ForeFlight to drop iPad 1, iPhone 3G, iOS 5 support

Folks,

Update: 5.4 will work on iPad 1. So, no changes in what devices are supported currently. There's a very small percentage of folks that still use an iPad 1 in the cockpit, and the number has been dropping significantly every month. However, we're going to reach out to each of them individually to see what their preferences / intentions are with respect to iPad 1 and new devices so that we have even better information than we do already.

-tyson
Co-Founder / ForeFlight
 
Folks,

Update: 5.4 will work on iPad 1. So, no changes in what devices are supported currently. There's a very small percentage of folks that still use an iPad 1 in the cockpit, and the number has been dropping significantly every month. However, we're going to reach out to each of them individually to see what their preferences / intentions are with respect to iPad 1 and new devices so that we have even better information than we do already.

-tyson
Co-Founder / ForeFlight

Pretty cool Tyson. Asking customers is impressive in today's gadget throwaway-industry.
 
Yeah, I meant $233.

Actually, it costs me more money in other ways, with limited usefulness as a result of Apple's decisions to prevent the device from doing certain things. I've already documented how the limitations on the photo port & inability to write to outside memory make it un-useful for my photo work. No Flash has limited some web functionality on sites I use. And by impeding reload of the version of the software that works on the 1 (which can only be reinstalled if you have backed it up with iTunes), you lose one feature that makes the iPad useful: ability to reload software from the store if your device fails.

All in all, the iPad really adds little or nothing compared to what I get on phones & my netbook/desktop computers. Were it not for FF, I could not justfy the cost of owning it. And this decision puts even that justification on the edge.

I probably would not mind as much if this were on Android as those devices are much less expensive. But when it involves the premium-priced iPad, the proposition becomes very expensive, very quickly.

I'd say that your thought process is a bit skewed.

No one needs a high-end iPad to run FF. A 16GB model will do, perhaps 32GB depending on what else you want to load. I have more than half the country loaded (the eastern half) for VFR and IFR, and FF + data occupies a little over 5GB.

It's been mentioned before that the iPad isn't really a laptop replacement. I can do perhaps 80-90% of the things I do on a laptop on the iPad with greater convenience, meaning better portability, environmental adaptability, persistent data connection, and much longer battery life. For use in the cockpit, a netbook or laptop isn't anywhere close to as practical as a tablet.

You do know that Adobe killed Mobile Flash a while ago, right? Just checking. Sites which still use traditional Flash need to be using technology more suitable for a mobile platform.

It's interesting how companies like Apple become victims of their own successes. It's tough to find two different Android devices that run the same version of the OS, or are even CAPABLE of running the same version of the OS, yet when Apple or iOS developers sunset software updates for older devices, folks scream. Paying half as much for a device that stops receiving OS updates a year from now (or worse, has them controlled by a wireless carrier) is no deal in my book.

With that being said, this particular issue with FF seems like a FF issue and not an Apple issue. I would tend to agree that FF should fork the app and continue to provide the existing version to users of older hardware for a period of time, perhaps 12 to 24 months. At some point, though, the plug is going to be pulled. You didn't buy a software DVD, you bought a software subscription, and that model unfortunately enables publishers to force upgrades.


JKG
 
I'd say that your thought process is a bit skewed.

No one needs a high-end iPad to run FF. A 16GB model will do, perhaps 32GB depending on what else you want to load. I have more than half the country loaded (the eastern half) for VFR and IFR, and FF + data occupies a little over 5GB.

I load the entire country for a variety of reasons. For FF to be useful to folks like Ted (and me, too), then it needs to have the capacity to load the current charts for the entire country and the next cycle when it comes out.

I travel - a lot - and I take a lot of photos in RAW. Right now, my iPad 2 is more than 50% full. I need a 64. I suspect many others do, too.

It's been mentioned before that the iPad isn't really a laptop replacement. I can do perhaps 80-90% of the things I do on a laptop on the iPad with greater convenience, meaning better portability, environmental adaptability, persistent data connection, and much longer battery life. For use in the cockpit, a netbook or laptop isn't anywhere close to as practical as a tablet.

So, what you're saying is that someone like me should HAVE to carry a tablet AND a laptop.

I say one device SHOULD be sufficient for photo work, light word processing, email, browsing, etc. And I should be able to save photos back out of the device without sending it to the NSA (er, Apple's cloud or Dropbox).

