Flying Mag $5 year

ateamer said:
I liked flying when Bax and Len Morgan wrote for it.

Mac is not a good fit for Sport Aviation. I'd like to see it be exclusively on homebuilts.
Click to expand...

Bax was simply the best, and Len Morgan a close #2. True, Mac is a misfit for Sport Aviation, but then half their articles are. What I've found I like now about Mac is his insights. I still remember an article a year or so ago about the potential pilots we should be reaching out to are not kids who won't take up flying for years or decades, but retiring Boomers with time, cash, and a lifelong dream to learn to fly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
N747JB said:
Aviation and automobile magazines are in an odd situation between readers and advertisers. Aviation and auto manufacturers are usually the big money advertisers in both, so ACTUAL reviews are not good for revenue. Imagine if you will, Flying or AOPA doing a review on current certified avionics. Let's say they found the Avidyne superior in every way to the Garmin, not saying it is, but for the argument let's say that's what they publish. What happens to the 8 pages of advertising that Garmin buys every month?? :dunno: I'll tell you what happens they shift most or all their budget to the other magazine. ;)
What if they call the latest B/K vapor ware, vapor ware?? Does B/K dump them too?
Same with airplane manufacturers, who's paying for ad space? Aeronca or Cessna?
While the subscriptions are important, a magazine needs readers to justify ad revenue, it's the ad revenue is what makes money and ultimately supports the bottom line. :D
I like all aviation magazines, I keep them in the smallest room in my house and read them while I am seated. :D
Click to expand...


The advertisers haven't quite figured out yet that no one cares. Anyone here, raise your hand, actually give a crap about the content in any Garmin print ad you've ever read?

The Internet changes things this way: it's not hard to find someone who owns and uses even relatively esoteric stuff for sale. You can't throw a rock and not hit a Garmin owner/operator when talking about the more common stuff.

What would you rather do, talk to a current owner / operator or read some ad agency's pitch?

Nobody buys the magazines for the ads but the ads pay the bill. They're in a very precarious business at this point.

Manufacturers have dabbled in the Internet but they create user forums that are carefully patrolled and cleansed of negative feedback. The Internet "routes around the problem" in websites that don't make the bills by selling ads.

The very first thing I look for on a website with a review is whether it's paid for by ads from the reviewed products. If it is, the red flags go up.
 
Scott@KTYR said:
WOW - now I have seen everything!!! What is next, Pot Hole Monthly?
Click to expand...

You guys don't get it, in a city, parking is a license to print money, way better margin than an apartment building and less hassle; storage as well.
 
Ahh, old enough to remember Tom McCahill writing about cars for Mechanics Illustrated. He was a Michigan guy and I met him a couple of times. The kind of guy you could/would want to go to the bar and tie one on with. He was an original. I always wanted a Mexican road race Chrysler 300 like the ones that Tom wrote about. By the time I could afford one, the world had moved on - and my self control had improved.
Yeah, Time magazine and many others are now pamphlets consisting of ads.
Print is a dinosaur, but will never go away. - at least until electronic media can be put in the bottom of the bird cage. The net is evolving so rapidly we don't even perceive it - much like a spinning prop. The PC, the laptop, the tablet, the TV and the phone are morphing into a single item - dunno what it will be but it is going to cost you a bundle in monthly fees.
But - If you go back 35 years and add up what your phone and your newspaper, your clubs, going to movies, and all your magazine subscriptions ran you a month (in 2014 dollars and as a percentage of your income) I suspect they won't be that far apart
 
Advertising dollars shaping results are exactly why no one cares anymore. The next horizon is bloggers, customer feedback sites, forums like this (sometimes), etc. That's why I like Amazon, I can read reviews of those who actually bought the product, estimate their veracity, and make a buying choice. If I was trying to build a consumer product, I would have people pursuing sites like this looking for issues and addressing them. I notice on Beechtalk that Garmin has a rep that address' their issues on the site. It is amazing to me that NO major aviation product manufacturers post here.
 
Somebody in a post here mentioned Gordon Baxter.

Is there a current Baxter? Who is similar to him writing today?

