student. As a CFI on final and even in the pattern you can never have your head completely involved in just teaching the student. You are the responsible party. You need to know what is going on outside of your plane while teaching the student inside the plane.

I assume you are a CFI? And you can sugarcoat things however you like!

Nobody likes a tattle tale. On the other hand, our government overlords did tell us, “If you see something, say something.” ;)

In a perfect world the Mooney had his gear down. Slightly less perfect would be having another pilot pipe up with a suggestion to lower the gear before landing. Just below that we have what really happened. ATC didn’t tell the guy to drop his junk, no other pilots did, either, but the OP is gonna get your guff because why? Did you land gear up a couple times and you’re still salty about it because no one warned you?
 
... For one, the tower could send out an electronic ping to all plans with RG when they are a mile out on final... We do, have you ever heard a controller say "check wheels down?" There's your ping.

So many possibilities.

How we don't receive text messages from the tower on our displays is beyond me. Voice recognition software has to be light years ahead of where it is now because controllers wouldn't be able to manually text anything. Secondly, how are you going to read it? A heads up display would be the only viable way to do this and I can't even imagine the amount of money this would take to develop and implement. How many AOPA youtube saftey videos do we have to watch where there was total miscommunication on the radio before we can admit - its super hard to hear sometimes what people are saying or what they mean? How is it that ATC personnel have the worst diction on the planet? Turn up the oxygen nurse, I feel a guffaw coming on. Have you heard any pilots recently? I understand that ATC folks are hard to understand sometimes but they talk fast and in a certain way because it is necessary. You as a pilot are responsible for the communication of your airplane and that's it. Controller's are responsible for deciphering what pilots want, many pilots at the same time. Try it some time.
 
It's a scientific fact that we have the ability to become deaf to certain things.
Most married guys develop a "notch filter" for the frequency of their wife's voice. You can be totally deaf at that frequency, and you will only hear them when they change the pitch of their voice. Yet other inputs at that frequency that are "not wife" are heard just fine.
Kids are also great at tuning out their parents.
I'm pretty sure the gear warning falls into this category. And since it never changes pitch, youwon't tune it back in.
It's a fascinating study. I don't have the link handy, but it's on the NEJM site if you want to read it.
 
@Timbeck2

At FAA towers (& contract towers) don't say that Tim unless it's a military plane. Only us old Air Force controllers are required to. Even copters. Told a Huey ck wheels down, cleared to land. He can back 'down n welded'. Told him we're required to say it for all military aircraft. Maybe it's changed since I controlled.
 
Isn't KHIO a tower controlled field? Why didn't tower say something?

Tower isn’t responsible to ensure the gear is down. If they observe it, they can issue “landing gear appears to be up.” Also, it’s not a military field and not a FAA ATC facility supporting a military aircraft operation, so no “check wheels down” would given to a civ Mooney.
 
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Tower isn’t responsible to ensure the gear is down. If they observe it, they can issue “landing gear appears to be up.” Not a military field so no “check wheels down” is given with the clearance.

Had a 210 once that I had given check wheels down, cleared to land a ways from the airport. Had a Huey I was watching and turn to watch the 210, on short final no gear. Immediately told him "neg gear" or similar, and he put the gear down. Didn't even call and say thanks. :(
 
Had a 210 once that I had given check wheels down, cleared to land a ways from the airport. Had a Huey I was watching and turn to watch the 210, on short final no gear. Immediately told him "neg gear" or similar, and he put the gear down. Didn't even call and say thanks. :(

One time I made my student tell a Marine Cobra “wheels should be down” on a GCA. Came back with “skids down and welded.” I laughed and slapped the student upside the head...”idiot!”
 
I've just always used common sense when it comes to what exits my mouth hole and into the ears of pilots. With the hundreds of trainees I've seen in the past 26 years, I've found that common sense isn't even remotely common any more so I've heard many a gear down call when it wasn't necessary and none when it was. Civilian, military - it doesn't matter to me; if I see the gear not extended, I say something. My common phrase when watching someone to land is "feet (gear), light (landing light), critters" (check the runway for coyotes, dogs, etc) Too many pilots will want to blame someone else and it behooves any controller with only one runway to check the gear of landing traffic. Otherwise, your runway is down and nobody gets to land.
 