Ever try and send 4 GB of photos over a hotel wireless internet link out to the internet? Thought not.

You do know that Adobe killed Mobile Flash a while ago, right? Just checking. Sites which still use traditional Flash need to be using technology more suitable for a mobile platform.

Translation: it's someone else's fault.

Yes, I am aware of that. But for some things the mobile website is insufficient... especially when using a device that can/will display the full version just fine.

It's interesting how companies like Apple become victims of their own successes. It's tough to find two different Android devices that run the same version of the OS, or are even CAPABLE of running the same version of the OS, yet when Apple or iOS developers sunset software updates for older devices, folks scream. Paying half as much for a device that stops receiving OS updates a year from now (or worse, has them controlled by a wireless carrier) is no deal in my book.

No, in my mind Apple is the victim of their own design decisions and determination that they know better than their users.

If the device is effectively going to be obsoleted within 2-3 years, then losing updates after a year is a non-issue. If you get a Nexus 7, for example, at 1/3 of the cost of an equivalent Apple product and you keep it for 2 years, you're still ahead of the game. So is the environment in not having to deal with millions of functional but obsolete devices tossed into the trash (not to mention the lower uptake of raw materials).

The business model is one that car manufacturers and others played for many years: ensure that folks have to buy an expensive replacement every couple of years (about the time that their vehicle is paid off). That is until the foreign car makers started producing higher quality product that delivered better value. Simply put, Apple does not deliver value. (Although I'm ragging on Apple here, MS and Google each have substantial shortcomings of their own.)

With that being said, this particular issue with FF seems like a FF issue and not an Apple issue. I would tend to agree that FF should fork the app and continue to provide the existing version to users of older hardware for a period of time, perhaps 12 to 24 months. At some point, though, the plug is going to be pulled. You didn't buy a software DVD, you bought a software subscription, and that model unfortunately enables publishers to force upgrades.

Point of fact: even if you bought a DVD, you acquired a license, not ownership.
 
I load the entire country for a variety of reasons. For FF to be useful to folks like Ted (and me, too), then it needs to have the capacity to load the current charts for the entire country and the next cycle when it comes out.

I travel - a lot - and I take a lot of photos in RAW. Right now, my iPad 2 is more than 50% full. I need a 64. I suspect many others do, too.

I suspect that most do not. Even most folks who use the device for photos aren't uploading from an external source, and even fewer are doing so in RAW. If I were shooting in RAW, I suspect I'd have a use case for post-processing that would require something more than a tablet. It sounds like you've simply chosen the wrong tool for the job.

In any case, you don't need more than a 16 for ForeFlight, so your financial analysis is inaccurate unless you also consider the value the extra expense brings to other uses.

Apple's been clear since the launch of the iPad that it is intended to be a cloud-focused device.


Ever try and send 4 GB of photos over a hotel wireless internet link out to the internet? Thought not.

To be candid, I generally never try to send anything over hotel wireless (or other public wireless networks), because I've found most of them to be underperforming compared with AT&T LTE. That's just my experience.


Translation: it's someone else's fault.

Well, since Adobe killed Mobile Flash, what, exactly, would your proposed solution be other than converting away from traditional Flash-based content? As mobile devices become more ubiquitous, content providers are going to have to convert or find another way to deliver their content to mobile devices. It's inevitable.


No, in my mind Apple is the victim of their own design decisions and determination that they know better than their users.

If that's the case, then many companies would very much like to be similarly victimized. The fact that you have an esoteric use case for a device which was never intended to do what you're trying to do with it is hardly justification for rational criticism. For that matter, these devices were never intended for cockpit use, either, and quite frankly it's amazing that they perform as well as they do in that regard. If all things were equal, would I pick an iPad over a Garmin portable for the cockpit? No way. But all things aren't equal, especially the cost of ownership.


If the device is effectively going to be obsoleted within 2-3 years, then losing updates after a year is a non-issue. If you get a Nexus 7, for example, at 1/3 of the cost of an equivalent Apple product and you keep it for 2 years, you're still ahead of the game. So is the environment in not having to deal with millions of functional but obsolete devices tossed into the trash (not to mention the lower uptake of raw materials).

