freedom to fly?(shackles), flight planning blues

exncsurfer

exncsurfer

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exncsurfer
Student pilot here, just getting in to the nitty gritty of flight planning. The 'freedom to fly' is starting to feel more like shackles...

Mired in details and numbers and steps and .... serenity now!! I could've walked there by now.


Haha, seriously though, do you get used to this?
 
jimbilly said:
Student pilot here, just getting in to the nitty gritty of flight planning. The 'freedom to fly' is starting to feel more like shackles...

Mired in details and numbers and steps and .... serenity now!! I could've walked there by now.


Haha, seriously though, do you get used to this?
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Yes. And for many they automated tools take the load after you've really learned what does into the planning. I usually use WingX Pro to do my flight plans now.

But don't skimp on this part of your training, though some will encourage you to. They cry "Why bother! The tools do all that for you!" But your understanding of the process and the factors will let you make better decisions and understand when the tool lets you down. Which it will, sooner or later.

"A tool, no matter how wonderful, is no substitute for understanding the problem."

John
 
After passing the knowledge and practical exams, most pilots develop shortcuts (or buy equipment that will....) eliminate the grunt work you are doing now. But to call yourself a pilot you must be able to navigate without all of the bells and whistles and fall back on basics. If you have never learned the basics....

Bob Gardner
 
bobmrg said:
After passing the knowledge and practical exams, most pilots develop shortcuts (or buy equipment that will....) eliminate the grunt work you are doing now. But to call yourself a pilot you must be able to navigate without all of the bells and whistles and fall back on basics. If you have never learned the basics....

Bob Gardner
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Right, thanks for the input Bob.
 
Knowledge is not a shackle. Almost exactly the opposite.

Learning is also not a shackle. It takes effort, but it is not a limitation. Ignorance can be a limitation. Worse, it can be a limitation without the PIC knowing it is.

There is always something to learn. Flying or otherwise.
 
MAKG1 said:
Knowledge is not a shackle. Almost exactly the opposite.

Learning is also not a shackle. It takes effort, but it is not a limitation. Ignorance can be a limitation. Worse, it can be a limitation without the PIC knowing it is.

There is always something to learn. Flying or otherwise.
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Yea, maybe I should've said heaping burden of details.

I suspect the firehose effect should subside as I do a few.

:)
 
Once you have some experience and can use the modern flight planning stuff like ForeFlight, its no longer a chore.

But you need to go through all of the motions of manual flight planning for the test and also it will force you to think through each flight more, resulting in less of a chance that you make a mistake with serious consequences.

It does become a freedom once you put in all the work!
 
Learn how to calculate flight plans the manual way. It takes a long time and it feels daunting but what you learn will be valuable. You need to be able to catch an error and navigate without when your software uses a wrong waypoint or your hardware quits out all together.
I can create/file/get briefing/ check weight and balance for any IFR flight and have all my numbers calculated as close as the wind forecasts are accurate all within 3 minutes using foreflight.
Once you learn the "code" of flight planning, you will use foreflight or something similar and flight planning will no longer be a shackle
 
And keep in mind that Foreflight is not the only tool.

It's not even that good. And its interface will be considered "quaint" in 5-10 years; such is the nature of technology.

FalconView/PFPS is quite a bit different, though you won't run into that unless you do Federal work (military or civilian). But, fundamentally, it's doing largely the same thing.
 
The more you do flight planning, the easier it becomes. Hang in there!
 
Learn it the most basic manual way now as a student.

Later on with tools such as foreflight and fltplan you'll find that all your planning can be done in very little time.

For IFR you should be able to get a random destination, have all your planning done, flight plan filed and be walking out the door in under 10 minutes, VFR, well under that.

It just comes with time.
 
jsstevens said:
Yes. And for many they automated tools take the load after you've really learned what does into the planning. I usually use WingX Pro to do my flight plans now.

But don't skimp on this part of your training, though some will encourage you to. They cry "Why bother! The tools do all that for you!" But your understanding of the process and the factors will let you make better decisions and understand when the tool lets you down. Which it will, sooner or later.

