ForeFlight to drop iPad 1, iPhone 3G, iOS 5 support

flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

Touchdown! Greaser!
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iMooniac
flyingcheesehead said:
If you have an iPad 1 or iPhone 3G, update your ForeFlight this week to version 5.3.3, as that is the last version that will run on your device. 5.4 should be out next week and when it's out, 5.3.3 will become unavailable.

If you're not yet running iOS 6 or later on a newer device, either update ForeFlight this week or update your iOS (free).

http://blog.foreflight.com/2013/09/03/foreflight-mobile-5-4-and-beyond-to-require-ios-6-or-greater/
Click to expand...

And if you need to reinstall Foreflight for some reason after this period on those devices I guess you're just totally hosed unless you have an iTunes backup?
 
This reinforces my hatred for Apple products. I got the iPAD because ForeFlight only runs on iOS. Now I may get screwed and not even be able to use it (if something happens to my current install). What is the best Android flight app out there these days? I already relegated the iPAD to only flight use and use my Asus tab for everything else.
 
Thanks for the info,updated to IPad 3 when they introduced stratus,they where saying the1 would not be effective with stratus.tough trying to keep up with all the different devices and changes.
 
kujo806 said:
This reinforces my hatred for Apple products. I got the iPAD because ForeFlight only runs on iOS. Now I may get screwed and not even be able to use it (if something happens to my current install). What is the best Android flight app out there these days? I already relegated the iPAD to only flight use and use my Asus tab for everything else.
Click to expand...

Garmin Pilot is the most capable alternative on the Android platform. While I love ForeFlight, I could survive without it by using GP...if I had to. For now I run both.
 
kujo806 said:
This reinforces my hatred for Apple products. I got the iPAD because ForeFlight only runs on iOS. Now I may get screwed and not even be able to use it (if something happens to my current install). What is the best Android flight app out there these days? I already relegated the iPAD to only flight use and use my Asus tab for everything else.
Click to expand...

This is Foreflight's doing, not Apple. They should take their iPad-1-generation of Foreflight and upload it as a new app to the app store. From there they should continue to release bug fixes for critical safety items for at least another year or so.

If Foreflight does not do the above I will be highly disappointed in them.
 
kujo806 said:
This reinforces my hatred for Apple products. I got the iPAD because ForeFlight only runs on iOS. Now I may get screwed and not even be able to use it (if something happens to my current install). What is the best Android flight app out there these days? I already relegated the iPAD to only flight use and use my Asus tab for everything else.
Click to expand...

I dont get your hatred here. You bought an electronic device years ago that worked fine for the versions of software they produced. Now, they've added features that will overload the legacy, out of date (by any teenager standards even) device and you're mad?

I have an ipad 1. It worked great. Will it scroll charts with a ton of overlays? Not the best. Will it work to replace charts for years to come? Probably.

I didn't see that FF will drop updating the charts and all. They just won't support it and make new features available to the ipad 1.
 
mikegreen said:
I dont get your hatred here. You bought an electronic device years ago that worked fine for the versions of software they produced. Now, they've added features that will overload the legacy, out of date (by any teenager standards even) device and you're mad?

I have an ipad 1. It worked great. Will it scroll charts with a ton of overlays? Not the best. Will it work to replace charts for years to come? Probably.

I didn't see that FF will drop updating the charts and all. They just won't support it and make new features available to the ipad 1.
Click to expand...

No the annoying part is when you pay for something and then it suddenly becomes unavailable. I could careless if they fork and add new features to a newer version but to make the current version unobtainium for their legacy users is ridiculous.
 
jesse said:
No the annoying part is when you pay for something and then it suddenly becomes unavailable. I could careless if they fork and add new features to a newer version but to make the current version unobtainium for their legacy users is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Nowhere does Foreflight say that the ipad 1 release will stop working. It continues to get database updates and function as 5.3.3.

Also, you didn't pay for it - you licensed it for a predetermined period of time (1,3,12 months).
 
mikegreen said:
Nowhere does Foreflight say that the ipad 1 release will stop working. It continues to get database updates and function as 5.3.3.

Also, you didn't pay for it - you licensed it for a predetermined period of time (1,3,12 months).
Click to expand...

They're pushing a newer version overtop of the current App that won't run on the older device. This means they're going to:

1) have no way to push updates to iPad 1 users if they encounter a bug

2) ipad 1 users will have no real way to reinstall Foreflight if something happens to their install

The proper thing would be to fork the App.

