Foreflight renewal approaching, iPad out of support - Is it time to go Android?

MarkH

MarkH

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MarkH
I have an iPad mini 4 that I use exclusively to run Foreflight, its on it's 3rd battery and still cannot last for a 3 hour flight. My Foreflight subscription is renewing soon so if I am going to cancel for the next year I need to decide now.

What are the best Android EFBs and Tablets to run them on right now?
 
The answer for you depends on two related things. (1) are you a light or "power" user and (2) how easily do you handle app changes? For example, I am instrument rated and fly under IFR regularly. I have been using Foreflight for almost 14 years, have their most expensive Performance Plus package. There are features I don't use very much, but I think I get fairly deep into it's flight planning and inflight capabilities. I have an iPad and an Android phone and have used most of not every EFB app in the US market.

Given all that, if I decided to toss the iPad, there would be only one choice for me. iFlyEFB. VFR only, you'll see a lot of votes for Avare, although I'd probably still do iFly.
 
I started out using an Android tablet and tried many of the free apps. Most of them worked most of the time. The things I found was the interfaces weren't quite as refined, and more than once I had failures where maps that were supposedly downloaded disappeared. Once I started doing some professional flying, Foreflight was required, and I really liked the interface and dependability.
 
Well the iPad Mini 4 is 9 years old, so I'd say you definitely got good use out of it. I'm impressed.

What's your goal here? Because the obvious answer is just "buy a new iPad and keep using Foreflight", unless you WANT to change for some reason. Do you not like FF? Do you feel it's too expensive? Do you not like the iPad, or feel they're too expensive, etc.?
 
midlifeflyer said:
The answer for you depends on two related things. (1) are you a light or "power" user and (2) how easily do you handle app changes? For example, I am instrument rated and fly under IFR regularly. I have been using Foreflight for almost 14 years, have their most expensive Performance Plus package. There are features I don't use very much, but I think I get fairly deep into it's flight planning and inflight capabilities. I have an iPad and an Android phone and have used most of not every EFB app in the US market.

Given all that, if I decided to toss the iPad, there would be only one choice for me. iFlyEFB. VFR only, you'll see a lot of votes for Avare, although I'd probably still do iFly.
Click to expand...

Yep, Avare. It doesn't cost anything, although I voluntarily contribute $100 per year. Never had any issues with using it in hard IMC/IFR.
 
Stewartb said:
I replaced my older Minis with new ones. Cell versions with the lowest storage option. The price was easy enough to swallow for the benefit of a fast, reliable, and familiar platform.

The only thing cheap in aviation is the pilot.
Click to expand...

Ain’t that the truth!

I think it’s funny that that seems to be such a common trait of pilots, and I’m certainly not the exception! We have a far from cheap passion in life but we will drive/fly miles out of our way to save 10 cents on a cup of coffee! :)

I cried uncle last week, furnace went out, I troubleshot it and my wife was losing her patience as I did, “we can afford to call a repair man now, why don’t we?” Well “can” and “want to” is two different things! Lol. I determined it to be the gas valve, looked difficult to get out so I called…

My Son asked me if I was feeling okay later, I said “yea why?” He said “because there’s a repair person here!” He isn’t accustomed to that! :)
 
sarangan said:
Yep, Avare. It doesn't cost anything, although I voluntarily contribute $100 per year. Never had any issues with using it in hard IMC/IFR.
Click to expand...
I want more features and a better planning interface. But that’s me. I tried using it as a backup but didn’t like it.
 
Long time Android user. The two EFBs I would recommend are iFlyEFB and DroidEFB. I've used both over time for IFR flying. Not as feature-laden as Foreflight, but more than good enough for IFR. Both integrate with your avionics via WiFi. (I get ADS-B weather on my Android tablet from my NGT-9000 transponder.)

As far as Android tablets go, just ensure you get one with GPS capability. Most will have it, but there are notable exceptions, like the Google Pixel tablet. You will also want to decide on a form factor/size and screen resolution. I've owned a series of different Samsung tablets, and they seem to work well, although I don't like the Samsung bloatware which I have to disable or in some cases delete. Low-end Android tablets all have low resolution screens, which may or may not be ideal for and EFB usage. Get a tablet with 300+ ppi screen resolution.

FYI, I always run my EFB tablet from a panel-installed USB charger. Your EFB is too critical to risk battery depletion during IFR flight. If you don't have an on-board charger, connect it to a large power bank in flight.
 
