Flying with the door open

Nothing quite like flying in an A-36 with no baggage doors while a Pitts hunts you down like a fighter! Well, maybe hanging out of a B-25 while a real fighter, P-51 chases you down!

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Glenn D said:
In my flight training, in a 152, the instructor had me fly a complete landing pattern at Cable airport, starting out trimed up, and only using the doors, no other control surfaces... so used them to fly the pattern!.... open a door to turn, and both to descend... about 30 ft above the runway he said "ok, now fly it on in".. only had to flair for the landing... I think it was very good training!.. He was rather impressed that I was able to make it all work on the first try.
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Interesting. So no throttle to descend, just the doors. :ihih:
 
I was flying a Dr's A36 from Destin to Marathon w/ him up front and his kids in the back. Climbing out of Destin he reaches behind my seat and I ask what's going on. He says window is open. Bo windows swing open from the bottom but only open maybe 4-6" I think. Anyway I slow as he tries to close it, then he says it's gone. What's gone? The window is gone. Descended back into Destin and landed. He charters a 135 Navajo and continued on to Marathon, I take his Mercedes and drive back home to Alabama.

The whole window behind the left seat was missing in action. I always envisioned someone laying out on the beach and this thing floating down next to them. Whomp!
 
What is this door thing of which you speak?
 
I admit I failed to secure my luggage door during one flight. It took awhile to figure it out, the aircraft was 5 mph slower and I couldn't figure out why until I looked back. I was at about 7K feet, and thought about landing at my nearest, but I figured by the time I lost the altitude I'd be at my destination. I did slow down. All my pals got to see me land with my luggage door open. The only damage to the door was a bit of missing paint. My CFI told me he did the same thing, but in his case (faster Mooney) the door departed the aircraft. 5 AMUs in repairs.
 
mscard88 said:
That's insane!
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Yeah, I lived in the area when that happened.
The article doesn't do a great job describing the Capts position hanging onto the door, but I remember a rendering when it first happened.
He went headfirst with his head at the bottom of the stair door, so he was pretty much hanging upside down.
 
Kritchlow said:
Yeah, I lived in the area when that happened.
The article doesn't do a great job describing the Capts position hanging onto the door, but I remember a rendering when it first happened.
He went headfirst with his head at the bottom of the stair door, so he was pretty much hanging upside down.
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Wow. Very fortunate. Did he continue to fly?
 
I think so, but it was many years ago now so my memory may have faded a tad.
 
Velocity173 said:
Can be a problem with gullwing doors.

http://wiki.velocityoba.com/index.php?title=Open_Door
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Seems like the thing to do would be get uncoordinated and stay there. Right door goes up, then right rudder to keep the air pushing on the outside of the door so it doesn't catch the inside and pin it against the fuselage. 'Step' on the bad door so to speak. You should be able to find a combination of turns, probably a few 270's to get on final and don't 'unslip' it until just before touchdown.
 
Stewartb said:
An open door story.

I flew the Cessna into Hood on a very bumpy day. I wanted to know how my Cub would ride in the same conditions so I sent wife home alone and I went right back out in the Cub. The affect of turbulence on a 150mph airplane is different from an 85mph airplane but it was still plenty rough in the Cub. The day before I had adjusted the plex on the swing-up door and in the turbulence the door wouldn't remain latched as a result. I was fighting to keep the plane upright and in some semblance of control while fighting the dang door popping loose while bouncing at the mercy of the turbulence. The only thing I could reach to secure the door was my belt so I pulled it off and hooked it to the door latch angle and under my butt so I could sit on it and hold the door closed, all while getting tossed against my harness. I turned around and came back to land. A friend watched the approach and came over to talk as I taxied into my tie down. He looked in to see my pants down around my knees and the belt tied to the door. The look on his face was almost as funny as the WTF questions that came out of his mouth. An unsecured door in moderate turbulence was not fun. A partially secured door wasn't all that much better.
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Good thinking.
 
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Ravioli said:
It's a little noisy but not all that scary.

Most recent was the baggage door on the Cardinal during my BFR. What I learned there was slow down, and put the flaps down. The wind under the flap will blow it shut.

