Gear stays down for pattern work?

Chip Sylverne

Chip Sylverne

Final Approach
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Quit with the negative waves, man.
Still getting comfortable in the Comanche, spending a lot of time doing full stop landings and T&G's. Some guys are telling me to leave the gear down, less wear and tear. Others say gear up and down every time to ingrain the habit.

What say you complex guys?
 
Do you use a checklist? What's on it?

Chip Sylverne said:
Still getting comfortable in the Comanche, spending a lot of time doing full stop landings and T&G's. Some guys are telling me to leave the gear down, less wear and tear. Others say gear up and down every time to ingrain the habit.

What say you complex guys?
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Chip Sylverne said:
Still getting comfortable in the Comanche, spending a lot of time doing full stop landings and T&G's. Some guys are telling me to leave the gear down, less wear and tear. Others say gear up and down every time to ingrain the habit.

What say you complex guys?
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Gear up when out of usable runway. (normal T/O)
Gear down on midfield downwind.

Every time.
 
Absolutely every time set the habit, use the list. Your airplane and insurance company will thank you.in my humble but accurate opinion.
 
Bad law of primacy. One day you will come back from a long flight, and fail to put the gear down....
 
Leave the aux fuel pump on if carb., bring the gear up and bring 'em back down once established downwind. That's what I would do. No reason to climb out with the gear down. Also if you have electric flaps it uses the same motor and transmission, so by that reasoning are you doing no flap landings? : ) I have manual flaps on my bird and am happy about that. I would also recommend full stop and taxi back to give yourself some time to reconfigure the airplane once off the runway and reflect on your past landing performance.
 
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I'm surprised you're doing pattern work in such a complex aircraft. Many many things to do all quickly and all important. Very task saturated environment.
 
steingar said:
I'm surprised you're doing pattern work in such a complex aircraft. Many many things to do all quickly and all important. Very task saturated environment.
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Except it's not.
 
If you don't put it up how you going to get practice on the emergency extension procedure? :D
 
comanche pilot said:
+1 A very true statement. :yes:
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Seriously? That statement is not even remotely true.
Putting the gear down on downwind is not a task saturated environment.
And if it is, maybe you should find a new hobby, like breeding pet rocks.
 
In absence of something else on the checklist I would bring them up and down.
 
Complicated how?
If you are sitting and reading this and you cannot close your eyes and point to where each instrument and control you will set/change/use to perform a TOL is located spatially and call out the appropriate speeds, etc you are badly in need of recurrent or initial training.

Now, as to wear and tear on the gear you can put your hand on the control and verbally call out, "gear coming up", etc. without putting the machinery through the cycle. But then you won't build the muscle memory of subconsciously putting pressure on the yoke to control pitch chage and such.
 
I have done lots of pattern work in the M20J's first when I was initially learning to fly it, and later when I trained for my commercial rating. Yes you should do pattern work and cycle the gear. So that you get in the habit of running the checklist.


Its literally two extra things to do compared to a cherokee. Gear up and prop back on climbout, gear down and prop forward abeam the numbers.
 
EdFred said:
Seriously? That statement is not even remotely true.
Putting the gear down on downwind is not a task saturated environment.
And if it is, maybe you should find a new hobby, like breeding pet rocks.
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Yeah, you got it right, I'm going to go feed my rocks. It's the transition from landing to takeoff that's going to be the high work load and abnormal procedure. Many accidents have occurred due to a miss configured aircraft. When transitioning to a new aircraft, especially a complex, keep it simple. Many pilot examiners in the northwest will fail you for reconfiguring an aircraft while on the landing roll. Speaking of breeding, maybe you can do us all a favor and not do it. :nono:
 
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dell30rb said:
I have done lots of pattern work in the M20J's first when I was initially learning to fly it, and later when I trained for my commercial rating.


Its literally two extra things to do compared to a cherokee. Gear up and prop back on climbout, gear down and prop forward abeam the numbers.
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I go prop forward after it drops below my cruise RPM of 2300. Reduces noise complaints. Don't be that guy that makes excessive noise in the pattern.
 
Gear, flaps, boost pump and prop all while watching for traffic and flying the aircraft. And missing any one of them can make your day turn out really bad. Sounds like a lot to me.
 
comanche pilot said:
Yeah, you got it right, I'm going to go feed my rocks. It's the transition from landing to takeoff that's going to be the high work load and abnormal procedure. Many accidents have occurred due to a miss configured aircraft. When transitioning to a new aircraft, especially a complex, keep it simple. Many pilot examiners in the northwest will fail you for reconfiguring an aircraft while on the landing role. Speaking of breeding, maybe you can do us all a favor and not do it. :nono:
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Pattern work does not necessarily equal touch and gos. Pattern work itself is not a task saturated environment.

Does one audition for a landing role? Is there a casting call for it? I prefer to roll on my landings.
 
steingar said:
Gear, flaps, boost pump and prop all while watching for traffic and flying the aircraft. And missing any one of them can make your day turn out really bad. Sounds like a lot to me.
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Well, you would know considering you own a complex aircraft and fly it quite regularly. Oh, wait...
 
EdFred said:
I go prop forward after it drops below my cruise RPM of 2300. Reduces noise complaints. Don't be that guy that makes excessive noise in the pattern.
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Same... Notice I said abeam the numbers. That's where I reduce the power.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Still getting comfortable in the Comanche, spending a lot of time doing full stop landings and T&G's. Some guys are telling me to leave the gear down, less wear and tear. Others say gear up and down every time to ingrain the habit.

