Flying under the influence

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Mtns2Skies

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Mtns2Skies
Today after coming back from a flight in a 172 with a buddy (I was not PIC) we were to hand the keys off to the next pilot who was college-aged and reeked of marijuana, and he definitely was not acting correctly. He was accompanied by 3 other friends also smelling of it. My buddy refused to give the keys but the next "pilot" grabbed them and walked out the FBO door towards the plane. We sat there stunned for a minute when my buddy decided to call the owner of the flight school. While this was happening his three friends sat on the couch in the FBO seemingly oblivious to what was going on. I kept an eye on the plane to see if it was going to start up, ready to drive my truck out there to stop him - but I figured as long as his three friends were inside he wasn't yet ready to leave.

The flight school owner showed up, living only a few minutes away, and grabbed the kid and brought him into a nearby hangar to have a "chat" with him. Not sure what happened after that but I later learned this "pilot" was blacklisted from renting there already due to some illegal low-level buzzing.

Anyway I guess the lesson learned was to feel okay about speaking up when necessary. I do believe this guy's 3 friends were unknowingly in danger due to their pilot being severely under the influence.
 
Not trying to be off topic, but how is one tested to be considered over the limit for driving or flying after smoking marijuana..??

I mean besides obvious behavior.
 
Zeldman said:
Not trying to be off topic, but how is one tested to be considered over the limit for driving or flying after smoking marijuana..??

I mean besides obvious behavior.
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Q: Is there a legal limit for marijuana impairment while operating a vehicle?

A: Colorado law specifies that drivers with five nanograms of active tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in their whole blood can be prosecuted for driving under the influence (DUI). However, no matter the level of THC, law enforcement officers base arrests on observed impairment.
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https://www.codot.gov/safety/alcohol-and-impaired-driving/druggeddriving/marijuana-and-driving
 
Damn. Unpleasant situation. Good for you for speaking up, for sure.
 
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It probably doesn't feel good, but good job getting involved. Worst case for you - he was fine and wouldn't have had a problem. More likely you were right, he was under the influence and would have done some really poor decision making and endangered other people.
 
We had a Navion crash years back which involved some "here, hold my beer" acrobatics.
 
Hmm, low level buzzed buzzing in a heavily loaded 172. What could possibly go wrong?

Yeah, stopping that was a good call.

I hope that didn't stop at the flight school door. A "pilot" with judgment that bad should not be flying.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Today after coming back from a flight in a 172 with a buddy (I was not PIC) we were to hand the keys off to the next pilot who was college-aged and reeked of marijuana, and he definitely was not acting correctly. He was accompanied by 3 other friends also smelling of it. My buddy refused to give the keys but the next "pilot" grabbed them and walked out the FBO door towards the plane. We sat there stunned for a minute when my buddy decided to call the owner of the flight school. While this was happening his three friends sat on the couch in the FBO seemingly oblivious to what was going on. I kept an eye on the plane to see if it was going to start up, ready to drive my truck out there to stop him - but I figured as long as his three friends were inside he wasn't yet ready to leave.

The flight school owner showed up, living only a few minutes away, and grabbed the kid and brought him into a nearby hangar to have a "chat" with him. Not sure what happened after that but I later learned this "pilot" was blacklisted from renting there already due to some illegal low-level buzzing.

Anyway I guess the lesson learned was to feel okay about speaking up when necessary. I do believe this guy's 3 friends were unknowingly in danger due to their pilot being severely under the influence.
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Good call, you may have saved 4 lives minimum.
 
Great job stepping in and putting a stop to it. Too many people these days do not do the responsible thing in situations like that. I think our country would be in far better shape if actions like yours were the norm rather than the exception. Well done!
 
Yikes. :eek2: I don't care what someone does when they're not flying or planning to go flying in the near future. But a pilot who is obviously under the influence grabbing the keys intending to fly anyway? Nope, not if I can help it. Good on you and your buddy for stepping in. :thumbsup:
 
Found out today his picture is on the FBO wall and he's banned from the airport. Not sure if this went to the FAA or not. The flight school owner thanked us for letting him know and that was as far as it went for us.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Found out today his picture is on the FBO wall and he's banned from the airport. Not sure if this went to the FAA or not. The flight school owner thanked us for letting him know and that was as far as it went for us.
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It really needs to. Sure it is handled at your airport/FBO but as long as he has a pilot certificate, he can go elsewhere, get checked out while sober and then later on sometime repeat this same behavior. He needs more than a ban at a single place.
 
Zeldman said:
Not trying to be off topic, but how is one tested to be considered over the limit for driving or flying after smoking marijuana..??

I mean besides obvious behavior.
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I'd wager if you still even smell like weed, probably still in your system.

