Flying under the influence

[Ravioli]

When you have to blacklist someone, changing the combination to the keybox and informing allowed individuals of the new code seems like a good minimum.

Also, you should never hand the keys to any other pilot... hand them to the person at the desk, or lock them in the box where they belong. If the next pilot doesn't know the combo than it's on him/her to call someone and work it out.

Same as never sharing your computer password.

 

[mfisher]

I have no familiarity with the particular FBO, but it's not at all uncommon for keys to be obtainable without any interaction with the staff or any reservation. The previous flying club I operated out of kept the keys in a locked cabinet, and the key was in a lockbox on the wall with a code everyone knew. Sometimes they are even kept in the open.

You don't need the key to open the door on a Cessna. You don't need the key to start the engine either.

 

[Ravioli]

You don't need the key to open the door on a Cessna. You don't need the key to start the engine either.

In which case a prop lock would seem to be a worthwhile investment.

In the '90's my boss told me of a guy who did one flight lesson in Toronto and then stole the plane the next night. He ended up crashing it on the US side of the border. Most of the remorse was for the loss of the plane.

 

[mscard88]

In which case a prop lock would seem to be a worthwhile investment.

.

Yup as long as you remember to remove it before cranking up! The was a pilot from S. America (forget the country) who was attending one of the US Air Force's Air University schools in Montgomery AL and bought a Cessna 337 and had it completely refurbished. One day he cranked up the back engine and, yup, he did it.

 

[MAKG1]

Yup as long as you remember to remove it before cranking up! The was a pilot from S. America (forget the country) who was attending one of the US Air Force's Air University schools in Montgomery AL and bought a Cessna 337 and had it completely refurbished. One day he cranked up the back engine and, yup, he did it.

A throttle lock would do as well, without the risk of damage. You might be able to start it, but you won't get far at idle.

I kinda like the old CAP solution with a big metal plate over the radio stack, that locks all the knobs all the way out (including the mixture at ICO) and the control lock in place, but those are expensive. Gotta see a stoned pothead get THAT off, even with the key. It's hard enough for a sharp but new mission pilot.

 

[Jim Case]

Today after coming back from a flight in a 172 with a buddy (I was not PIC) we were to hand the keys off to the next pilot who was college-aged and reeked of marijuana, and he definitely was not acting correctly. He was accompanied by 3 other friends also smelling of it. My buddy refused to give the keys but the next "pilot" grabbed them and walked out the FBO door towards the plane. We sat there stunned for a minute when my buddy decided to call the owner of the flight school. While this was happening his three friends sat on the couch in the FBO seemingly oblivious to what was going on. I kept an eye on the plane to see if it was going to start up, ready to drive my truck out there to stop him - but I figured as long as his three friends were inside he wasn't yet ready to leave.

The flight school owner showed up, living only a few minutes away, and grabbed the kid and brought him into a nearby hangar to have a "chat" with him. Not sure what happened after that but I later learned this "pilot" was blacklisted from renting there already due to some illegal low-level buzzing.

Anyway I guess the lesson learned was to feel okay about speaking up when necessary. I do believe this guy's 3 friends were unknowingly in danger due to their pilot being severely under the influence.

You did the right thing. I've done this before as well, expept in the case I did it was alcohol, it turned out the guy was working with medical tools and spilled some isopropyl on himself. He wasn't upset that I called the instructor though, and he flew out a litttle later than expected and all was good, after a quick sobriety test.

 

[labbadabba]

I have no familiarity with the particular FBO, but it's not at all uncommon for keys to be obtainable without any interaction with the staff or any reservation. The previous flying club I operated out of kept the keys in a locked cabinet, and the key was in a lockbox on the wall with a code everyone knew. Sometimes they are even kept in the open.

Heck, my old flying club just kept the keys in the plane. Granted, the planes (at least cosmetically) were not worth stealing.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

There are all kinds of ways around that, such as having one of those 3 friends rent for him (assuming they have a license) and he flies anyway.

Just saying, if a person is really determined to do something stupid, they'll find a way .

Heck a few FBO's where I live don't even keep their keys and books locked up. They have their books and keys out in the open. If someone was so inclined they could walk right in, take the keys and go fly without ever having to speak with anyone. Sad but true..

That's not sad. That's the epitome of living in a free self regulated society. Sounds damn nice to me.

 

[MedicineMan]

Not trying to be off topic, but how is one tested to be considered over the limit for driving or flying after smoking marijuana..??

I mean besides obvious behavior.

Since "state legal" is a total MYTH, a person is "under the influece" after using ANY amount of pot.

Pilots are regulated by FAA, the "F" being FEDERAL.
Marijuana is ILLEGAL in ALL States by FEDERAL LAW.

The same far that says you do not fly under influence of "legally prescribed" LEGAL medications which cause impairment would apply as well.

It is time to "weed" out the potheads in GA to save the healthy productive crop.

 

[azure]

Ummm... do you really think "potheads in GA" are a significant problem?

Do ya think you're maybe tilting at windmills?

 

[flyingron]

Our club gave you a set of keys and the W&B information for each plane you were authorized to fly. You called up and scheduled it and then went out and flew.

 

[MedicineMan]

Ummm... do you really think "potheads in GA" are a significant problem?

Do ya think you're maybe tilting at windmills?

With the stupidity of State laws, and going by some of the recent posts here on just this board lately ???
YES, I do think it is BECOMING a problem.

NO.
Standing for what is LEGAL and RIGHT, and what is best for an entire segment of people, is NEVER A WASTE OF TIME.
Marijuana users, within the bounds of the United States, are ALL CRIMINALS. PERIOD !!!