Anyway, if a door pops... remember Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.
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Hmm. Don't think that would have crossed my mind. Now it will. AND, new ammo for the high vs low wing debate.
 
Glenn D said:
In my flight training, in a 152, the instructor had me fly a complete landing pattern at Cable airport, starting out trimed up, and only using the doors, no other control surfaces... so used them to fly the pattern!.... open a door to turn, and both to descend... about 30 ft above the runway he said "ok, now fly it on in".. only had to flair for the landing... I think it was very good training!.. He was rather impressed that I was able to make it all work on the first try.
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I've been thinking about something to do on my next BFR. Just gotta find a CFI who says 'cool' lets go instead of Huh!
 
Sac Arrow said:
Yeah. Be the guy sitting in the right rear seat flying open door in Wildflecken, Germany in January. I thought I was going to freeze in to a solid block of ice.
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Never sit in the back row in a 60. :(
 
Kritchlow said:
What in world is going on? Is it normal for everyone to have doors popping open?
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I was beginning to feel left out, I've never had a door pop open on me.. PA28, 172, SR20, etc., none opened
 
Obviously for planes that can fly without doors this wouldn't be an issue.. but for planes that are intended to have latched doors is there any structural integrity decrease when a door "pops" open? I seem to recall reading somewhere that if the L3 and R3 doors are left open on an empty B747 and the plane is then filled with fuel the flex from the wings and fuse makes closing the doors again near (if not) impossible.. that would suggest there is some strength coming from them

Have also heard anecdotally that Metroliners, stretch DC-8s, etc. can have some issues with doors, like if they're towed with open doors there can be some twisting
 
Tantalum said:
O I seem to recall reading somewhere that if the L3 and R3 doors are left open on an empty B747 and the plane is then filled with fuel the flex from the wings and fuse makes closing the doors again near (if not) impossible.. that would suggest there is some strength coming from them
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Not necessarily. It just means you can't deform the door when trying to shut it to fit in the hole. WHen the fuselage deforms with the door closed, it deforms the door with it.
 
Tantalum said:
Have also heard anecdotally that Metroliners, stretch DC-8s, etc. can have some issues with doors, like if they're towed with open doors there can be some twisting
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Learjets and some other business jets have the same issue. The door is a structural part of the fuselage. Towing the aircraft with the door open can cause structural damage to the airframe.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Learjets and some other business jets have the same issue. The door is a structural part of the fuselage. Towing the aircraft with the door open can cause structural damage to the airframe.
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We were not allowed to tow with the door open, but not for structural reasons, but rather the door was close to the ground and under certain circumstances could hit the ground.

I can understand the door structural thing, but if that's an issue during towing with.... an extra .01 G...????
 
jordane93 said:
It sucks when it flies open in the middle of the winter in NY
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And when that happens in the south east in the summer that's called a blessing.

Have had it happen to me a couple of times in a cherokee, top isn't quite latched or pops open at the top, I just choose to enjoy the A/C and keep rollin.
 
Kritchlow said:
We were not allowed to tow with the door open, but not for structural reasons, but rather the door was close to the ground and under certain circumstances could hit the ground.

I can understand the door structural thing, but if that's an issue during towing with.... an extra .01 G...????
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Look at the size of the door in respect to the circumference of the fuselage. The door takes up about 30% or more of the fuselage. On some aircraft such as this, the engineers accounted for the door being closed and latched to take a lot of the stress off of the surrounding door frame. Its not necessarily a G loading issue, but one of twisting/bending momentum on the fuselage.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Look at the size of the door in respect to the circumference of the fuselage. The door takes up about 30% or more of the fuselage. On some aircraft such as this, the engineers accounted for the door being closed and latched to take a lot of the stress off of the surrounding door frame. Its not necessarily a G loading issue, but one of twisting/bending momentum on the fuselage.
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Okay. Perhaps it is some percentage, but nowhere close to 1/3 on the airplanes I'm talking about.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Look at the size of the door in respect to the circumference of the fuselage. The door takes up about 30% or more of the fuselage. On some aircraft such as this, the engineers accounted for the door being closed and latched to take a lot of the stress off of the surrounding door frame. Its not necessarily a G loading issue, but one of twisting/bending momentum on the fuselage.
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Ahh... 1/3 the circumference... but really.... during towing that makes that much of a diffence?? Yet it can take several G's with the door closed??
 