Even if he wasn't high, but somehow ended up smelling like weed..somehow, showing up to rent a plane smelling like weed is a great indicator of a failed level of judgement.



Per the OP, good call!
 
SkyDog58 said:
It really needs to. Sure it is handled at your airport/FBO but as long as he has a pilot certificate, he can go elsewhere, get checked out while sober and then later on sometime repeat this same behavior. He needs more than a ban at a single place.
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I agree with you... and he very well may have been reported to the FAA... I just don't know, and I also don't know his name.

So if someone were to report a pilot like this, who do you call the FSDO?
 
James331 said:
I'd wager if you still even smell like weed, probably still in your system.

Even if he wasn't high, but somehow ended up smelling like weed..somehow, showing up to rent a plane smelling like weed is a great indicator of a failed level of judgement.



Per the OP, good call!
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It gets in clothing, upholstery, even hair, so it can persist for a very long time and it doesn't necessarily mean the guy is high right now. Especially if the guy is a slob.

It DOES indicate poor judgment, as you say.
 
MAKG1 said:
It gets in clothing, upholstery, even hair, so it can persist for a very long time and it doesn't necessarily mean the guy is high right now. Especially if the guy is a slob.

It DOES indicate poor judgment, as you say.
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Poor enough to tell me he's gotta be high or drunk.

Similar issue, I was about to leave for work, grabbed the dog food out of the fridge to feed the pup before I left, knocked over a beer, hit the ground and popped, clean it up, feed the dog, noticed I had a little beer goodness on me, shirt into the washer, new shirt on, went to work, it didn't even dawn on me to just drive to work smelling like beer, even though I'd blow a 0.00.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
I agree with you... and he very well may have been reported to the FAA... I just don't know, and I also don't know his name.

So if someone were to report a pilot like this, who do you call the FSDO?
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Which dept of the FAA do you need to report a DUI? Same place. Security & Investigations, IIRC.
 
MAKG1 said:
It gets in clothing, upholstery, even hair, so it can persist for a very long time and it doesn't necessarily mean the guy is high right now. Especially if the guy is a slob.

It DOES indicate poor judgment, as you say.
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Yep. But the OP also said that he was "not acting right" IIRC, which I take to mean that he was obviously high. One could argue whether a layman is capable of making that judgment, but I think in most cases it's pretty easy to tell (glassy, bloodshot eyes, giggliness, etc.)
 
Everskyward said:
https://www.codot.gov/safety/alcohol-and-impaired-driving/druggeddriving/marijuana-and-driving
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This is the law, and I'm not arguing that pot and aviation mix.

That said, it is also true that pot has a much wider range of effects than booze. So the law cited is an understandably conservative limit. Some people (based in at least some cases upon biology rather than tolerance acquired through habitual use) can tolerate levels ten times that law and barely be buzzed. I know one person personally who is almost completely unaffected by THC. We've done informal testing on him. With normal levels he simply doesn't feel anything nor have any cognitive deficits. In his case it's definitely not habit breeding tolerance because he's smoked (or eaten) only about ten times in his life (because why spend money chasing a buzz that isn't happening).

So, anyway, like I said I'm not arguing that anyone should be doing this. But as the nation increasingly leans in this direction it's worth noting that some of the mechanisms used to determine intoxication will need to be tweaked because THC is simply different.
 
Man, I've always thought us pilots held ourselves to a slightly higher standard. I know there are bad apples in every bunch, but with the equity involved in getting and keeping a pilot's license you would think people would certainly think twice before doing something that may cost them their ticket. I guess I live in a padded world, none of the pilots I know would ever do recreational drugs, and those that drink would certainly never fly until the influence.
 
Glad you made sure that flight never happened. Just joining the bandwagon in saying thanks.
 
good on you op...The problem with stoners is that they don't realize what the weed does to their cognitive skills.

You hear the argument about, lawyers smoke weed, blah blah blah, surgeons, blah blah....yes we know they do and yes we can tell which ones do it because it's obvious.
 
PaulS said:
Dumbass potheads. Good job, you snatched one away from Darwin.
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Sometimes Darwin needs to have its way... just saying.

Good job on saving some lives on the ground and a good airplane.. And, keeping GA in a favorable light.
 
Just because he gets his license pulled doesn't mean he stops flying. How many stories have we heard of non-licensed pilots flying a plane from a "buddy".

Regardless, great job on stopping him from going up. You definitely saved the FBO owners some major liability and more importantly 4 lives.
 
SkyDog58 said:
It does make it far more difficult though if you can't rent from a FBO or flight school.
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There are all kinds of ways around that, such as having one of those 3 friends rent for him (assuming they have a license) and he flies anyway.

Just saying, if a person is really determined to do something stupid, they'll find a way :).

