ForeFlight to drop iPad 1, iPhone 3G, iOS 5 support

jesse said:
No I am not an iPad 1 user but I am a software developer, iOS developer, and Foreflight customer and have been for a long time and expect them to operate with a certain degree of responsibility and respect for their customers.
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I run Ipad1. I'm not an old guy, but would like to get years of service out of a device when purchased, not a year or so and then a forced upgrade. I've been with Foreflight for several years. Each August I renew and I usually do so a few days in advance. Foreflight resets my anniversary date to the "new" subscription date. Over three years I've lost over a month now and have to renew next time late July. I'll let it expires a few days next time; unfortunately, I've always needed to update for a trip at the same time as the renewal. Sent e-mail to them and received no response.


Inverted said:
It is pretty funny to expect a 5 year old device to run current programs when the hardware its self is not upgradable. Good luck getting a 5 year old Windows machine to properly run Windows 8 without any hardware upgrades. It also amazes me how it shocks the general public.
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I don't ... but I expect a 3-4 year old that was purchased with all the bells and whistles at the time for over $750 to last more than two years before someone is forcing an upgrade.
 
danhagan said:
I don't ... but I expect a 3-4 year old that was purchased with all the bells and whistles at the time for over $750 to last more than two years before someone is forcing an upgrade.
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This is why I use Android specifically the Nexus 7. I just bought a brand new one with 32GB for $230 after cracking the screen on my old one (could have repaired it for $125). I'm guessing it would cost at least $200 just to repair the screen on the apple. I think the edge apple had that justified the higher price for the device has eroded and will continue to do so. I don't think the ipad is worth 3 times as much as the nexus 7 but each to their own.

As far as aviation apps go I don't know of anything you can do on an ipad you can't do on an android device. I'd also argue FF is losing their edge as they are a single platform app and with GP you have the options to use either. I'm going to predict more and more pilots start moving towards cheaper solutions as the market is saturated or Apple will start to lower their costs.

Looking forward I have much more faith Garmin will be around in 5 years than FF as well and as I said before functionally they are very close. So for me the cost benefit just isn't their for apple and FF.
 
sdpilot said:
I think you both mean you could not care less
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The phrase "I could care less" is widely used and known to be essentially the equivalent of "I could not care less". Whether grammarians are happy or not is moot. The phrase is ubiquitous and widely and accurately understood.

Search the terms on line and you'll find many discussions.

I hope you see that it's an OK phrase to use, but if you don't, I could care less.
 
Why did I only buy a 3 month subscription for Foreflight to run on my iPad1 a couple of months ago?

It's off to android if I can't find anything to run in Windows.

Each of us has different needs. About all I use Foreflight for is as a moving map. The rest of the info in on my panel mounted gear.
 
danhagan said:
I run Ipad1. I'm not an old guy, but would like to get years of service out of a device when purchased, not a year or so and then a forced upgrade.
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If you bought your iPad 1 "a year or so" ago, you bought it used. The iPad 1 came out in early 2010, it's 3 1/2 years old. The 2 1/2 year old iPad 2 is still good to go for a while.

I've been with Foreflight for several years. Each August I renew and I usually do so a few days in advance. Foreflight resets my anniversary date to the "new" subscription date. Over three years I've lost over a month now and have to renew next time late July. I'll let it expires a few days next time; unfortunately, I've always needed to update for a trip at the same time as the renewal. Sent e-mail to them and received no response.
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Hmm... That's not how it's supposed to work. They're also normally very good about responding, try again and if you don't receive a response let me know.
 
I'm bothered by it because I just re-upped my subscription and there was no mention they would no longer support my devises. What a crock of garbage.
 
Will we still be able to get downloads of the maps, just not the new features?
 
teethdoc said:
I'm bothered by it because I just re-upped my subscription and there was no mention they would no longer support my devises. What a crock of garbage.
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I chose my words for the subject line poorly. You'll still have support, you'll still get all the chart updates, you just won't get newer software releases unless you update to iOS 6.
 
teethdoc said:
Will we still be able to get downloads of the maps, just not the new features?
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Need to get my eyes checked seeing as how I missed the HUGE print saying maps would still be available.
 