Direct from the Lear 45 manual, want to keep arguing?

2. Aircraft Towing
CAUTION: ENSURE THAT EMERGENCY EXIT DOOR AND LOWER
PASSENGER/CREW DOOR IS CLOSED AND LATCHED WHEN TAXIING OR TOWING
THE AIRCRAFT. THIS IS TO AVOID POSSIBLE AIRCRAFT STRUCTURAL OR
EMERGENCY EXIT DOOR DAMAGE.
 
That still doesn't mean the door is providing rigidity to the fuselage. You snag that door on some low object or the ground and I bet it can do some serious damage to both the door and the aircraft. If the lower door provides rigidity to the fuselage, the upper door (no warning on leaving that open) probably has a bigger role. Suspect the emergency door hinges can't take being bounced along with it open.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Direct from the Lear 45 manual, want to keep arguing?

2. Aircraft Towing
CAUTION: ENSURE THAT EMERGENCY EXIT DOOR AND LOWER
PASSENGER/CREW DOOR IS CLOSED AND LATCHED WHEN TAXIING OR TOWING
THE AIRCRAFT. THIS IS TO AVOID POSSIBLE AIRCRAFT STRUCTURAL OR
EMERGENCY EXIT DOOR DAMAGE.
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Considering it only mandates the bottom half be closed, the 'structural damage' it warns of is probably the door getting ripped off on a stray chock.
 
luvflyin said:
I've been thinking about something to do on my next BFR. Just gotta find a CFI who says 'cool' lets go instead of Huh!
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It was fun!,, I did try it a few times and mostly did great... once had more headwind than I planned for and was short, needed power to make the field., just trim it up for best glide speed, idle power, and no flaps... stable descending, then use the doors to turn, and yes, both to increase the decent. just can't flair for landing.. not good to land on the nose wheel first!.
 
Glenn D said:
It was fun!,, I did try it a few times and mostly did great... once had more headwind than I planned for and was short, needed power to make the field., just trim it up for best glide speed, idle power, and no flaps... stable descending, then use the doors to turn, and yes, both to increase the decent. just can't flair for landing.. not good to land on the nose wheel first!.
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All right. More ammo for the high wing, two doors low wing one door debate
 
Seem to recall an accident with something like a C210 where the forward baggage door being open caused excessive drag and a crash on departure....but otherwise doors at generally not a problem.
 
I've had them pop several times, in different planes. Some because some pinhead (i.e. me :oops: ) forgot to latch the door fully. Some due to poor mx on old rentals. Those that pop on take-off, most common, I just fly the pattern, land and fix on the ground. It's safe and quick. Those that pop higher up I often just deal with the noise. Those have been rare and the worn out rentals.

I read too many postings and articles about crashes as someone tried to deal with the door instead of flying. I just fly the dang plane, then deal with the door on the ground. Saving a few minutes is just not worth the risk.
 
On Cessna 310's when the door pops open in flight the air flow between the right engine nacelle and the fuselage creates a Ventura effect. Pulls the door open with authority. With this effect it is not a good idea to use flaps on landing in low wing twins with an open door directly above the wing as it can set up a buffet on the right tail surfaces according to an engineer friend. No personal experience though.
 
Had it happen once in a Bonanza. The only bad part is that I had a first time flyer (at least in a GA plane) with me. Once he realized he wasn't going to die, it wasn't bad.

He kept commenting about how I kept my cool. He didn't realize that I knew what he didn't...it's not a big deal. Guess flying the Cub with door open all those hours was good practice.
 
Ryanb said:
Had it happen twice, once with a DPE during the initial takeoff climb. No biggie.
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Late in primary training my instructor popped the door on the 172 right as we were at the point where you could barely get it down if you tried. Elected to fly the pattern and he closed it once we were back on the ground.
 
I'd like to say it's never happened to me, but my ratio of seat belt beating the sheet out of the fuselage to popped open door is holding steady at 2 to 1
 
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