I've just always used common sense when it comes to what exits my mouth hole and into the ears of pilots. With the hundreds of trainees I've seen in the past 26 years, I've found that common sense isn't even remotely common any more so I've heard many a gear down call when it wasn't necessary and none when it was. Civilian, military - it doesn't matter to me; if I see the gear not extended, I say something. My common phrase when watching someone to land is "feet (gear), light (landing light), critters" (check the runway for coyotes, dogs, etc) Too many pilots will want to blame someone else and it behooves any controller with only one runway to check the gear of landing traffic. Otherwise, your runway is down and nobody gets to land.

What year did you go through Biloxi Tim?
 
My bad, 2048! You can hear his first call somewhere around 12 minutes in. Base around 18 and ATC instructions around 20.
Thanks for the information.
Found the audio recording, you were right, the alarm was audible. However, having never flown a Mooney, I don't know what a gear warning sounds like on those so I wouldn't have recognized it over the radio.
(wanted to attach a sound clip of the landing clearance and readback with the alarm audible but PoA rejects MP3s, bummer)
I liked the controller's subtle "Mooney 513, we got people coming" and the "Thank you" reply. The controller didn't rat the pilot out on frequency. Nice guy. :)
 
Had a 210 once that I had given check wheels down, cleared to land a ways from the airport. Had a Huey I was watching and turn to watch the 210, on short final no gear. Immediately told him "neg gear" or similar, and he put the gear down. Didn't even call and say thanks. :(

Too embarrassed to admit his mistake.
The airplane equivalent of avoiding eye contact while driving when you pull some bonehead stunt.
 
I may have told this story here before, but here goes. Years ago, at a previous employer, my boss (the owner) was giving a checkride to a new captain. After a bunch of simulated failures and distractions, they end up landing gear up. Our mechanics patched up the sheet metal enough to get a ferry permit to fly it to a repair station. I drew the lucky assignment of flying as copilot with the boss on the ferry flight.

After takeoff as we are climbing out the tower say, "Nxxxx, do you know your gear is still down." Before I can even react, my boss keys the mike and responds, "Ha Ha Ha, thanks a lot, where the f*** where you on Tuesday?"
Tower guy: "Say Again?"
Boss: "I assume you know this was the airplane that gear upped the other day"
Tower: " I just got back from vacation, I didn't know a thing about it"
Boss: "I'm really sorry, I just thought you were trying to be funny, Thank you very much."
 
I'm not sure I would recognize the horn over the radio( I've never flown a retractable airplane.) I'm not sure why though, if a person recognized a potential problem that person would not try and help a fellow pilot out and make the person aware of the problem. Especially when that plane is in the pattern ahead of you, it seems like you could have averted an issue and just said, "hey mooney, check your gear is down." That takes maybe 2 seconds, could have saved the pilot money and aggravation and in my mind, would have been the right thing to do! I frequently hear, and I offer up friendly cautions to other pilots-- like "hey be careful several birds in the area." No one takes offense to that a it could help other pilots!
Agreed. Unfortunately, I just didn't think to tell this guy. I just assumed he knew what was going on and didn't really process that he might not be hearing the horn.
 
Modern day electronics, can deploy gear after 5 second delay while flashing an annunciator. If you can ignore an audio and light. You need to turn in your certification.
 
Hi.
I am sure this is not new, but there are only two kinds of pilots that fly RGs, the ones that landed with the gear up, or Will land with a gear up. Just accept it, or stay away from RGs.

My CFI was bound and determined to never have a gear up landing. 3 green on down wind. 3 green on base. 3 green on final. I can hear him now and that was about 16 years ago. He was a former airline pilot, and checklists ruled.

Just an FYI, some Piper Arrows have a system to automatically deploy the gear. Most/all of those systems have been disabled.

The one our club had for a number of years certainly had it disabled. You lowered the gear, or it didn't go down. A 1969 PA-28R-200. Still had the extra pitot tube on the side of the fuselage, but it didn't do anything.
 
I may have told this story here before, but here goes. Years ago, at a previous employer, my boss (the owner) was giving a checkride to a new captain. After a bunch of simulated failures and distractions, they end up landing gear up. Our mechanics patched up the sheet metal enough to get a ferry permit to fly it to a repair station. I drew the lucky assignment of flying as copilot with the boss on the ferry flight.