The original iPad isn't obsolete, and neither are subsequent ones. The vast majority of iOS devices are capable of upgrading to the latest iOS, and Apple's done a reasonably good job of ensuring investment protection in that regard. At the end of the day, all manufacturers want to protect as many revenue streams as they can.


The business model is one that car manufacturers and others played for many years: ensure that folks have to buy an expensive replacement every couple of years (about the time that their vehicle is paid off). That is until the foreign car makers started producing higher quality product that delivered better value. Simply put, Apple does not deliver value. (Although I'm ragging on Apple here, MS and Google each have substantial shortcomings of their own.)

Apple delivers substantially more value than either MS or Google, as I've pointed out (especially regarding value). And Google and MS certainly don't produce a higher-quality product. Inexpensive != value.

I'm not necessarily anti-Google nor pro-Apple. There are plenty of things about iOS and Apple that I don't like, but the reality is that Apple's products work very well and very reliably for most things without a steep learning curve or tinkering. I don't have time to tinker; my electronic devices are tools.


Point of fact: even if you bought a DVD, you acquired a license, not ownership.

Yes, you acquire a license that historically has authorized you to use the product on the DVD in perpetuity. The "App Store" model is essentially a software subscription model, where licenses to use are often time limited and "coin operated."


JKG
 
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And by the way, when it comes to a company collecting data on users, Google is far more guilty than most other entities. It's the number one reason why I generally attempt to avoid using their services.


JKG
 
And by the way, when it comes to a company collecting data on users, Google is far more guilty than most other entities. It's the number one reason why I generally attempt to avoid using their services.

Not to mention their lawsuit against NSA forcing them to release significant data under threat of imprisonment if they talk about it. Their boldness seems to have spilled over to Yahoo's CEO who has started having interviews about the same.

Let's build a worldwide LAN and hook it to our houses and all our mobile phones. What could possibly go wrong? ;)
 
EDIT: They cancelled this

ForeFlight Hi Tyler Pettis - Course correction: 5.4 will work on iPad 1. So, no changes in what devices are supported currently. There's a very small percentage of folks that still use an iPad 1 in the cockpit, and the number has been dropping significantly every month. However, we're going to reach out to each of them individually to see what their preferences / intentions are with respect to iPad 1 and new devices so that we have even better information than we do already.
2 hours ago


It's probably about time to be quite frank. Ipad 1 has been on life support for some time now.

Dropping Ipad1 will allow them to innovate and implement new features which they can't do with older hardware support. The app is also fairly CPU and memory intensive and the ipad 1 is a little dated in that department.

If you're cheap, I'm sure you can get a 32-64gb ipad 3 for $200-300 used, and sell your old ipad for $100.
 
Apple has got a serious problem. Its products are too expensive and now there are more economically priced options to choose from.
 
Apple has got a serious problem. Its products are too expensive and now there are more economically priced options to choose from.

This "problem" is nothing new. Apple products have always had a price premium....yet people still flock to the stores to pick up the newest iToy.
 
Apple has got a serious problem. Its products are too expensive and now there are more economically priced options to choose from.

BMW has a serious problem. Its products are too expensive and now there are more economically priced options to choose from.

Armani has a serious problem. Its products are too expensive and now there are more economically priced options to choose from.

Breitling has a serious problem. Its products are too expensive and now there are more economically priced options to choose from.

Bang & Olufsen has a serious problem. Its products are too expensive and now there are more economically priced options to choose from.

Apple is not in the business of making cheap products. They're in the business of making great products that work really well for 99% of applications. They're not for everybody, and they're never going to be cheap. That's not a "serious problem," it's a strategy that works very well for many companies. Ask most of the rest of the smartphone market - Apple and Samsung are now the only companies who make a profit in smartphones, the rest are break-even or losing money.

Apple's doing just fine.
 
This "problem" is nothing new. Apple products have always had a price premium....yet people still flock to the stores to pick up the newest iToy.

I'm interested to see how well the iPhone 5 series does. I just got the Galaxy 4S with a worldwide radio set.
 
Well, lets see. I know one friend with a leased beamer, no one with a Brietling, no one with Armani, don't even know what Bang and O is .....

Know lots of every day consumers with Apple products.the question is how many of those everyday consumers is Apple going to retain.

Their stock went down last week with the release of products the market thought were out of line with competition.