What say you complex guys?
Click to expand...

EdFred said:
Pattern work does not necessarily equal touch and gos. Pattern work itself is not a task saturated environment.

Does one audition for a landing role? Is there a casting call for it? I prefer to roll on my landings.
Click to expand...

Damn it, fixed. :rofl:
 
steingar said:
Gear, flaps, boost pump and prop all while watching for traffic and flying the aircraft. And missing any one of them can make your day turn out really bad. Sounds like a lot to me.
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Part of the commercial checkride is to demonstrate proficiency in a complex airplane. If you can't manage a lap in the pattern, you will fail.

Also I doubt any of the instructors in our club would sign someone off to fly our mooneys if they were not able to manage these things while flying a lap in the pattern.
 
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comanche pilot said:
Damn it, fixed. :rofl:
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Even with the manual flaps on my 250, I don't do T&Gs. I will do S&G's. When I do land, as soon as the nosewheel is down, my hand goes from the throttle, to the flap handle, then to the hand brake (I have no pedal brakes). So even if I was doing T&Gs there's really not much mental saturation going on. The bigger issuse is reaching up to adjust the trim, and that's what actually has me not do T&Gs. The throttle, flap, brake, isn't even done concsiously anymore, so there's no task saturation. Now if it were a flap switch near the gear switch, no T&Gs.
 
In my Arrow, I do my pattern work exactly as I would normally fly the airplane. Prelanding checklist right after turning downwind, drop the gear midfield downwind. If you need more time then fly a longer upwind. I don't find that I need to do that but nothing wrong if you do.
 
Raise the gear. As someone else pointed out, why would you want to climb out with the gear down. Imagine rejected landings as well. No half-assed go arounds (I caught my wife doing this). Full power, flaps to the appropriate setting, and gear up when there's a positive rate of climb.

Gear goes down on the prelanding check (either upon entering the downwind or in range) and confirmed on final. *ALWAYS*.
 
Mine's a Cardinal not a Comanche, but an RG so complex. A month or so ago I had a gear downlock indication failure twice in a row, and elected to finish my night currency run with the gear down. (Problem is now -- hopefully -- fixed.)

So I've done pattern work both ways. But cycling the gear normally is very much preferable as it helps to establish good habits.
 
azure said:
Mine's a Cardinal not a Comanche, but an RG so complex. A month or so ago I had a gear downlock indication failure twice in a row, and elected to finish my night currency run with the gear down. (Problem is now -- hopefully -- fixed.)

So I've done pattern work both ways. But cycling the gear normally is very much preferable as it helps to establish good habits.
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I think book says 10° flaps for take offs on that right? That's the issue with doing T&Gs with a non-0° flap take off. Too much time looking inside instead of outside. Plus 'lectric flaps are way too slow. Better off with a S&G.
 
Sort of with Ed here. If you are task saturated doing T&G in a single engine retract after a couple of hours practice perhaps you might want to reconsider what kind of aircraft you need to be operating. JMO.
 
dell30rb said:
I have done lots of pattern work in the M20J's first when I was initially learning to fly it, and later when I trained for my commercial rating. Yes you should do pattern work and cycle the gear. So that you get in the habit of running the checklist.


Its literally two extra things to do compared to a cherokee. Gear up and prop back on climbout, gear down and prop forward abeam the numbers.
Click to expand...

That is what I did, but it was a bit of task underload when I got back in Champ.

landing checklists as as I recall...

M20...

Ram air - off
Cowl Flaps, closed
Carb heat - on
Fuel Pump - on
Gas - fullest tank
Undercarriage- Down
Mixture - Rich
Prop - Forward
Flaps - set for landing

Champ
Carb heat - on,
 
My Opinion...
Yes, you should cycle the gear, because when your instructor manages to distract you enough that you are still on short final with the Gear retracted and the instructor has to intervene to keep you from landing it gear up, it will sink in how close you came to actually landing it gear up.

This will help cement in your brain, that you need to check, double check, and check again that the gear is down.

Brian
 
I don't like to do pattern work in my plane - I don't like the wear and tear on the gear. Even If I DID choose to leave the gear up, it wouldn't reach normal pattern altitude anyway, without flying a very long and wide pattern.

Gear is up and down per checklist, every time.
 
EdFred said:
I think book says 10° flaps for take offs on that right? That's the issue with doing T&Gs with a non-0° flap take off. Too much time looking inside instead of outside. Plus 'lectric flaps are way too slow. Better off with a S&G.
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10* flaps is optional but preferred. Agree, generally. My checkout CFI had me doing T&Gs about 10 years ago. I think that was probably the last time I did them in a Cardinal.

Besides, for night currency purposes T&Gs are worthless. ;)
 
steingar said:
I'm surprised you're doing pattern work in such a complex aircraft. Many many things to do all quickly and all important. Very task saturated environment.
Click to expand...

Complex airplanes don't use patterns?!? :confused:
 
EdFred said:
I think book says 10° flaps for take offs on that right? That's the issue with doing T&Gs with a non-0° flap take off. Too much time looking inside instead of outside. Plus 'lectric flaps are way too slow. Better off with a S&G.
Click to expand...

You can take off with no flaps in a Cardinal RG, but it really works better at 10.

The rotation has to be really subtle with no flaps or you settle back on the runway after rotation.
 
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