For the Apple app store, you can set minimum hardware and software requirements, but not a maximum. So yes, they would have to deal with users downloading the wrong version to their iPad 2000. Thus they would need code would check the device, point at the new app, and manage the subscription over to the new version of the app and some other crap that just takes time to code around.

Without reading the blog post (I learned that trick in the slashdot days), they probably see X% of users on iPad 1 are worth $Y per year vs maintaining 2 versions (QA, support, etc) that will cost some value much greater than Y, and decided to fire them.
 
jnmeade said:
Why did I only buy a 3 month subscription for Foreflight to run on my iPad1 a couple of months ago?

It's off to android if I can't find anything to run in Windows.

Each of us has different needs. About all I use Foreflight for is as a moving map. The rest of the info in on my panel mounted gear.
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If that is all you use simply use one of the free apps that has this and more functionality such as the app from fltplan.com (its available on both android and iOS, there are others as well)

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fltplan.com-mobile-app/id442736594?mt=8
 
masloki said:
For the Apple app store, you can set minimum hardware and software requirements, but not a maximum. So yes, they would have to deal with users downloading the wrong version to their iPad 2000. Thus they would need code would check the device, point at the new app, and manage the subscription over to the new version of the app and some other crap that just takes time to code around.

Without reading the blog post (I learned that trick in the slashdot days), they probably see X% of users on iPad 1 are worth $Y per year vs maintaining 2 versions (QA, support, etc) that will cost some value much greater than Y, and decided to fire them.
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Not completely true. I'm not going into details on this one but here is a link if you really feel like learning about the deployment process for apps(hint look at UIRequiredDeviceCapabilities). It can be very fine grained if desired This is also true for google to the specific device level if desired.

http://blog.manbolo.com/2012/05/02/how-to-indicate-what-devices-are-supported-by-your-ios-app
 
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I'm running iPad Gen 1 and my FF subscription runs out Jan 19 2014.

I got my Gen 1 for Christmas 2010 and started FF Jan 2011. It's taken me to Alaska and back, plus a lot of local flying except for the small area in Canada where I did not purchase a years Canada chart subscription for one month of need.

I've never had to reset to factory and reinstall the software. Yes I have iTunes back up at home, would not have been much help in the Yukon Territories.

I guess now its time to decide on the next device. I hate to give up on a perfectly good piece of hardware. Any other flying apps that still run on the old iOS?

Do I go to the latest mini? Apple iOS has been very stable for me, although in the last couple of months Safari would arbitrarily close (crash) but I could reopen to the same web page. Never had FF crash (close) or lock up.

So, the latest iPad? Mini? Or android tablet? Not too thrilled about google tablets or Win8 tablets.

What are good android flight programs?

I have a soaring program running on PDA. (XCSoar) but the old iPaq PDAs are getting unstable. I'm considering an android 5" or 7" tablet for next season. XCSoar runs great in android.

A lot of decisions to make before Christmas.
 
This discussion cracks me up. We spend a lot of money on flying but yet when it comes to a revolutionary device and app, we can't fork out ~0.5 AMU every 3-4 years for a device that gives you access to a bunch of new features. That's a ~$125 per year, assuming the old device is worthless at the end of the period (which it isn't).
 
FYI, the Google play store handles this exact situation without having to fork.

Just saying...
 
timfountain said:
This discussion cracks me up. We spend a lot of money on flying but yet when it comes to a revolutionary device and app, we can't fork out ~0.5 AMU every 3-4 years for a device that gives you access to a bunch of new features. That's a ~$125 per year, assuming the old device is worthless at the end of the period (which it isn't).
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I already spent the money on the revoluntary device. The hardware/app improvements, which are very minimal, do not justify the additional expense.
 
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Jesse. As a developer/coder you could write an app that will reload legacy Foreflight onto legacy ipads.
Then after a year of key pounding you can sell that app to the 27 guys left out there with a legacy ipad that need an upload.
Sounds like a killer business plan to me.
 