Imagine if you just paid for a 12 month subscription and you read this. I'd be ****ed. They're completely abandoning such users cutting off any real way to continue to support them. Like I said, the proper thing, would be for them to fork and not allow new subscriptions on the older hardware then continue to support the iPad 1 users until their subscriptions run out.
 
jesse said:
No the annoying part is when you pay for something and then it suddenly becomes unavailable. I could careless if they fork and add new features to a newer version but to make the current version unobtainium for their legacy users is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Please describe how you could careless?
 
jesse said:
No the annoying part is when you pay for something and then it suddenly becomes unavailable. I could careless if they fork and add new features to a newer version but to make the current version unobtainium for their legacy users is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I agree... a ForeFlight HD or ForeFlight II would allow them to keep everyone happy for awhile longer.
 
Jesse hit it on the head. I could care less if they did not support new upcoming features on the older hardware, but I would greatly appreciate it if they continued to update the charts and allow me to use the program I originally bought. Back when I decided to buy a tablet, I would have rather bought an Android tablet, but made the decision to get the iPad based on Foreflight being the only real flight app available. I had a lot of issues with the iPad over the years, but luckily it seems to run Foreflight well enough for what I needed. I ended up buying the Asus for half the price to run everything else. The Android platform has been much more reliable for me and runs Flash for less money. I don't mean to upset the fan boys, but that has been my experience. I would not buy a newer Apple product unless there simply is no option.
 
sdpilot said:
Please describe how you could careless?
Click to expand...

I would not be upset with them if they chose to fork and add new features for newer hardware only. That is how you properly do software. It would still mean older hardware users wouldn't get the new stuff but to abandon their users mid subscription is rather irresponsible.

Very real scenario:

You're an iPad 1 user out on a cross country staying in a hotel and your iOS install gets messed up. You are forced to reset your device. Now you need to reinstall Foreflight and it's no longer available for you on the App Store. You're hosed. You are 3 months into a 12 month subscription you paid for. Your only option is to buy a new device? That's ridiculous.
 
Last edited:
Jesse - are you a user of FF on an ipad 1?
As mentioned, I have an ipad1 and FF. I use it for chart browsing and home, filing flight plans, etc. I have an ipad mini I fly with.

I'm not upset. Even if I didn't have the mini already, I wouldn't be upset. I bought the ipad years ago. 2010 maybe?
If one of the things happened as you describe below - I'd call up foreflight, explain my situation, and I'm sure they'd either refund the remainder of my subscription, or remedy the problem.

So, I guess I'll circle around... are you an upset ipad1 owner? I just don't get all the hostility here compared to a productive conversation if you actually had some skin in the game.
:confused:

jesse said:
They're pushing a newer version overtop of the current App that won't run on the older device. This means they're going to:

1) have no way to push updates to iPad 1 users if they encounter a bug

2) ipad 1 users will have no real way to reinstall Foreflight if something happens to their install

The proper thing would be to fork the App.

Imagine if you just paid for a 12 month subscription and you read this. I'd be ****ed. They're completely abandoning such users cutting off any real way to continue to support them. Like I said, the proper thing, would be for them to fork and not allow new subscriptions on the older hardware then continue to support the iPad 1 users until their subscriptions run out.
Click to expand...
 
NOW it's time to finally ditch my iPad 1, and many apps no longer work on iPad 1, in electronic years it's a dinosaur now.
 
sdpilot said:
I think you both mean you could not care less
Click to expand...
Point taken, grammar nazi if you so choose, either way my point remains and you understood that point.
 
mikegreen said:
Jesse - are you a user of FF on an ipad 1?
As mentioned, I have an ipad1 and FF. I use it for chart browsing and home, filing flight plans, etc. I have an ipad mini I fly with.

I'm not upset. Even if I didn't have the mini already, I wouldn't be upset. I bought the ipad years ago. 2010 maybe?
If one of the things happened as you describe below - I'd call up foreflight, explain my situation, and I'm sure they'd either refund the remainder of my subscription, or remedy the problem.

So, I guess I'll circle around... are you an upset ipad1 owner? I just don't get all the hostility here compared to a productive conversation if you actually had some skin in the game.
:confused:
Click to expand...
No I am not an iPad 1 user but I am a software developer, iOS developer, and Foreflight customer and have been for a long time and expect them to operate with a certain degree of responsibility and respect for their customers.