 

[azure]

Wow. Judgmental much? I feel for any pothead that calls 911 for some kind of medical issue and gets you for an EMT.

But... whatever.

 

[MedicineMan]

You can have no worries about my ability or willingness to help anyone in need.
Everyone got the same high standard of care, from "granny" to the DUI who killed the other driver.
That is not my place to decide.
If anything, I was "too sympathetic and caring" at times for my bosses.

I am now RETIRED, and did so with an outstanding record.
So you can also stop trying to disparage my professional abilities just because I believe in the law, as I have not done so to you.

I merely stated FACT.
The substance IS illegal in all 50 States.
Already there are MANY posts where a potential pilot has been "busted" in the past and is having problems.
And even this one here where a pilot took action to stop another from taking off.
So I do think in a community so small as GA, that the number of "stories" shows a problem.

Also, there are quite a few people in the so-called "legal" states who are finding out their 2nd Amendment rights are GONE because of pot use. The form 4473 asks about it, and unless the lie, they are DENIED purchase of a firearm.

Do I think marijuana is "the demon weed" ???
NOT BY A LONG SHOT.

It has NUMEROUS uses for MEDICAL reasons that I would love to see explored, researched, and developed.
IOW - I am an outspoken advocate for MEDICAL marijuana.

But this thread/post was not about that.
It is about the INCREASE in usage by persons who are (or intend to be) a pilot, and the FACT that FAA is Federal and follows Federal Laws making ANY use a CRIME.
No amount of wishing, hoping, or "thinking" changes that. ONLY a change in Federal Law will make it "okay".

And let me be CRYSTAL CLEAR about my actions if someone I care about is ever harmed in a crash.....
The pilot WILL be (as part of the investigation) alcohol tested, AND DRUG tested by "hair test".

 

[Cajun_Flyer]

Why are WE typing with SOME words in CAPS and some that are NOT?

Holy crazy.

I'm just as apprehensive of hotheads in the air as I am of potheads.

 

[forsonsinc]

It's for emphasis....text fails to convey the proper degree of emotion.

 

[azure]

I am now RETIRED, and did so with an outstanding record.
So you can also stop trying to disparage my professional abilities just because I believe in the law, as I have not done so to you.

Nothing I said had any bearing on your professional ABILITIES. But your words convey a strong and very emotional bias against people who use marijuana. Personally if I knew a doctor or an EMT hated pilots, given a choice I sure would prefer to be treated by someone else.

Already there are MANY posts where a potential pilot has been "busted" in the past and is having problems.
And even this one here where a pilot took action to stop another from taking off.

Potential pilot, yes. The weed is and has been widely used by millions of people in this country for many years, so I don't find that at all surprising. I wouldn't be surprised if a fair percentage of pilots used it recreationally in the privacy of their homes (or their friends' homes) and not prior to operating a motor vehicle or airplane. But just before or while flying? I haven't seen any evidence that that's anywhere near the level of being a problem. What's your evidence that it is?

So I do think in a community so small as GA, that the number of "stories" shows a problem.

Anecdotes != data.

Also, there are quite a few people in the so-called "legal" states who are finding out their 2nd Amendment rights are GONE because of pot use. The form 4473 asks about it, and unless the lie, they are DENIED purchase of a firearm.

And that's because of the way the law is written, which doesn't make it reasonable.

Do I think marijuana is "the demon weed" ???
NOT BY A LONG SHOT.

It has NUMEROUS uses for MEDICAL reasons that I would love to see explored, researched, and developed.
IOW - I am an outspoken advocate for MEDICAL marijuana.

That's an interesting position, because it's a running joke that in some areas you can get a medical prescription for cannabis for practically any minor ailment (a Garfunkel and Oates song famously pokes fun at the trend) and I don't think anyone really knows how much abuse there is of medical marijuana laws by recreational users.

But I'm glad to hear that you approve of valid medicinal use. Your earlier posts certainly didn't make any distinction between medicinal and other use, in fact you categorically said that marijuana users were all criminals, PERIOD. [sic]

But this thread/post was not about that.
It is about the INCREASE in usage by persons who are (or intend to be) a pilot, and the FACT that FAA is Federal and follows Federal Laws making ANY use a CRIME.

Again, I haven't seen any *evidence* for an increase in usage by pilots or prospective pilots. The stuff has been everywhere since the 1960s at least, likely earlier.

No amount of wishing, hoping, or "thinking" changes that. ONLY a change in Federal Law will make it "okay".

That much is certainly true, and I've never argued otherwise.

 

[Clark1961]

Interesting even if incorrect legal position claiming marijuana is illegal in all 50 states. Marijuana possession and use is not illegal in all 50 states. Marijuana possession and use is illegal by federal law. Many states have legalized marijuana for medical and recreational use. The facts of the various laws set up a case that no one seems to want to test and that is the feds attempting to prosecute for possession and use in one of the states that have legalized it. The feds really don't want a state's rights test. For all practical purposes marijuana possession and use is legal in many states and including the District of Columbia. Just don't ship it interstate and don't try to mix the marijuana business and the financial system.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Which dept of the FAA do you need to report a DUI? Same place. Security & Investigations, IIRC.

And at what point, for a Part 91 operation, does it become "illegal"? The reg in Part 91 starts out "(a) No person may act or attempt to act as a crewmember of a civil aircraft..."

I'd be fairly confident that the OP's example of grabbing the keys and heading out to the airplane would constitute an "attempt to act". But at what point prior could the defense still be, "I got there, but changed my mind"?