"A tool, no matter how wonderful, is no substitute for understanding the problem."

John
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This is good advise. I had to learn calculus in College on my way to getting my engineering degree. Since then, I have never had to solve a single integral, but that studying has gone a long way in helping me understand problems that I have encountered in my professional life. It is important to learn the basic building block principals in training.
 
Thanks for the responses everyone, good stuff.
 
Students tend to put far too many waypoints on their flight plan.
 
MAKG1 said:
And keep in mind that Foreflight is not the only tool.

It's not even that good. And its interface will be considered "quaint" in 5-10 years; such is the nature of technology.

FalconView/PFPS is quite a bit different, though you won't run into that unless you do Federal work (military or civilian). But, fundamentally, it's doing largely the same thing.
Click to expand...

You say its not that good? Foreflight and Garmin Pilot are the best we have. Georeference approach plates, terrain, traffic, past atc routings, all flight planning practically done for you followed by simple Filing and decoded weather briefing with pictures along with the ability to send a flight plan directly to the plane's gps to be flown.
If there is something better out there now, please share! I want it.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
You say its not that good? Foreflight and Garmin Pilot are the best we have. Georeference approach plates, terrain, traffic, past atc routings, all flight planning practically done for you followed by simple Filing and decoded weather briefing with pictures along with the ability to send a flight plan directly to the plane's gps to be flown.
If there is something better out there now, please share! I want it.
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No, it's not the best "we" have except for a very narrow meaning of "we."

It will not do vertical planning. There are tools that will. That's a massive hole it has, that some other tools do not. It has some type of secret vertical calculation data, and they don't even bother to tell you the TOD they must have calculated to get a time, which would be rather useful. Except many of us have multiple TODs, and there is no way to deal with that within Foreflight.

I'm sure you must have found some "interesting" weather decoding by now. And the pictures are useless. They are all the same, and make download times very long. Oh, and they broke yesterday. No weather briefings for a short time; it hung up on … the picture downloads. Other internet worked fine, including ADDS. Good thing, that.

And that nav log is not at all easy to deal with. fltplan.com does a significantly better job.

It's a decent tool within a limited range. It has a pretty good editor, but it still requires a lot of precise gestures to get it done. It's not the end of technology. Far from it.

Oh, and have fun dealing with TEC and "preferred IFR" routes. We don't have many locally, but they sure do in southern CA. Foreflight can decode them, but there is no way to know what they are ahead of time aside from a paper A/FD.
 
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jimbilly said:
Student pilot here, just getting in to the nitty gritty of flight planning. The 'freedom to fly' is starting to feel more like shackles...

Mired in details and numbers and steps and .... serenity now!! I could've walked there by now.


Haha, seriously though, do you get used to this?
Click to expand...

When I first started studying to become a pilot, I found the number of things to be learned rather intimidating. My solution was to tell myself that I only needed to learn one thing at a time. It worked!

Other than that, as others have said, once you learn the fundamentals, there are various tools to make flight planning easier and more effective. You will eventually discover which methods and tools work best for you.
 
MAKG1 said:
No, it's not the best "we" have except for a very narrow meaning of "we."

It will not do vertical planning. There are tools that will. That's a massive hole it has, that some other tools do not. It has some type of secret vertical calculation data, and they don't even bother to tell you the TOD they must have calculated to get a time, which would be rather useful. Except many of us have multiple TODs, and there is no way to deal with that within Foreflight.

I'm sure you must have found some "interesting" weather decoding by now. And the pictures are useless. They are all the same, and make download times very long. Oh, and they broke yesterday. No weather briefings for a short time; it hung up on … the picture downloads. Other internet worked fine, including ADDS. Good thing, that.

And that nav log is not at all easy to deal with. fltplan.com does a significantly better job.

It's a decent tool within a limited range. It has a pretty good editor, but it still requires a lot of precise gestures to get it done. It's not the end of technology. Far from it.