BMW has a serious problem. Its products are too expensive and now there are more economically priced options to choose from.

Armani has a serious problem. Its products are too expensive and now there are more economically priced options to choose from.

Breitling has a serious problem. Its products are too expensive and now there are more economically priced options to choose from.

Bang & Olufsen has a serious problem. Its products are too expensive and now there are more economically priced options to choose from.

Apple is not in the business of making cheap products. They're in the business of making great products that work really well for 99% of applications. They're not for everybody, and they're never going to be cheap. That's not a "serious problem," it's a strategy that works very well for many companies. Ask most of the rest of the smartphone market - Apple and Samsung are now the only companies who make a profit in smartphones, the rest are break-even or losing money.

Apple's doing just fine.
 
This could be good news to any involved in this situation:

Apple Begins Offering 'Last Compatible' Version of Apps for Users Running Legacy Versions of iOS

So, the development team can just upload updates and (as usual) indicate which versions of iOS they are compatible with. Apple will (in the background) keep a copy of the latest version compatible with older iOS versions, and if somebody with an older device tries to download, Apple will give them the older (compatible) version instead.

Certainly seems cleaner than having to maintain a new "ForeFlight Classic" app, and looks like it doesn't require any action from either the ForeFlight devs or the customer.

Glad this is (?) sorted.
 
This could be good news to any involved in this situation:

Apple Begins Offering 'Last Compatible' Version of Apps for Users Running Legacy Versions of iOS

So, the development team can just upload updates and (as usual) indicate which versions of iOS they are compatible with. Apple will (in the background) keep a copy of the latest version compatible with older iOS versions, and if somebody with an older device tries to download, Apple will give them the older (compatible) version instead.

Certainly seems cleaner than having to maintain a new "ForeFlight Classic" app, and looks like it doesn't require any action from either the ForeFlight devs or the customer.

Glad this is (?) sorted.

Good deal - That's the way it should have been from day one.

But, as previously noted, it sounds like ForeFlight will keep at least another version running on iOS 5 as well. Now that Apple's done this, it'll certainly make the future path easier.
 
Know lots of every day consumers with Apple products.the question is how many of those everyday consumers is Apple going to retain.

Apple is very good at customer retention. Every smartphone platform survey I know of shows that a higher percentage (and it's in the 90's) of iPhone users plans to buy an iPhone next time around than Android users, and a higher percentage plan to switch Android to iOS than the other way around.

Personally, I know of two iPhone users who tried switching to Android and immediately switched back. I don't know anyone who has switched to an Android phone from an iPhone and stayed with it. (And now, let the PoA examples come out of the woodwork. :rofl:)

Their stock went down last week with the release of products the market thought were out of line with competition.

"The market" doesn't know crap about what's in line with what. Look at the history of Apple stock with product announcements - It goes down almost every time (although the iPhone has sometimes bucked the trend). It used to be like clockwork - Every January, Apple would announce something at Macworld Expo. Every time, their stock would run up some the week beforehand, every time it would drop like a rock after the announcement, and every time it would climb to higher than the pre-announcement run-up within a week or two afterwards. Many people, myself included, took advantage of this - I'd always walk away with a few more shares and some cash in my pocket by selling the Thursday or Friday before Macworld and buying in again on Monday or Tuesday. So, thinking that the stock price reflects anything with regards to where the products lie in the market is somewhat ridiculous.
 
I don't know, I just re upped my Android yesterday with a Galaxy 4S from my Mytouch 4G, before that I had an iPhone 3Gs. While I was at the store, which also carries iPhones, 2 other people opted to trade out their iPhones for Androids as well, one anther Galaxy and the other a Note.
 
Then why did they release the 5C? That thing looks like a PoS.

Have you actually seen one in person?

Most of the negative comments I've heard regarding the 5c are from people who haven't seen one, or consider plastic somehow inferior to other materials, despite the fact that most other smartphones are plastic and Apple's smartphones were plastic up until the iPhone 4.

I will admit that I'm not into the "color" thing, but it's tough to make a rational case that a phone offers sub-par quality when history and the market have proven that to be untrue.


JKG
 
Gotta have the Fisher-Price model. That meets the goal (not really their goal, by the way, which was clearly my point) of only high end products.
 
Gotta have the Fisher-Price model. That meets the goal (not really their goal, by the way, which was clearly my point) of only high end products.