If this is how they choose to treat many of their customers I will be thinking twice before I renew with them. How do I know they won't screw me over on my iPad mini mid next subscription?
 
mikegreen said:
Did you read the blog post?
Click to expand...
Do you understand how iOS and the App store works? If this is what they do they have effectively cut off:

1.) any channel to easily release updates for the legacy customer if some critical bug were to come out that were to render the app useless.

2.) the ability for a iPad 1 user to reinstall Foreflight
 
kujo806 said:
This reinforces my hatred for Apple products.
Click to expand...

So, Apple should just stop developing new features so that you can run old software on old hardware? :dunno: Welcome to the tech biz. Progress is the name of the game.

Frankly, I bought a newer iPad months ago because I wasn't happy with the performance of ForeFlight on the old hardware at that point. It's been a LONG time since the performance became unacceptably slow on the iPhone 3GS.
 
kujo806 said:
Jesse hit it on the head. I could care less if they did not support new upcoming features on the older hardware, but I would greatly appreciate it if they continued to update the charts and allow me to use the program I originally bought.
Click to expand...

Let me make this really clear, since I didn't say it in the OP (though it is in the linked blog article):

Charts will continue to be updated on all devices and OS versions.

This has nothing to do with chart updates, only with the software itself.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
So, Apple should just stop developing new features so that you can run old software on old hardware? :dunno: Welcome to the tech biz. Progress is the name of the game.
Click to expand...
This isn't Apple's doing. Apple at least continues to provide the legacy versions of iOS. Foreflight does not, even when, they have paying customers that are mid-subscription on those legacy versions and have no ability to upgrade.
 
Have been a fore flight user for years,updated the I pad you have to expect to either update or replace your equipment as technology changes.which is very often.i finally stopped purchasing a new garmin portable every time they came out with a new one.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Let me make this really clear, since I didn't say it in the OP (though it is in the linked blog article):

Charts will continue to be updated on all devices and OS versions.

This has nothing to do with chart updates, only with the software itself.
Click to expand...

Unless of course they need to change something in the chart formatting to fix a bug and they no longer can update the user's Foreflight to handle that.
 
jesse said:
Do you understand how iOS and the App store works? If this is what they do they have effectively cut off:

1.) any channel to easily release updates for the legacy customer if some critical bug were to come out that were to render the app useless.

2.) the ability for a iPad 1 user to reinstall Foreflight
Click to expand...

I was replying to the question of charts - that they will continue to provide downloads.

Have you called FF or are you merely stirring it up? If you need to reinstall, do it from itunes. If you dont have itunes, call FF and ask them to send you the actual install file. I feel this is a VERY small chance anyone needs this - I haven't reinstalled any app on either of my ipads in well over a year..
Critical bug. Well, let's see - its been working fine for months.. Find a Y2k bug or something?

Dude, let it go. If we were launching missiles into orbit I could see your red flag.. but, alas, I can't. Have a good day.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
So, Apple should just stop developing new features so that you can run old software on old hardware? :dunno: Welcome to the tech biz. Progress is the name of the game.

Frankly, I bought a newer iPad months ago because I wasn't happy with the performance of ForeFlight on the old hardware at that point. It's been a LONG time since the performance became unacceptably slow on the iPhone 3GS.
Click to expand...

One could argue that the software is becoming bloated. The feature-chase going on between the players is good but building in a way to shut off CPU sucking features on older hardware might have been in order instead of obsolescence.

It's not like showing a moving map was ever beyond the iPad 1's physical capabilities, but doing all the overlays and stuff... Understand that taxes its little brain.

I had thoughts to keep the iPad 1 around as a chart-only backup to the iPad 2, but the iPhone 5 is the only backup device that can keep up with the bloat.
 
mikegreen said:
I was replying to the question of charts - that they will continue to provide downloads.

Have you called FF or are you merely stirring it up? If you need to reinstall, do it from itunes. If you dont have itunes, call FF and ask them to send you the actual install file. I feel this is a VERY small chance anyone needs this - I haven't reinstalled any app on either of my ipads in well over a year..
Critical bug. Well, let's see - its been working fine for months.. Find a Y2k bug or something?

Dude, let it go. If we were launching missiles into orbit I could see your red flag.. but, alas, I can't. Have a good day.
Click to expand...

You're entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine. Their decision to abandon customers, abandon common software developing methods for handling this sort of situation, and not fully explain all the potential problems one could have because of the path they've chosen is enough to make me hesitate recommending them. This is coming from someone that has always been one of the biggest Foreflight supporters and just purchased a Stratus 2 a few weeks ago.