If you're considering switching, Garmin Pilot is a solid Android EFB alternative. For tablets, the Samsung Galaxy Tab S6 Lite or Tab S8 are highly recommended due to their performance, display quality, and battery life. Another option to explore is Avare, a free EFB app that works well on most Android devices. Just make sure the tablet you choose has good sunlight readability and enough storage for charts and updates.
 
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pilotsofamerica.com

ForeFlight - Minimum IOS required

It looks like my perfectly fine I Pad Pro is on the list of models that can’t be updated. Getting old isn’t easy at times.
pilotsofamerica.com pilotsofamerica.com

Maybe combine threads? My solution was that given I buy an I-Pad every decade or so, I bit the bullet and got a direct ship from Apple the new I Pad mini with cellular/GPS.

I also have an Android tablet (Triplex) running I Fly which I use in the cockpit because it’s screen is sunlight readable.
 
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A few things to consider:

1. If you’re connecting to Garmin panel avionics for ADSB or flight plan changes. with your current EFB, moving to Android limits you to Garmin Pilot for the EFB. Pilot on Android is not nearly feature rich as Pilot iOS.

2. Changing EFBs comes with a learning curve.

3. I use iFlyEFB on my android tablet and iOS because it’s OS agnostic. I’m testing GP on android and iOS because someone here told me I was missing out on all sorts of manna from heaven not being connected to my panel avionics. Color me unimpressed for my use case so far.

4. Most EFBs will give you a 14 to 30 day trial. Try ‘em out, it’s free.
 
darthanubis said:
Fun fact, since 2013 ALL iPads have GPS. I keep seeing the outdated information about having to spring for the cellular model to have GPS. I upgraded from the mini 6 WiFi to mini 7 cellular for the free storage upgrade and processor specs. I opted for the cell version this time just as a treat to myself and runup downloads, but not GPS.

ETA: My Foreflight Pro and Jepp plates expires tonight and I’ve been here a year now! I’ll be renewing, obviously.
Click to expand...

Can you validate this, because I can't easily find anything to back that up?

On the iPad Air 2024 is GPS included in t… - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com discussions.apple.com
 
darthanubis said:
Fun fact, since 2013 ALL iPads have GPS. I keep seeing the outdated information about having to spring for the cellular model to have GPS. I upgraded from the mini 6 WiFi to mini 7 cellular for the free storage upgrade and processor specs. I opted for the cell version this time just as a treat to myself and runup downloads, but not GPS.

ETA: My Foreflight Pro and Jepp plates expires tonight and I’ve been here a year now! I’ll be renewing, obviously.
Click to expand...

Looking on Apple's web site and the tech specs of different iPads, this does not appear to be correct. Wifi only have the ability to infer location from the wifi networks they are on, but do not have GPS. I can only find GPS on cellular models.
 
darthanubis said:
Fun fact, since 2013 ALL iPads have GPS. I keep seeing the outdated information about having to spring for the cellular model to have GPS.
Click to expand...
I can find no sources corroborating this information. As far as I know and can find, GPS is still only included on those iPads with cell capability. Wifi-only models can often infer their location by detecting known wifi hotspots, but that's not the same thing as having a dedicated GPS on board.

What is your source for this statement?
 
RussR said:
I can find no sources corroborating this information. As far as I know and can find, GPS is still only included on those iPads with cell capability. Wifi-only models can often infer their location by detecting known wifi hotspots, but that's not the same thing as having a dedicated GPS on board.

What is your source for this statement?
Click to expand...
I know! I got excited too! I've been actively shopping for a replacement to my Mini 4 and would jump at the chance to save a couple hundred bucks!

I am torn between a Mini 7 or Air M2. My research says they are equally powerful and equipped, just have to decide if the Mini size continues to suffice or if I want something bigger. As usually it always comes down to the inches.
 
darthanubis said:
Fun fact, since 2013 ALL iPads have GPS. I keep seeing the outdated information about having to spring for the cellular model to have GPS. I upgraded from the mini 6 WiFi to mini 7 cellular for the free storage upgrade and processor specs. I opted for the cell version this time just as a treat to myself and runup downloads, but not GPS.

