G5 ILS & LPV approach display choice

AI approach presentation on a G5

  • Single Cue (command bars)

    Votes: 4 40.0%

  • Dual Cue (more of a CDI format)

    Votes: 6 60.0%
  • Total voters
    10
Briar Rabbit

Briar Rabbit

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Rob
The G5 AI presentation when combined with a GFC500 has two options for displaying the glide slope & localizer guidance information - single cue with command bars or dual cue that more closely resembles the needles on a CDI. Based upon a recommendation from a former flight instructor that has several thousand hours flying CJ's we have ours set up as a single cue display. I am curious how many pilots prefer the dual cue presentation?

Single Cue Dual Cue choice.JPG
 
I don’t know know how to interpret the dual cue one ... may be I will learn something from POA today
 
Briar Rabbit said:
The G5 AI presentation when combined with a GFC500 has two options for displaying the glide slope & localizer guidance information - single cue with command bars or dual cue that more closely resembles the needles on a CDI. Based upon a recommendation from a former flight instructor that has several thousand hours flying CJ's we have ours set up as a single cue display. I am curious how many pilots prefer the dual cue presentation?

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I'm curious what the G5 single cue looks like when banked.
 
WannFly said:
I don’t know know how to interpret the dual cue one ... may be I will learn something from POA today
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If the yellow is positioned snug inside the magenta as pictured, then you're on course and slope.
 
Here is an example of when the single cue command bars are telling the pilot to climb nose up 5 degrees and bank to the left.

The green diamonds on the glide slope are telling the pilot he is above (edited) the glide slope and the green localizer diamond shows the aircraft is to the right of the desired course, ie. the desired course is to his left just as a CDI needle would represent.

upload_2020-1-3_18-17-28.png
 
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I would disagree and say this indication is not tracking ILS/GS, as the indications show the pilot as above glideslope with pitch mode engaged
 
Trevor Sherba said:
I would disagree and say this indication is not tracking ILS/GS, as the indications show the pilot as above glideslope with pitch mode engaged
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You are correct, I had a brain cramp. But do you agree the flight director bars are telling the pilot to pitch up? Must be a TOGA command and to turn left to get back on course. I will edit my previous post, thanks.
 
Briar Rabbit said:
The G5 AI presentation when combined with a GFC500 has two options for displaying the glide slope & localizer guidance information - single cue with command bars or dual cue that more closely resembles the needles on a CDI.
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I believe those cues are flight director commands and not GS/LOC information (at least not directly). They are commands given to the autopilot if the autopilot were engaged. If the autopilot is off, then they are commands given to the human pilot. Guidance is still the green deviation "needles" in the post #5 screenshot. You can turn off the flight director and the command bars will go away but the green "needles" will still remain. The key takeaway here is that if the autopilot goes inoperable then the cues go away. Also, that the cue could be saying something different than the needles (autopilot in the wrong mode, for example).

That said, I prefer single cue but I frequently turn off the FD to practice flying the "needles".
 
Happens! It is requesting a climbing left turn to climb to the selected altitude at a selected airspeed and VS. You'll also see the rate of turn indicator below the ball is indicating a bit more than a half standard rate turn to the left while the indicator doesn't depict a turn; more or less, I think the image is just a way of showing all the information the unit is capable of displaying
 
Trevor Sherba said:
Happens! It is requesting a climbing left turn to climb to the selected altitude at a selected airspeed and VS. You'll also see the rate of turn indicator below the ball is indicating a bit more than a half standard rate turn to the left while the indicator doesn't depict a turn; more or less, I think the image is just a way of showing all the information the unit is capable of displaying
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That makes sense, not many places will you be on a glide slope at 8,400 feet either? I just thought for those pilots not familiar with the command bar concept I would throw in another visual from Garmin's examples. Did it a bit too quickly without thinking it through.
 
I’ve flown both types of flight directors. I may have a slight bias towards the single cue, but really it’s easy to get used to either.

Is it user-selectable? If so, then try them both and see what you like. If it requires the shop to change it, then just go with the single cue and you’ll be perfectly happy.
 
Briar Rabbit said:
Here is an example of when the single cue command bars are telling the pilot to climb nose up 5 degrees and bank to the left.

The green diamonds on the glide slope are telling the pilot he is above (edited) the glide slope and the green localizer diamond shows the aircraft is to the right of the desired course, ie. the desired course is to his left just as a CDI needle would represent.

View attachment 81603
Click to expand...

Love to see the same example in dual cue
 
Dual cue for me is easier to fly more precisely. Used the v-bars for many years and after 10 minutes with the dual cue, I was hooked. It’s slick!

That said, I haven’t used them in a Garmin product, but from your picture, it looks good.
 
Dual Cue is what is used on Boeing and Airbuses. I'd go for that as it is very precise. Nice to have the choice though.
 
Single cue, dual cue... they both work fine. Try ‘em both and see which one you prefer.