Heck a few FBO's where I live don't even keep their keys and books locked up. They have their books and keys out in the open. If someone was so inclined they could walk right in, take the keys and go fly without ever having to speak with anyone. Sad but true..
 
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Caramon13 said:
There are all kinds of ways around that, such as having one of those 3 friends rent for him (assuming they have a license) and he flies anyway.

Just saying, if a person is really determined to do something stupid, they'll find a way :).
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Oh, I don't disagree with that. I just think that the increased level of difficulty by having their certificate jerked is a good thing. Also, a stoner might be willing to fly stoned if he is otherwise legal to fly by virtue of having a certificate but he might not be willing to violate the law by flying without a certificate. He is more likely to recognize the legal barrier versus his own impairment.
 
SkyDog58 said:
It does make it far more difficult though if you can't rent from a FBO or flight school.
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Not if he still has his plastic cert, never seen a FBO actually run a guy through the airman database.
 
If this guy is banned from one FBO I'm sure word gets around the airport and no one would want him to rent. Aviation community is small and word travels quickly.
 
The odd thing here, assuming I read the OP correctly, is that this guy was already blacklisted from renting due to some other stupid pilot tricks. So how is it that he managed to schedule a plane? Or at least, that his reservation wasn't canceled by the FBO before he came to pick up the keys?
 
azure said:
The odd thing here, assuming I read the OP correctly, is that this guy was already blacklisted from renting due to some other stupid pilot tricks. So how is it that he managed to schedule a plane? Or at least, that his reservation wasn't canceled by the FBO before he came to pick up the keys?
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I have no familiarity with the particular FBO, but it's not at all uncommon for keys to be obtainable without any interaction with the staff or any reservation. The previous flying club I operated out of kept the keys in a locked cabinet, and the key was in a lockbox on the wall with a code everyone knew. Sometimes they are even kept in the open.
 
MAKG1 said:
I have no familiarity with the particular FBO, but it's not at all uncommon for keys to be obtainable without any interaction with the staff or any reservation. The previous flying club I operated out of kept the keys in a locked cabinet, and the key was in a lockbox on the wall with a code everyone knew. Sometimes they are even kept in the open.
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Sure, and sometimes they're left in the plane itself (flight school I rented from before and after my PPL checkride). But if the pilot has to pick them up, isn't there usually someone behind the desk who can monitor entries through the door and when a blacklisted person walks toward the lockbox, can say "nonono, wait a minute..."

If such measures were not in place here, seems like questionable security practices, to say the least...
 
azure said:
Sure, and sometimes they're left in the plane itself (flight school I rented from before and after my PPL checkride). But if the pilot has to pick them up, isn't there usually someone behind the desk who can monitor entries through the door and when a blacklisted person walks toward the lockbox, can say "nonono, wait a minute..."

If such measures were not in place here, seems like questionable security practices, to say the least...
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Even if you show up in the middle of the night?

Most outfits offer 24/7 access.

A few do it by arrangement only, but that's the exception.

If the keys are left in the plane, what keeps them from going to the plane without talking to anyone at all? Note that most airports do not have access control to the ramp.
 
MAKG1 said:
Even if you show up in the middle of the night?

Most outfits offer 24/7 access.

A few do it by arrangement only, but that's the exception.

If the keys are left in the plane, what keeps them from going to the plane without talking to anyone at all? Note that most airports do not have access control to the ramp.
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Well there should at least be a reservation system, if online someone could cancel the reservation, or if requiring an account to reserve, could deactivate his account.

But you're right, there isn't much most common systems could do about someone showing up at night, though someone doing that without a reservation should trigger an immediate blacklist. And there are ways around it, like bio-ID to open the lockbox. But I doubt if many FBOs at small airports today are being THAT careful.

I agree, leaving the keys in the plane is the laxest security of all. I'm not sure, but I wonder if that violated some post-9/11 federal requirements. I can only imagine that the people who owned that facility never had to deal with anything like this. It's probably pretty rare.

All of which leads me to think that getting the FAA involved might be the best move at this point... though even if that happens, the FAA's power to prevent a recurrence is pretty limited.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Oh, I don't disagree with that. I just think that the increased level of difficulty by having their certificate jerked is a good thing. Also, a stoner might be willing to fly stoned if he is otherwise legal to fly by virtue of having a certificate but he might not be willing to violate the law by flying without a certificate. He is more likely to recognize the legal barrier versus his own impairment.
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Sorry, I don't agree. If he is so reckless that he will fly while impaired, the lack of a small piece of plastic with Wilbur and Orville on it won't stop him if he has access to a plane. -Skip
 
So at my local airport you can apparently get into any hangar where there is an open box of keys that will open all the locked planes so you can take all of the fancy expensive stuff while nobody is there most of the evening, night, and early AM. So I am guessing if you wanted to drunk fly a plane, it could easily be done. And its a class C
 
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