ETA: My Foreflight Pro and Jepp plates expires tonight and I’ve been here a year now! I’ll be renewing, obviously.
Click to expand...
I have been using noncellular iPads for almost 14 years and as far as know, none have had internal GPS capability, so I’d be very interested in a reference to your fun fact, preferably something from Apple rather than an AI collection of things “people say.” I’ve been in a number of flights where I haven’t connected to an external GPS or ADS-B punch or panel. No location service.

Foreflight with WiFi off:

1734560059277.png
 
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darthanubis said:
On the spec sheet of any iPad from 2013. I also asked an Apple rep. They’re only a phone call or text away. The language of the WiFi geolocation and WiFi referencing was for the older models. Looking for an official source.
Click to expand...

Pretty certain your information is incorrect. Here are screenshots of the Tech Specs from the latest Ipad Pro and Mini. Only on the Wi-Fi+Cellular Models, not all models. Nothing changed.

Screenshot (Dec 18, 2024 4_17_17 PM).pngScreenshot (Dec 18, 2024 4_16_46 PM).png
 
midlifeflyer said:
I have been using noncellular iPads for almost 14 years and as far as know, none have had internal GPS capability, so I’d be very interested in a reference to your fun fact, preferably something from Apple rather than an AI collection of things “people say.”
Click to expand...
I was wrong. Editing posts to reflect that. The GPS is baked into the cellular chipset.
 
darthanubis said:
Fun fact, since 2013 ALL iPads have GPS. I keep seeing the outdated information about having to spring for the cellular model to have GPS. I upgraded from the mini 6 WiFi to mini 7 cellular for the free storage upgrade and processor specs. I opted for the cell version this time just as a treat to myself and runup downloads, but not GPS.

ETA: My Foreflight Pro and Jepp plates expires tonight and I’ve been here a year now! I’ll be renewing, obviously.
Click to expand...

Apple's own iPad Mini specs at https://www.apple.com/ipad-mini/specs/ clearly contradict this. Scroll down to the bottom of the page, where it clearly states that "GPS/GNSS" features are available only with the Wi-Fi + Cellular models; all models get Digital compass, Wi-Fi, and iBeacon microlocation… but not the added GPS/GNSS.
 
It is correct that wifi ipads don't have GPS.

I still think buying the mobile ipad is the wrong path though. It's 2024. I want to use a GPS source with ads-b info. So get the ipad wifi version and hook to either stratus or your panel's ads-b stream.
 
To the OP, do you already have any Android devices? If so, install Avare or one of the other Android EFBs and play with it to see if you like it. If you don't currently have an Android, borrow somebody's old phone and try it on that. That would help you decide if it's an acceptable FF alternative for you.

Personally, I like Avare, but I can see how it might not be adequate for others. I only do basic VFR flying, cross countries are short legs through uncomplicated airspace, and in an old biplane flight planning is usually pretty simple. The new AvareX is a step up in sophistication, though, and it now runs on iOS as well as Windows.
 
172andyou said:
It is correct that wifi ipads don't have GPS.

I still think buying the mobile ipad is the wrong path though. It's 2024. I want to use a GPS source with ads-b info. So get the ipad wifi version and hook to either stratus or your panel's ads-b stream.
Click to expand...
That’s what I was doing and the gps readings were coming from the connected sentry. I agree, more money but this is the way.
 
Think about all the features, and how many do you actually use. I find a large majority of foreflight, I don’t use those features.
 
If ev
MarkH said:
I have an iPad mini 4 that I use exclusively to run Foreflight, its on it's 3rd battery and still cannot last for a 3 hour flight. My Foreflight subscription is renewing soon so if I am going to cancel for the next year I need to decide now.

What are the best Android EFBs and Tablets to run them on right now?
Click to expand...
Buy new iPad; renew FF. Especially if ever used IFR. Some things are just the standard to which all others are compared, so why not just get the standard?
 
Half Fast said:
IFly will do all you need, and for me the in-flight UI is better than ForeFlight. Adventure Pilot (iFly) is selling an Android tablet made for cockpit use with a very bright screen.

Click to expand...
They call this “sunlight readable” - but it would be marginally at best. At 800 nits it’s lower than the new iPad pros @ 1000 nits and the area 760 which is even brighter than this.
 
MarkH said:
I have an iPad mini 4 that I use exclusively to run Foreflight, its on it's 3rd battery and still cannot last for a 3 hour flight.
Click to expand...
Install AvareX on your iPad mini 4 and see if it performs any better than Foreflight.
 
chemgeek said:
Long time Android user. The two EFBs I would recommend are iFlyEFB and DroidEFB. I've used both over time for IFR flying. Not as feature-laden as Foreflight, but more than good enough for IFR. Both integrate with your avionics via WiFi. (I get ADS-B weather on my Android tablet from my NGT-9000 transponder.)