To my knowledge, Apple has never stated a goal of providing only "high-end" products. Jobs himself only said that Apple wouldn't ship "junk." Apple has said that they are focused on providing a premium product experience, which by all objective accounts that I've heard, the iPhone 5c delivers.

Apple recovered the company using "low-end" colored plastic computers, music players, and smartphones, marketed to the masses, not the "high-end" elites. They transition to aluminum, and all of a sudden colored plastic is a huge liability. I don't get it. Apple is a mass-market consumer company. They're not Bentley, but they're not Hyundai, either. Tipping to only the "high-end" isn't the business model, and it's a model which has not worked well for them in the past.


JKG
 
Correct. Making some of the claims here, silly. Did you miss those?

Apparently. The claim that Apple isn't in the business of making cheap products is one with which I agree. I wouldn't consider the iPhone 5c cheap by any definition.


JKG
 
Apparently. The claim that Apple isn't in the business of making cheap products is one with which I agree. I wouldn't consider the iPhone 5c cheap by any definition.


JKG

Sprint is using the 5c as a "giveaway" phone on the contract.
 
I'm one that went from Apple to Android (well, I suppose I had an Android first, but even when GIVEN a free iPhone through work, I chose to return it and pay for my own service to avoid using it because it was such garbage).

That said - comparing iPhone to Breitling or BMW is laughable at best. What you've got is a high-dollar tech toy that has attempted (but failed to succeed) in eliminating a significant piece of web-technology that their CEO had a personal beef against. Additionally, it doesn't support user customization or choice in most circumstances, and now its taking its lead from what must be the Pinto of Cell Phones (if iPhone is the BMW...lol) by integrating core functionality that is a direct rip off from that last few years of use - and now, "last compatible version" coming out, which the Android Market and Play Store has done for years as well.

I suppose the sign of being at the top is to stop innovating and start copying. By that measurement, Microsoft is going to take over leadership in 3 months.

Regardless, ForeFlight gets my applause for doing the right thing, but I still maintain that if they're going to sell software, they need a published roadmap with sunset windows so that people that buy their product know how long it will be supported to avoid having this scenario replay itself again.
 
That said - comparing iPhone to Breitling or BMW is laughable at best. What you've got is a high-dollar tech toy that has attempted (but failed to succeed) in eliminating a significant piece of web-technology that their CEO had a personal beef against. Additionally, it doesn't support user customization or choice in most circumstances, and now its taking its lead from what must be the Pinto of Cell Phones (if iPhone is the BMW...lol) by integrating core functionality that is a direct rip off from that last few years of use - and now, "last compatible version" coming out, which the Android Market and Play Store has done for years as well.

Apple's former CEO happened to be correct regarding the technical limitations of Flash on a mobile platform, as confirmed by the fact that Adobe officially killed mobile Flash. Game over.

Apple managed to effectively destroy, almost overnight, a company that had owned the smartphone market for years, they transformed the way people used mobile technology, and the mobile application business model. No one was doing anything like the iPhone or iPad before Apple, which is why Apple was able to have such an impact with those products.

Regarding compatible versions, it's really no surprise that Android utilizes such a "feature," given the extensive fragmentation of the Android user base and the restricted ability to upgrade most Android devices. Apple hasn't had any of those issues until now, and even so, it's only very early devices which are effectively being sunset with OS support (in the case of the iPad, it's still just the iPad 1). Apple offering the ability to download the last compatible version is more a service to their developers and users than it is a necessity due to OS fragmentation.

If Apple possesses such an incredible ability to market "garbage" products, then they're probably the most secure investment on Wall Street. The reality is that people buy Apple products because they like them better than competitor's products, and developers like Apple's mobile platform by a wide margin over the competition because it makes them far more money.

As with any company and its products, there are valid criticisms of Apple. Your highly subjective and apparently largely uninformed opinions aren't among them. There is no disputing that Apple has been wildly successful with their mobile products and the associated business model, which is success that competitors have so far been unable to effectively match.


JKG
 
Siemens Pocket PC Phone Edition did what an iPhone does and more (I could build an Excel spread sheet on it, Word document...) several years before the first iPhone.
 
Siemens Pocket PC Phone Edition did what an iPhone does and more (I could build an Excel spread sheet on it, Word document...) several years before the first iPhone.