I'll just run my FF IPAD1 until it doesn't work anymore and then I'll worry about replacing the iPad. Yes I know I'm missing the terrain and other new features. There's no point in buying computer technology is ADVANCE of needing it.
 
timfountain said:
This discussion cracks me up. We spend a lot of money on flying but yet when it comes to a revolutionary device and app, we can't fork out ~0.5 AMU every 3-4 years for a device that gives you access to a bunch of new features. That's a ~$125 per year, assuming the old device is worthless at the end of the period (which it isn't).
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My wife and I got new iPads earlier this year from Sprint. I sent them my old iPad 1's and an old iPhone and they credited my account for $636. A good deal in my books!
 
jnmeade said:
The phrase "I could care less" is widely used and known to be essentially the equivalent of "I could not care less". Whether grammarians are happy or not is moot. The phrase is ubiquitous and widely and accurately understood.
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Well, other than the fact it doesn't make sense! If you could "care less" then you DO care some about it. If you "couldn't care less" you do not care at all since it would be impossible to care "less" than you do. Regardless of wide spread acceptance of illogical uses, it won't stop people noting it.

Had a friend that used "pitch red" to mean REALLY red until I explained "pitch" in the context of color ("pitch black") referred to a black tar called pitch.

Sometimes just educating people is all it takes.
 
BillTIZ said:
I have a soaring program running on PDA. (XCSoar) but the old iPaq PDAs are getting unstable. I'm considering an android 5" or 7" tablet for next season. XCSoar runs great in android.

A lot of decisions to make before Christmas.
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XCSoar seems to run fine on Nexus, although I've only peeked at it briefly.
 
I would hold off on any iDevice purchases until after the announcement Sept. 10. At the minimum, the existing generation ends up in the deals section with 10-20% knocked off.
 
Has anyone that has an IPAD1 and doesn't want to upgade actually contacted FF and asked/suggested that they make V5.3.3 available for (re)download? How would that be different than all the companies that offer a "lite" version for free and a "pro" version for a fee?
 
You didn't answer sdpilot's question. You were "careless" in describing that you could care less re the matter in discussion. The careless factor seems to be very common within many threads. Bad spelling, lack of proper punctuation, poor structure, and wrong words that are pronounced the same demean the comprehension of a good premise. It's careless to pontificate before having checked accuracy of one's statement. Many are they who would care less about those who are careless in professing opinions.
 
flyingron said:
I'll just run my FF IPAD1 until it doesn't work anymore and then I'll worry about replacing the iPad. Yes I know I'm missing the terrain and other new features. There's no point in buying computer technology is ADVANCE of needing it.
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Maybe I am wrong. But I feel like the majority of those who still have a first gen iPad, probably won't buy the newest release this Sept. Therefore are constantly faced with having a shorter window of compatibility with regard to software and programs... This of course isn't across the board, but I have a friend who ditched his first gen iPad, then bought a 3rd gen. He will be faced with the same problem in a year or two, as opposed to buying the latest to ensure longevity. I feel like by now, people know the score with regard to computer technology.
 
There is no longevity in computer technology. You have to factor in replacement cost every couple of years if you are into flying with a tablet or IPad .just another expense of flying love the tech stuff for long cross country's myself.
 
If you guys are freaking about consumer electronics short life spans, just wait until y'all realize that those fancy avionics are going to be having shorter spans than, say, King Silver Line of years past.
 
LOL, yep it is Apples fault.

kujo806 said:
This reinforces my hatred for Apple products. I got the iPAD because ForeFlight only runs on iOS. Now I may get screwed and not even be able to use it (if something happens to my current install). What is the best Android flight app out there these days? I already relegated the iPAD to only flight use and use my Asus tab for everything else.
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ScottM said:
If you guys are freaking about consumer electronics short life spans, just wait until y'all realize that those fancy avionics are going to be having shorter spans than, say, King Silver Line of years past.
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I'd say it depends on the quality/level of the avionics you purchase. I doubt the G1000 for example will have a short lifespan as it is already 10 years old. Then again I guess it really depends on how you define short. Personally anything over 10 years to me is not short.
 