As far as Android tablets go, just ensure you get one with GPS capability. Most will have it, but there are notable exceptions, like the Google Pixel tablet. You will also want to decide on a form factor/size and screen resolution. I've owned a series of different Samsung tablets, and they seem to work well, although I don't like the Samsung bloatware which I have to disable or in some cases delete. Low-end Android tablets all have low resolution screens, which may or may not be ideal for and EFB usage. Get a tablet with 300+ ppi screen resolution.

FYI, I always run my EFB tablet from a panel-installed USB charger. Your EFB is too critical to risk battery depletion during IFR flight. If you don't have an on-board charger, connect it to a large power bank in flight.
Click to expand...

I would never go on a lengthy X-country without a USB charger or way to charge the tablet battery, and I’m not IFR rated.
 
Avare is decent, and AvareX seems to be adding more features. They also support a Stratux, which comes with a GPS receiver, thus covering you if the tablet doesn't have a built-in receiver.
 
chemgeek said:
FYI, I always run my EFB tablet from a panel-installed USB charger. Your EFB is too critical to risk battery depletion during IFR flight. If you don't have an on-board charger, connect it to a large power bank in flight.
Click to expand...
I don’t know this myself, but I have heard that charging is yet another controllable source of heat, so I don’t keep my iPad connected in flight. My SOP is to be fully charged before a flight day. I do have a charging block in my flight bag as backup.
 
eman1200 said:
Can u plug your iPad in during flight so you don’t have to worry about the battery dying?
Click to expand...
An iPad Mini 4 is already ancient technology, unsupported by the latest security updates and iOS, and unable to run the latest version of ForeFlight.

While plugging it in in flight is a good idea, it still needs to be replaced at this point.
TCABM said:
A few things to consider:

4. Most EFBs will give you a 14 to 30 day trial. Try ‘em out, it’s free.
Click to expand...
... Unless you're switching platforms and you need to buy a new tablet to try them out.

Stewartb said:
The only thing cheap in aviation is the pilot.
Click to expand...
This.

The last long trip I went on before the iPad came out, the last hurrah of paper, I bought:

16 sectional charts
5 TAC charts
Grand Canyon VFR chart
7 IFR low enroute charts
IFR area charts
9 books of approach plates
4 A/FDs ("chart supplements" now)

It cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $250, weighed several pounds, and filled up two grocery bags. FOR ONE TRIP (since most of it expired before I could use it again). Even the highest tier of ForeFlight subscription is a bargain compared to the bad old days!
 
midlifeflyer said:
I don’t know this myself, but I have heard that charging is yet another controllable source of heat, so I don’t keep my iPad connected in flight. My SOP is to be fully charged before a flight day. I do have a charging block in my flight bag as backup.
Click to expand...
That is true, but the heat depends on the charge current. If you plug it in when it's 100%, it'll only be drawing enough current to replenish whatever the iPad is actually using. If you wait until the battery gets low and then plug it in, then it's going to be running full tilt and it's going to create quite a bit of heat. So, IMO, better to just keep it plugged in if there is any doubt whatsoever about whether you'll complete the flight on the battery.
 
OTOH, almost all Android devices have built in GPS, and overheating problems are much less frequent.
 
172andyou said:
I still think buying the mobile ipad is the wrong path though. It's 2024. I want to use a GPS source with ads-b info. So get the ipad wifi version and hook to either stratus or your panel's ads-b stream.
Click to expand...
The advantage of a GPS iPad is that it will still be able to give you position data in the event your primary GPS source decides it no longer feels like working mid-flight. If your iPad's GPS source is the panel, then you're having a bad enough day already. Why create the single point of failure when the price difference between a cell vs wifi-only iPad is less than half a tank of avgas? Note that I'm not implying Foreflight should be used for primary navigation. Even so, if my GTN 750/GTX 345 combo decide to go dark when I'm in IMC, then I could certainly do worse than to use the iPad's internal GPS to feed position data into FF to help me deal with the situation.

As to the OP, another vote here to just upgrade the iPad and stick with FF. Android is my jam, but nothing in Android is on par with FF yet. If you're an airplane owner, then that expense should barely be a blip on the radar.
 
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