After takeoff as we are climbing out the tower say, "Nxxxx, do you know your gear is still down." Before I can even react, my boss keys the mike and responds, "Ha Ha Ha, thanks a lot, where the f*** where you on Tuesday?"
Tower guy: "Say Again?"
Boss: "I assume you know this was the airplane that gear upped the other day"
Tower: " I just got back from vacation, I didn't know a thing about it"
Boss: "I'm really sorry, I just thought you were trying to be funny, Thank you very much."
Tower: "Sir I have a number for you to call!" - - Strike 2! The boss is on a slippery slope lately ;)
 
Tower isn’t responsible to ensure the gear is down. If they observe it, they can issue “landing gear appears to be up.” Also, it’s not a military field and not a FAA ATC facility supporting a military aircraft operation, so no “check wheels down” would given to a civ Mooney.

I know Tower is not responsible for warning pilots or inspecting for gear down. Just thought it odd that people in the pattern clearly heard the gear warning alarm, and not even the tower noticed. Even though full responsibility belong to the PIC, still too bad no one could help him with a simple radio call.
 
My point is...GA is SOOO FAR behind the curve
I totally agree with you. That's why I love Cirrus.. it's really the only modern piston plane out there. Cessna, Piper, Bonanza, etc., are essentially still the same they were in 1960.. if anything many are less capable now as the useful loads on them have decreased as the planes have gotten beefier through the years. If it weren't for Garmin these planes would pretty much be the same they were 50 years ago. Flying recently did a highlight on the (new) Bonanza. I almost threw up that they are expecting $1.4M for one.. we were so quick to criticize Cirrus for being close to, but under $1M.. and yet here you have a plane that is pretty much less capable across the entire spectrum, and frankly looks clunky and cheap on the inside.. (sorry, I know I just mortally offended many PoAers..)

**But, to that point, technology is very slow to catch up in GA simply because the volume is tiny. Ford sells something like 10,000 cars in a single day, or more, while GA struggles to sell 500 new planes a year. So for that very thing by itself tech will be very slow to catch up. Plus, the costs for aviation are much higher, and unlike Tesla or Ford or GM you don't have investors and government(s) literally throwing money at Cirrus, Piper, Cessna, Lycoming, Continental, etc.. at least not compared to the auto industry (yes I know Boeing gets gov and investor money, but until they get into the GA world lets not count them)

The initial RD costs for the original Cessna and Piper GA planes have long since been recouped. Why Piper or Cessna can't make a modern plane is beyond me. WAIT, Cessna did have the TTX, which gave the Cirrus a real run for its money... but Cessna for whatever reason did a **** poor job of marketing it, and finally cancelled production altogether. I guess selling boat loads of 172s to flight schools and focusing on their bigger corporate market with Textron is where they wanted to go


How hard would it be for a bunch of smart engineers to come up with a way that recognizes when a plane is coming in for landing and the gear (when appropriate), just goes down automatically
Not hard at all actually, as other have said Piper had a system for that.. however because people are people Piper had to deactivate it.. according to AVweb "There were enough “misunderstandings” by mid-1987 that Piper, then owned by Lear-Siegler, ordered the system deactivated because of concern over liability suits." https://www.avweb.com/news/features/Used-Aircraft-Guide-Piper-Arrow-223620-1.html

Heck, cars are arguably much "safer" now than they were even in say 2008, however fatalities and fatality rates have pretty much been either constant since 2008, or even increased slightly.. both in number of fatalities and, what's probably a better number, the fatality rate per 100 million vehicle miles traveled. Technology is nice, but people, unfortunately make mistakes. Put ABS and four wheel drive on a car, that should make it better, right? But that also gives winter drivers a false sense of security and you see SUVs in a snow blizzard doing 65 on the highway, then see them in the ditch 5 minutes later

The reverse in the trend below could also be partially because of the introduction of smart touchscreens in every car.. and connectivity (there's a buzzword). Funny that it is illegal to use your phone in the car, but perfectly legal to scroll through pages of touchscreen menus on your infotainment screen. If I want to turn the fan speed up and make the air cooler I shouldn't have to access 3 menus to do so!!

Savage Geese did a nice job of explaining why I hate many new cars:

(apologies for the totally tangential rant!)


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I know Tower is not responsible for warning pilots or inspecting for gear down. Just thought it odd that people in the pattern clearly heard the gear warning alarm, and not even the tower noticed. Even though full responsibility belong to the PIC, still too bad no one could help him with a simple radio call.

Many tower controllers would have no clue what a gear horn sounds like. Not every controller is a pilot, and the ones that are pilots may have never flown a retractable gear.
 