I thought the 430/530 would outlast me guess again.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
If you bought your iPad 1 "a year or so" ago, you bought it used. The iPad 1 came out in early 2010, it's 3 1/2 years old. The 2 1/2 year old iPad 2 is still good to go for a while.
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Not sure how things work at your house, but at mine when a new electronic hits the house, one of the kids gets the new fancy one and dad gets the hand-me-down. My Ipad3 turned into the Ipad1 when it was found out one has a camera and one doesn't (to date that camera on the 3 has probably never even been used):mad2:

flyingcheesehead said:
Hmm... That's not how it's supposed to work. They're also normally very good about responding, try again and if you don't receive a response let me know.
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I'm happy with FF. I originally bought them for sectionals only as I was spending way more than their fee per year for my area which requires at least two. Not sure why they didn't answer their e-mail.

Another poster was asking why guys complain so much about having to upgrade($) etc. Many have XM weather, a 530w that has annual update fees, etc. Besides the above, hangar, fuel, insurance, repairs costs etc. it should be in your interest to keep costs down.
 
I found the iPad utterly useless on its inaugural flight. I'm going back to charts. At least I can read those in direct sunlight.
 
danhagan said:
I'm happy with FF. I originally bought them for sectionals only as I was spending way more than their fee per year for my area which requires at least two. Not sure why they didn't answer their e-mail.
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Speak of the Devil or this poster is now quoting himself:lol:

I JUST received an e-mail message from Josh Berman from Foreflight after they saw my message here. He reserached and dug up my account and located my message, reviewed everything and explained the situation to me.

In short, if you renew your subscription your anniversary date changes to the renewal date ... BUT ... you are given credit for the "spread" days in a slightly reduced subsciption fee (which I guess I did not notice on the Visa statement). Thanks again Josh for looking into this for me. Also is nice that your company monitors these forums.
 
Gotta say, this is making the upgrade of my iPad1 to a mini looming a lot sooner in my future than it was. But my iPad1 has more than paid for itself as it has already saved me three years of paper chart subscriptions running over $500/year. C'est la avion.
 
Ron Levy said:
Gotta say, this is making the upgrade of my iPad1 to a mini looming a lot sooner in my future than it was. But my iPad1 has more than paid for itself as it has already saved me three years of paper chart subscriptions running over $500/year. C'est la avion.
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Yup. I upgraded to the Mini about 6 months ago, and my iPad 1 had long since paid for itself. Sure, it's an expensive piece of hardware, but we seem to have forgotten what a pain and expense it was to keep the paper up to date just a couple of years ago!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Yup. I upgraded to the Mini about 6 months ago, and my iPad 1 had long since paid for itself. Sure, it's an expensive piece of hardware, but we seem to have forgotten what a pain and expense it was to keep the paper up to date just a couple of years ago!
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My new headset cost more, but I do expect to get more than three years' life out of it. Nevertheless, if I get three years out of a new mini, I'll still be ahead of the paper chart game by almost $1000, not to mention the wear and tear on my arm from carrying that big heavy bag around.
 
No silver linings are possible without at least one cloud.

steingar said:
I found the iPad utterly useless on its inaugural flight. I'm going back to charts. At least I can read those in direct sunlight.
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Silver Crowns will play taps at your services.

ScottM said:
If you guys are freaking about consumer electronics short life spans, just wait until y'all realize that those fancy avionics are going to be having shorter spans than, say, King Silver Line of years past.
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Okay, I have an iPad2 and am still running iOS 5.1.1. I take it Foreflight 5.4 will not be available to me unless I upgrade to iOS 6? I've held off doing that for many moons because I didn't want to lose the traffic feature in Maps. Now that I have (and like) Inrix for traffic, I don't care about Maps, so I'm willing to consider the iOS 6 upgrade.

What gotchas do I need to worry about going to iOS 6 on an iPad2?

Is the upgrade fairly bulletproof now or do I still need to be careful (back everything up, etc.)

What about performance? Typically upgrading to a new OS always makes hardware run slower. Anyone running iOS 6 on an iPad2 care to comment? Is it noticeably slower but still tolerable? Barely noticeable? A pig?
 
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