Oh, and have fun dealing with TEC and "preferred IFR" routes. We don't have many locally, but they sure do in southern CA. Foreflight can decode them, but there is no way to know what they are ahead of time aside from a paper A/FD.
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Vertical Planning is in the GTN 750. Not a real necessity for foreflight in my eyes. Would be cool, but not a big thing. Probably will have it in the future.
I'm guessing TOD means time of departure. You plug that in when you file or flight plan. A piece of software can't predict the future.
If something isn't working 1800WXBrief isn't going anywhere. All internet based programs go down time to time. Foreflight isn't guaranteed to work 100% of the time. Never will be. RAIM doesn't even have a 100% dispatch rate..
I don't know what I would change about the NavLog. It contains everything someone would want and more. It even includes the weather for the underlying airports.
I fly in So-Cal often, and am very familiar with the TEC routes. I don't understand what you said there about ahead of time, but I can pick up a Tec route and have it loaded in both Foreflight and the 750 within about 20 seconds... Yes, you do have to confirm with the AFD. That is also on Foreflight and the first page of the TEC routes is bookmarked for easy access.

If you aren't familiar with TEC routes, you don't file. You call ground tell them you are ready to taxi and want IFR to wherever. By the time you are ready to takeoff they read you your clearance and you go. There is nothing to know ahead of time other then you are LIKELY to get one of the published routings. Instance, you have KSEE KHHR in your Edit box. You get your clearance and they say Vectors Oceanside then the San Diego November 7 route. You hit Routes, hit SANN7 and boom the whole route is loaded. Hit the button to load to the 750. Boom. Check the AFD, and it matches and you contact tower to go. I don't know how that can be any more simplified unless ATC loaded the clearance remotely into your box for you...
Garmin is similar to Foreflight, differences and a little more than aesthetic.

Are you suggesting that fltplan.com is better?
I have it on my Ipad and find it to be useless compared to Foreflight. There isn't anything I could do on it I can't do on foreflight.

If you are suggesting Foreflight isn't perfect... thats obvious, still lots to look forward too.
 
TOD = top of descent. Foreflight does calculate that, but it doesn't expose it.

You said it was "the best we have." It's an adequate tool, but honestly, there are much better ones out there for missions that may not fit the "climb at constant ROC, level off, descend" model. Predicting top of climb for a long climb might be useful, and some tools can do that (yes, including fltplan.com). Long climbs are not at constant ROC. And "long" climbs for some models (e.g., Warriors) are done for nearly every IFR flight over even modest terrain. You can't do 500 FPM in a Warrior at max gross over 4000 DA.
 
It does get easier. You will probably even learn things you won't use beyond the check ride. They are all important for building a good base and it requires a lot of work. To your final question though the saying goes "if you have time and money to spare go by air". I have many flights under my belt that would have been faster or cheaper to drive or walk because they canceled after hours of waiting for weather to clear or because the destination is the same place I left. All for the love of flying. ..and yes it is worth it.
 
You might find flight planning varies between nearly zero to actually quite a bit. Crash and dash on a good weather day, out for two hours alone? Online weather brief, check NOTAMS for where you're going and TFRs, and done. If it's possible to get a 172 out of CG with one person on board and nothing else, I haven't found it, so no W&B. Going to a familiar field 30 miles away, I'm not even mucking with fuel/flight planning.

VFR cross-country, then closer look at the weather, maybe fuel planning if it's far enough, winds aloft, and pick a good (and appropriate) altitude. Alone? Not gonna do a W&B. Add a friend, stil maybe not. . .add two, then yeah, probably.

IFR, then looking at a lot more detail on weather, alternates, fuel. ..

It'll shake out for you.
 
I always enjoyed the flight planning,and when I actually got to my destination it was great. Now I use foreflight,but occasionally I still use the old method.
 
Flight planning is the key to Freedom!

With your PPL and access to a small plane, you are very free to move around the country. Much more so than if you are limited to the couple of dozen airports that the airline using that slogan goes to. I can land my plane at several thousand airports here in the Lower 48. Freedom!!

