Flying through MOA and restricted areas

[azblackbird]

In practice you never need to fly into a Restricted area on a VFR flight plan.

There's a narrow corridor outside of El Paso when coming from Odessa. If a guy wanted to fly to Las Cruces, he could go direct (with clearance) through a couple restricted areas, or take the long way around it. Part of my mythical 1500 mile XC will be going through that part of the country. I had planned to fuel up in Las Cruces, but instead will head to Deming, which is a more direct route.

 

[citizen5000]

There's a narrow corridor outside of El Paso. If a guy wanted to fly to Las Cruces, he could go direct (with clearance) through a couple restricted areas, or take the long way around it. Part of my mythical 1500 mile XC will be going through that part of the country. I had planned to fuel up in Las Cruces, but instead will head to Deming, which is a more direct route.

Suggest you save yourself complexity when still a student. You can go in any direction for your XC. Once licensed you will find there is little reason to fly thru a Restricted. There are always corridors created when more than one of them are next to each other you can use.

 

[azblackbird]

You can go in any direction for your XC.

That just so happens to be one of my directions.

 

[danhagan]

While on FF I've been within seconds of going into a very hot Restricted area, and was never alerted by FF.

AZBlackBird... you ever fly between Gila Bend and Ajo (R-2305 and associated areas)??? It's one of the hottest restricted areas, because of the Goldwater Gunnery range, Luke, and Yuma.

On a July 4th several years back when AZ had storms everywhere especially/predominantly along the I-10 corridor, ABQ ATC arranged for me direct from just north of Marana towards Yuma across all the restricted areas. After I got that clearance, a bunch of IFRs asked if they could get the same.

There's a narrow corridor outside of El Paso when coming from Odessa. If a guy wanted to fly to Las Cruces, he could go direct (with clearance) through a couple restricted areas, or take the long way around it. Part of my mythical 1500 mile XC will be going through that part of the country. I had planned to fuel up in Las Cruces, but instead will head to Deming, which is a more direct route.

Just fly through Anthony Gap, which is near the lower edge of the restricted area. The restricted area furthest south, ATC will often allow you to "clip" if requested if they are able. If you look at the sectional and place a Presidential TFR over Biggs Field, then all traffic east-west is shut down (restricted north-presidential the remainder all the way to the border). El Paso approach has control, and unless you're a heavy / commercial, they aren't letting you through even the outer ring. Got blocked once when Obama was in town and had to sit at Fabens airport for a couple of hours.

For MOAs in our area, FF will generally tell you everything is high speed down low (check VR routes also - that's where they're hauling butt at usually at 200-500 AGL) and you'll get a "maintain at or above" altitude if anything is going on ... also, for West Texas pilots, the Mexican air force (didn't even know they had one until last year on a return from Austin) practices down low south of Guadalupe Peak near the Hueco mountains (they don't listen well to ATC, and you'll probably be asked to relay a message to them when they screw up).

 

[azblackbird]

Just fly through Anthony Gap, which is near the lower edge of the restricted area. The restricted area furthest south, ATC will often allow you to "clip" if requested if they are able.

I'll just play it safe and stay south and transition over El Paso airspace and then head direct for Deming. I don't want to complicate things ya know.

 

[NoBShere]

Yes, it's good to be aware of that, although he may not have been in the alert area, since Travis Approach handles airspace outside it too.

Exactly, I never entered it nor did my course appear to likely enter it at anytime. That is what surprised me. As palm said they work an area larger than their charted space. Someone mentioned it might be part of their training program although don't know if that is true or not.

And palmpilot, i was just trying to make a joke, although poorly, regarding your earlier reply to my comment.

 

[Velocity173]

Exactly, I never entered it nor did my course appear to likely enter it at anytime. That is what surprised me. As palm said they work an area larger than their charted space. Someone mentioned it might be part of their training program although don't know if that is true or not.

And palmpilot, i was just trying to make a joke, although poorly, regarding your earlier reply to my comment.

The airspace dimensions aren't really important. None of it's charted for approach and unless you took a tour of Travis, you won't know anyway. For a Class D that has a TRACON, in this case, a RAPCON, its recommended to call at least 25 miles out. They should be able to work you under FF much further out than that though.

What's nice about Travis is they have the approach freqs on the sectional. They should make that a standard.

 

[Palmpilot]

The airspace dimensions aren't really important. None of it's charted for approach and unless you took a tour of Travis, you won't know anyway. For a Class D that has a TRACON, in this case, a RAPCON, its recommended to call at least 25 miles out. They should be able to work you under FF much further out than that though.

What's nice about Travis is they have the approach freqs on the sectional. They should make that a standard.

The alert area is charted. That might be why the frequencies are on the chart. And the altitude limits are shown on the border of the sectional.

 

[Velocity173]

The alert area is charted. That might be why the frequencies are on the chart. And the altitude limits are shown on the border of the sectional.

I'm referring to Travis's airspace, not the alert area. He seemed confused as to why he was talking to AF controllers and what airspace they handle. It's simple, they are a Class D with approach based there and their airspace isn't depicted on a chart.

The freq tabs they have aren't standard. OZR is a Class D approach (ARAC) with an alert area as well but no freq tabs. I do like the freq tab idea though. Been saying they should have that on sectionals for years.

Speaking of alert areas. OZR's is extremely busy. Everyone is worried about what goes on in MOAs, (they should) but you'd have just as much of a chance of a face to face military encounter in some alert areas. As I said, you need local knowledge of what goes on in SUA in order to make an informed decision about transitioning.