For my preference on this one I guess I’m an oddity as I could go either way; this attitude was brought on years ago at my airline with its 737 fleet. We flew -300s, -500s, NG -7/8/900s. The -300s had an old school round dial cockpit with single cue (V-bar) flight directors, while the -500s and NGs had dual cue flight directors. We’d fly them interchangeably, one leg in an old single cue -300, next leg in a shiny new -900ER with full EFIS and dual cues. No biggie, your brain gets used to it and it just works out. Once we parked all the -3/500s we’re now all EFIS NGs with dual cue, so that’s what I’m used to now.

So, what to use when I get my G5s installed? Hmm. I’ll try both, but can see ending up dual cue.
 
jbDC9 said:
Single cue, dual cue... they both work fine. Try ‘em both and see which one you prefer.

For my preference on this one I guess I’m an oddity as I could go either way; this attitude was brought on years ago at my airline with its 737 fleet. We flew -300s, -500s, NG -7/8/900s. The -300s had an old school round dial cockpit with single cue (V-bar) flight directors, while the -500s and NGs had dual cue flight directors. We’d fly them interchangeably, one leg in an old single cue -300, next leg in a shiny new -900ER with full EFIS and dual cues. No biggie, your brain gets used to it and it just works out. Once we parked all the -3/500s we’re now all EFIS NGs with dual cue, so that’s what I’m used to now.

So, what to use when I get my G5s installed? Hmm. I’ll try both, but can see ending up dual cue.
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With a single cue, the FD bars will depict the desired bank angle (e.g. shallow for a DME arc versus steeper for a parallel entry to a hold) and then you match it with the attitude. How does that work with dual cue? Seems that you only know "roll left" (or right) but you don't directly know how much bank angle to apply. I suppose you can interpolate the offset and translate that to a bank angle but it seems like extra work.
 
I believe the single is more popular because more people have flown with that presentation. Personally I like the dual.
 
ive flown them both also and prefer the dual que. the dual que does in a way depict bank angle. you just roll in to put the box (in the g5 case,the dot) on the bar and that is the bank angle need. it will move farther out if a greater angle is need and move closer in for less bank angle. I find i can fly a lot more precise with the dual que, keep the cross hairs in the box(on the dot) and it will be right on. i think the dual que gives a better coupling between pitch need and bank need because of the box center (or dot) vs the wings on a single.
 
unsafervguy said:
ive flown them both also and prefer the dual que. the dual que does in a way depict bank angle. you just roll in to put the box (in the g5 case,the dot) on the bar and that is the bank angle need. it will move farther out if a greater angle is need and move closer in for less bank angle. I find i can fly a lot more precise with the dual que, keep the cross hairs in the box(on the dot) and it will be right on. i think the dual que gives a better coupling between pitch need and bank need because of the box center (or dot) vs the wings on a single.
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Seems like it would be easier for a beginner to overshoot the correction. Say you're doing a parallel entry to a hold and you go a bit wide, so you crank in a bunch of bank angle to recenter the vertical line but then it's right about the time the FD wants you to be rolling out.

I guess I'll have to play around with it some more.
 
The people that I’ve spoken to all like the dual cue over the single cue but it really comes down to preference. I’ve only been exposed to single cue.
 
asicer said:
Seems like it would be easier for a beginner to overshoot the correction. Say you're doing a parallel entry to a hold and you go a bit wide, so you crank in a bunch of bank angle to recenter the vertical line but then it's right about the time the FD wants you to be rolling out.

I guess I'll have to play around with it some more.
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Don’t over think it. It will put you where you need to be. Put the dot on the crosshairs and keep it there.
 
asicer said:
With a single cue, the FD bars will depict the desired bank angle (e.g. shallow for a DME arc versus steeper for a parallel entry to a hold) and then you match it with the attitude. How does that work with dual cue? Seems that you only know "roll left" (or right) but you don't directly know how much bank angle to apply. I suppose you can interpolate the offset and translate that to a bank angle but it seems like extra work.
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The amount of pitch or roll required in dual cue depends on how much deviated the bar goes. As soon as you start complying it shall begin to center if the action required was small. Full deflection will center again as you comply (30 deg bank angle for instance) and remain centered as long as you keep the bank angle, until directed otherwise.

I like single cue still, but I've had trouble identifying small/precise changes. In ither words, you think you're "matched" when actually you are not complying 100%.
 
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Anyone know how to have the V bar displayed with a Century 2000 AP on the G5? I have dual G5’s and have the Century 2000 AP selected. I just wish I had the V bar on the AI.


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Fracpilot said:
Anyone know how to have the V bar displayed with a Century 2000 AP on the G5? I have dual G5’s and have the Century 2000 AP selected. I just wish I had the V bar on the AI.


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The flight director command bars described in this thread is part of the GFC500 autopilot, no GFC then no flight director.
 
bnt83 said:
The flight director command bars described in this thread is part of the GFC500 autopilot, no GFC then no flight director.
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Makes sense. Thanks.


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Briar Rabbit said:
Makes sense - the altitude bug in the picture is set for 8,700.
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Yeah. I was just saying that we see that quite a bit here. But I think as others have said, that’s a demo graphic and completely arbitrary.
 
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