They just haven't given the lead time they should for the path they've taken.
 
It is pretty funny to expect a 5 year old device to run current programs when the hardware its self is not upgradable. Good luck getting a 5 year old Windows machine to properly run Windows 8 without any hardware upgrades. It also amazes me how it shocks the general public.
 
jesse said:
You're entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine. Their decision to abandon customers, abandon common software developing methods for handling this sort of situation, and not fully explain all the potential problems one could have because of the path they've chosen is enough to make me hesitate recommending them. This is coming from someone that has always been one of the biggest Foreflight supporters and just purchased a Stratus 2 a few weeks ago.

They just haven't given the lead time they should for the path they've taken.
Click to expand...

This is expected and largely implied as this has occurred with Apple products, it's iOS software, as well as third party programs.
 
mikegreen said:
Have you called FF or are you merely stirring it up? If you need to reinstall, do it from itunes. If you dont have itunes, call FF and ask them to send you the actual install file..
Click to expand...

You don't have any clue how iOS works eh? You can not just "get a file" and install it on a non-hacked iOS device. It has to come (for most of us) from the iTunes app store. As pointed out, due to the way app updates work, you have to make it a "different" app if you want to maintain distinct updated versions for different environments.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Let me make this really clear, since I didn't say it in the OP (though it is in the linked blog article):

Charts will continue to be updated on all devices and OS versions.

This has nothing to do with chart updates, only with the software itself.
Click to expand...

could you write it a little bigger? People across the room from me can't quite read it. :rofl:
 
Inverted said:
It is pretty funny to expect a 5 year old device to run current programs when the hardware its self is not upgradable. Good luck getting a 5 year old Windows machine to properly run Windows 8 without any hardware upgrades. It also amazes me how it shocks the general public.
Click to expand...

If you subscribe to such behavior by software companies, fine. I've got 15 year old machines still in Production making real cash money running Linux.

But ask a CIO to actually buy something or use something that'll last we'll beyond his amortization schedule and he will look at you with a blank stare because he didn't read about it in CIO Magazine. LOL!
 
jesse said:
No I am not an iPad 1 user but I am a software developer, iOS developer, and Foreflight customer and have been for a long time and expect them to operate with a certain degree of responsibility and respect for their customers.

If this is how they choose to treat many of their customers I will be thinking twice before I renew with them. How do I know they won't screw me over on my iPad mini mid next subscription?
Click to expand...

Jesse,

I understand what you're saying - However, they don't do these things without good reason, and the iPad Mini is way too new to be dropped. I'm sure they pay attention to how many of their users are running on each kind of device, as well as how those devices perform with their software.

I like your idea of forking the app, and I'll ask them about it, but I think they may avoid doing that because it also introduces the potential for new users to download the wrong one and never get any updates or new features. As you're a developer - Is there any way to restrict an app to only *older* devices or iOS versions in the store?
 
flyingron said:
You don't have any clue how iOS works eh? You can not just "get a file" and install it on a non-hacked iOS device. It has to come (for most of us) from the iTunes app store.
Click to expand...

Yes you can, and I have at least two apps that are not available on the app store on my non-hacked devices. It's not as straightforward for the developers, but it's quite easy to install for the users and can be done through a web browser on the device.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Jesse,
Is there any way to restrict an app to only *older* devices or iOS versions in the store?
Click to expand...

Yes you can restrict an app to the iOS versions. I personally agree with Jesse that if you are in the middle of a subscription and they make your device obsolete to the point you can't use the subscription then they should refund your money that remains on the subscription which I'm sure they would.
 
denverpilot said:
One could argue that the software is becoming bloated. The feature-chase going on between the players is good but building in a way to shut off CPU sucking features on older hardware might have been in order instead of obsolescence.
Click to expand...

Nate,

It's not about bloat, it's about the ability to take advantage of API features available in newer versions of iOS. The iPad 1 cannot run iOS 6, so if ForeFlight wants to take advantage of the newer features of newer iOS versions, it has to cut off support for the old devices.

Now, there is definitely some bloat in iOS itself - That's why the iPad went from running ForeFlight screaming fast in iOS 3.2 to being pretty doggy in iOS 5.
 
sdpilot said:
I personally agree with Jesse that if you are in the middle of a subscription and they make your device obsolete to the point you can't use the subscription then they should refund your money that remains on the subscription which I'm sure they would.
Click to expand...

But you CAN use the subscription on the old devices still.

And I'm sure they would give refunds if you couldn't. Their customer support is excellent.
 
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