But it's hard to exercise this freedom if you can't plan your flight. Unlike road trips, there are no big green signs hanging in the sky, pointing towards the exits . . . You gotta know where you're going and how to get there.

And yes, it get better. And easier. :yesnod:
 
I check TFR's and notams at a stoplight, might get the winds aloft for curiosities sake. Give distance and fuel a wag and kick the tires light the fires.


Not really that casual but its really not bad. When doing X-C's If theres not any notams and no weather I'll just draw a faint line on the sectional and just pick a waypoint in the air. Granted I'm on the east coast so navigating via glancing at a sectional is really easy.


I remember my first XC plan I had checkpoints every 5 miles and all the data for each one now if I did a little 50nm XC my plan would be "go that way and you'll eventually run into it" lol
 
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Does anyone really fill out the flight log (manually) after their ppl?
 
Kritchlow said:
Does anyone really fill out the flight log (manually) after their ppl?
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When I was a student I remember looking at one of those and thinking there is no way every pilot fills one of these out before they go somewhere. If they do I'll just drive because that much math isn't for me.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
When I was a student I remember looking at one of those and thinking there is no way every pilot fills one of these out before they go somewhere. If they do I'll just drive because that much math isn't for me.
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Yeah.... It just doesn't happen. I get it about the whole learning thing, but after the PPL....
 
I have always used some software (be it DUATS's flight planner or whatever) to generate the times and fuel burns, but usually unless there's an IFR route to follow or some required bend in the route (like going to OSHKOSH via the Chicago shoreline) I don't put in any waypoints other than the destination.

The GPS is telling me if the ETA is different than forecast. :)
 
Kritchlow said:
Does anyone really fill out the flight log (manually) after their ppl?
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I do, it is a really good way to track fuel. My checkpoint spacing is airspeed/(3 or 4) and I plot it all out even when using a GPS for any flight that is cross-country.

It isn't that much math in the flight: write down take off time, add time till next checkpoint and write down expected time of arrival at checkpoint, make sure the times match if not determine why and how it will affect your fuel, repeat for each checkpoint.

I think a lot of people would stop running out of fuel if they stuck to this.
 
I've done the paper process in both civilian and military flying and transitioned to the computer planning that we have today. While the old paper sectional / 1:50,000 map planning was a pain, it helped me become more familiar with my route and understand the different types of courses and the effect of winds aloft. Even aircraft performance planning the old fashion way you'll learn the effects of CG loading and DA better if you're calculating it out on your own instead of throwing some numbers in a computer and it telling you that you're good to go.

Having that basic background of old school planning will make the transition easier to the computerized format. After that, you'll streamline it down to your own efficient system. In EMS for instance, planning for a route is essentially a phone call and airborne 5 minutes later. We've got everything planned and canned to make the process as quick as possible.
 
I have not in many decades - just no real value in it, to justify the time.
 
bullwinkle said:
But it recalcs on the fly, as your GS changes. It's always correct at the moment you look at it.
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But it won't tell you your ETA unless you keep constant ground speed. When you land, your ETA will say "now" but it may not be the same time it said an hour earlier This could be a problem if flying into increasing headwinds.

Your ground speed at a given time may be correct, but your ETA is not.
 
MAKG1 said:
But it won't tell you your ETA unless you keep constant ground speed. When you land, your ETA will say "now" but it may not be the same time it said an hour earlier This could be a problem if flying into increasing headwinds.

Your ground speed at a given time may be correct, but your ETA is not.
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No, but your flight log doesn't do any better.
 
flyingron said:
No, but your flight log doesn't do any better.
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Yes it does if you don't assume the same winds everywhere.

You get into trouble if it changes with time, but it's strictly better than a GPS in space.

And I don't know about you, but I cruise a lot faster than I climb, and it's not unheard of to get climbs at other than the beginning of a flight. Such as climbing over enroute mountains or even for traffic avoidance at any time (that happened to me last weekend -- ATC gave me a climb and a hold when transitioning to Livermore ILS).
 
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