But not worth a crap. How many of those did they sell? How many people did you see walking around with them?
 
But not worth a crap. How many of those did they sell? How many people did you see walking around with them?

I used one for a couple of years, T-Mobile sold quite a few. It really had only one great flaw, and that was if you were sweating hard and held the phone to your ear, the sweat would get in the crack and displace the touch screen calibration up and to the left. I fixed this with some candle wax. That and the ring tone wasn't loud enough for loud environments, but vibration worked.

It worked better and sold better than the Newton did lol.
 
But not worth a crap. How many of those did they sell? How many people did you see walking around with them?

Windows Mobile had every feature that the first gen iPhone had for years prior. It failed to compete with BlackBerry because it didn't have the fantastic fanatical fans of the company behind it (when was the last time you saw someone foaming at the mouth praising Microsoft?).

Ultimately, I applaud Apple for one thing: finding a marketing strategy that leaves people with extremely high intelligence honestly believing that they were able to innovate with a mobile platform design, when in fact, they had done nothing new (and in fact, were extremely feature limited - if you remember correctly, the initial launch of the iPhone did not support MMS, Exchange Servers, or 3G at a time when all of these were industry standard basic features on even the least expensive phones) and all at a price point of nearly $500, IIRC.

Had Apple not had rabid fans on day one, before people even had a chance to see what the product had to offer, the iPhone would never have succeeded.

Thank God it did, though, because the iPhone successfully brought the smart phone market into the mainstream - previously, the closest thing to "mainstream" was the BlackBerry Pearl 8100, which was too much phone for most traditional users, but was ahead of its time with some of its features like email and social networking (BBM at the time).

Because the iPhone lazied its way through the first two generations, Android was able to come along and fix everything Apple did wrong. Had the iPhone not existed, I believe Android would have never come along.
 
I used one for a couple of years, T-Mobile sold quite a few. It really had only one great flaw, and that was if you were sweating hard and held the phone to your ear, the sweat would get in the crack and displace the touch screen calibration up and to the left. I fixed this with some candle wax. That and the ring tone wasn't loud enough for loud environments, but vibration worked.

It worked better and sold better than the Newton did lol.

Windows mobile (many different names for it) was also fragmented and programs broke with every new release. It was frustrating to have to redo a program where one "followed the rules" because Microsoft changed the API. Also frustrating was writing a program for a Dell device and finding it wouldn't run on an HP. About the only things that did work were mobile word and mobile xl.

My experience was that it was a developer's nightmare.
 
Windows mobile (many different names for it) was also fragmented and programs broke with every new release. It was frustrating to have to redo a program where one "followed the rules" because Microsoft changed the API. Also frustrating was writing a program for a Dell device and finding it wouldn't run on an HP. About the only things that did work were mobile word and mobile xl.

My experience was that it was a developer's nightmare.

Probably was, but I'm not a developer, I'm an end user. I was able to fill out my paperwork on a boat seizure/repo (condition report and billing) on my way bringing it back to the yard and email it in so when I got the boat tied up my check was waiting for me.
 
(when was the last time you saw someone foaming at the mouth praising Microsoft?).

My new Director last Friday. LOL. I had to go straight for the jugular... What's the annual reoccurring licensing cost for that? Did ya know I can do it for free, handle more traffic, and I'd be running on a fifteen year old machine even? ROFL.

He was actually arguing that BIND couldn't do as good a job at DNS as a Windows server. He looked at me like he didn't get it when I doubled over laughing. Then he tried to claim BIND couldn't do dynamic DNS.

Then he smiled and told me how he is one of three survivors of an all Linux company that was acquired by our new parent company. And that they'd ripped out all of the Linux servers and replaced them with Windows.

I bit my tongue just hard enough that I didn't say that there's a reason why they're in third place behind two much larger competitors. Competitors who utilize whatever technology does the job at the lowest price, that is. ;)

Apparently the Linux geeks who wouldn't drink the kool-aid departed for saner pastures.

It's almost like I'm sticking around to see if trying to rip out the Asterisk architecture and replace it with something on Windows might finally be the point they get knocked upside the head with a cluebat. ROFLMAO. Whap whap whap!
 
Siemens Pocket PC Phone Edition did what an iPhone does and more (I could build an Excel spread sheet on it, Word document...) several years before the first iPhone.