Many tower controllers would have no clue what a gear horn sounds like. Not every controller is a pilot, and the ones that are pilots may have never flown a retractable gear.


Agreed. Although I'm a pilot and have 40+ hours in retractable gear, I couldn't tell you what a Mooney gear warning horn sounds like. As a controller, those are your noises, controllers have enough noises to learn on their own for example a small sampling: Collision avoidance alarm, low altitude alarm, emergency alarm, radar outage alarm, tacan, vor, ILS alarm, the noise that someone makes by pushing the button for entrance to the tower both top and bottom doors, and the list goes on and on.
 
Agreed. Although I'm a pilot and have 40+ hours in retractable gear, I couldn't tell you what a Mooney gear warning horn sounds like. As a controller, those are your noises, controllers have enough noises to learn on their own for example a small sampling: Collision avoidance alarm, low altitude alarm, emergency alarm, radar outage alarm, tacan, vor, ILS alarm, the noise that someone makes by pushing the button for entrance to the tower both top and bottom doors, and the list goes on and on.

Curiosity question. Is the collision alarm a high-low continuous? I hear that crap all the time from the other end of the radio at our somewhat busy little Delta. And it’s usually when a particular controller is losing the big picture. Trainee I’m sure, another voice always comes on and eventually straightens it all out. Hahaha. I’m developing a twitch whenever I hear that particular trainee’s voice to really watch out for mistakes and I wish I wasn’t.

Most recent was not switching back to full call signs when two “Seven Niner Mikes” were in the pattern. That one didn’t get corrected by the trainer but I made sure to say something.

“Cessna Seven Niner Mike, Cleared to Land Runway 35 Left.”

“Cleared to Land 35 Left, Seven Niner Mike.”

Now to me...

“Cessna Seven Niner Mike, taxi into position and hold, Runway 35 Right.”

Now let me preface this with our permanent procedure change that NOBODY calls our Tower. You are sequenced to the hold line by Ground and then told to MONITOR Tower.

The poor guy with the landing clearance just heard his landing clearance and my takeoff clearance back to back with NO indication yet over the air that I was there.

I made sure he didn’t respond and then answered with, “Position and hold 35 Right, for the OTHER Seven Niner Mike, 1279M.”

I’m sure the other guy was chuckling as he finished his arrival off to my left. Or relieved he wasn’t supposed to be hurrying over to plant his airplane on the other runway. But if he had mis-heard that as a runway change to his landing clearance I knew I had better not be out there for him to land on.

But that kind of stuff is just repetitive with this one particular controller right now. The other common one is there now is a “Seven Niner Mike” and a “Niner Seven Mike” based at the airport and that controller has mixed up who was where multiple times for our two callsigns. It’s just cringeworthy sometimes.

I suspect they’ll get better with time. I sure hope so. Hearing confusion in their voice is not helpful for me or students other than as a warning that we’d better watch for the airplane that got missed in the runway change.

A wind shift and runway change is always a zoo at APA but if that controller is working Local when it happens I often announce that I want to exit the pattern and return later if multiple 360s in the pattern are issued. It gets bad enough tracking that everyone is reversing courses and nobody got missed when the fully qualified controllers do it. I’ll just pick the safe exit direction and say I want to go away and it’s immediately granted. Bye. Don’t need a midair scare today, thanks.

One controller at home is STELLAR and really gets it. He’ll put airplanes all over the place — really knows how to use opposite side, overhead, landmarks, and and all of the airspace to his advantage when he has to. And he’s fast enough at the big picture that special requests like short approaches for power off 180s and such, are just a no-brainer to him. You can tell he’s been doing it a long time. He also recognizes voices and knows instructors and frequent flyers and who to ask for oddball stuff to fix spacing, etc.

Not saying the other controllers are slouches at all but that guy is good. Really good.

Time and practice. I hope the weak one starts coming up to speed. They don’t sound very confident most of the time. Someone needs to tell them they’re doing good but it needs to come up just one more notch. Our airport is busy. That controller holds their own until something unexpected happens and then it goes down the tubes. I just wanna yell “Work it! Don’t back off. Control it! You’ve got this!”

Which... is probably what their supervising controller is telling them, too. So they don’t need me saying it. It’s like watching a student who gets tossed one more ball to juggle and drops all of them. A solid “All aircraft calling for landing, remain outside the Delta. I’ll call you all back in a minute.” would fix most of that controller’s issues.
 
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