I had a Sony Ericsson phone that pretty much checked all the same brochure boxes as the first release of the iPhone. I still was extremely excited when the iPhone was announced, because I didn't even use some of the features I'd purchased the SE phone for because they were enough of a pain in the ass that it wasn't worth it.

Even if Apple decided to shutter the iPhone business today, I'd still be glad it came out because it opened up a huge new smartphone market that gave birth to Android, which, while it isn't my first choice, is still head and shoulders better than anything that was available prior to the iPhone.
 
Ultimately, I applaud Apple for one thing: finding a marketing strategy that leaves people with extremely high intelligence honestly believing that they were able to innovate with a mobile platform design, when in fact, they had done nothing new (and in fact, were extremely feature limited - if you remember correctly, the initial launch of the iPhone did not support MMS, Exchange Servers, or 3G at a time when all of these were industry standard basic features on even the least expensive phones) and all at a price point of nearly $500, IIRC.

Nick, you've said this several times. What exactly is this supposed "marketing strategy"? How does it work?

Had Apple not had rabid fans on day one, before people even had a chance to see what the product had to offer, the iPhone would never have succeeded.

The reason the iPhone had rabid fans from the announcement is that previous to the iPhone, the user experience on every cell phone sucked. Nokia and Sony Ericsson were at least a tolerable suck, but Motorola was ****. Absolute ****. I had a Moto phone where changing the ringer volume (back in the day before such things had a dedicated switch/buttons on the side of the phone) required something like holding * and # for a few seconds and pressing 7, then 9. Ugh! So glad those days are over.

Because the iPhone lazied its way through the first two generations, Android was able to come along and fix everything Apple did wrong.

I don't think it was "lazy" at all - I think it was a very calculated strategy, with some good reasons behind it.

Had the iPhone not existed, I believe Android would have never come along.

On this, we agree. Of course, having Eric Schmidt on Apple's board of directors during the iPhone development process certainly didn't hurt, either...
 
The marketing strategy was giving/providing low cost Macs to schools in the 80s getting their brand established with an entire generation that was going to be spawning another generation soon.
 
Nick, you've said this several times. What exactly is this supposed "marketing strategy"? How does it work?

This specifically details exactly what I mean: these commercials somehow convinced people that each of these features were brand new.

You may be onto something - maybe Apple had no "marketing strategy" and instead, otherwise intelligent people went full retard and thought it was brand new, but I doubt the accuracy of your insinuation.

The reason the iPhone had rabid fans from the announcement is that previous to the iPhone, the user experience on every cell phone sucked. Nokia and Sony Ericsson were at least a tolerable suck, but Motorola was ****. Absolute ****. I had a Moto phone where changing the ringer volume (back in the day before such things had a dedicated switch/buttons on the side of the phone) required something like holding * and # for a few seconds and pressing 7, then 9. Ugh! So glad those days are over.

You mean 10 years before the iPhone came out? Here's what phones were like right before the iPhone came out:

or, for a more popular phone:

I don't think it was "lazy" at all - I think it was a very calculated strategy, with some good reasons behind it.
There was a calculated reason for forgetting that MMS was (and still is, btw) the defacto method of transmitting photographs between devices? Or choosing a radio that left data users 5 years or more behind their competitors or current feature set?

I don't buy it. It was lazy, and it was proof that Apple could hand down a pile of manure and still have people fawn over it. Again - there was nothing spectacular about the iPhone except the fruit on the back and the new touch screen that was more accurate.

And the laziness continues. I refuse to dig more into the 64 bit iPhone, because I can already tell you the following is true (as it has been for years):

1. The camera is not as good as many of its lower priced competitors
2. The screen is not as high resolution as many of its lower priced competitors
3. There will be some fatal flaw in the design that Apple will offer a work-around (or a smart-assed "You're holding it wrong"esque type of explanation).


On this, we agree. Of course, having Eric Schmidt on Apple's board of directors during the iPhone development process certainly didn't hurt, either...
 
Probably was, but I'm not a developer, I'm an end user. I was able to fill out my paperwork on a boat seizure/repo (condition report and billing) on my way bringing it back to the yard and email it in so when I got the boat tied up my check was waiting for me.
Imagine if they had gotten it right, and not screwed up the OS with every upgrade and every vendor.
 
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