For motorcycles and cars I like Peter Egan. I know he is a pilot and rebuilt and flew a Cub Xcountry. Does he still write about flying?
 
I like Flying because that's where I get my Harbor Freight coupons.
 
RalphInCA said:
Is there a current Baxter? Who is similar to him writing today?
Click to expand...
Not really. The closest, in terms of writing ability and adventures, would be William Langewiesche, son of Wolfgang of "Stick and Rudder" fame. However I don't know if or where he regularly writes about aircraft. He has several books out on very different topics, all worth the read. I think he also regularly writes on a variety of issues for Vanity Fair mag (don't hold that against him).

Others try, like Amy Laboda or Lane Wallace, but have neither the writing chops nor the adventures to be anywhere close to the old timers like Ernie Gann and the others. Aviation has matured and there are simply few if any real adventures left anymore--probably not a bad thing. There are good writers still being produced somehow in today's world of mediocrity, but none active in aviation.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Advertising dollars shaping results are exactly why no one cares anymore. The next horizon is bloggers, customer feedback sites, forums like this (sometimes), etc. That's why I like Amazon, I can read reviews of those who actually bought the product, estimate their veracity, and make a buying choice. If I was trying to build a consumer product, I would have people pursuing sites like this looking for issues and addressing them. I notice on Beechtalk that Garmin has a rep that address' their issues on the site. It is amazing to me that NO major aviation product manufacturers post here.
Click to expand...


Amazon has flat denied my reviews before. They're not "clean" in that regard.
 
Silvaire said:
Wow, that is bizarre but looking over the magazine I get the feeling that there might be some wild times to be had at a Parking Industry Convention :D
Click to expand...

Casket and Sunnyside
Blue Tick Coon Dogs
 
Alexb2000 said:
I notice on Beechtalk that Garmin has a rep that address' their issues on the site. It is amazing to me that NO major aviation product manufacturers post here.
Click to expand...

Beechtalk is a very different board than here. Better? maybe? I think there are far more real people over there, you must use your real name and it's far more civil over there. Different audience than here.
 
jonnyjetprop said:
Beechtalk is a very different board than here. Better? maybe? I think there are far more real people over there, you must use your real name and it's far more civil over there. Different audience than here.
Click to expand...

So how would you describe "here"?
 
Alexb2000 said:
So how would you describe "here"?
Click to expand...
I will take a swing at that.

I've been on POA for years, now, since the old rec.aviation groups went down in the post-Google troll wars. Keep in mind that my observations are worth every cent you paid for them:

1. There are many great people here. I have personally met quite a few, through my business, and without exception they have been outstanding ladies and gentlemen. More importantly, they have been real, live, active GA pilots.

2. There are a small but significant percentage of posers here. (We call them "KeeWees", in one of the aviation groups I belong to.) These are people who clearly and obviously rarely, if ever, fly. Perhaps they once flew, or perhaps they are just 14 year old girls having fun playing pilot -- but they tend to clutter up the joint.

3. Anonymous posters are anathema to every group. These are the biggest PIAs in any on-line group, because they instantly become internet tough guys.

What's funny is that, over time, the anonymous guys ultimately leak enough personal information so that we all figure out where and what they fly, and it becomes a trivial matter to determine their identities -- negating the whole "hide behind a fake screen name" thinking. But they persist, for reasons that escape me. (I have used my real name on every one of my thousands of posts, going back to the Usenet, pre-worldwide web days.)

4. Government types abound, and their numbers are growing. This is the most disturbing evolution that I have seen happening in the on-line piloting community.

Here's my unscientific theory as to why this is happening: As our government (all levels, not just federal) has become more and more intertwined with everything in our lives, so it has evolved that more and more people are employed by them, directly and indirectly. It's only natural that you tend not to want to bite the hand that feeds you, so this group has become (perhaps subconsciously, perhaps not) blind supporters of nearly everything the government does. This has ominous overtones for many things, but especially for the future of general aviation.

I withdrew from the Spin Zone, after realizing the futility of that place, but the rah-rah attitude toward everything government, no matter how onerous, tends to slop over into regular posts. Frankly, it's one of the hardest things I personally deal with here, as I find myself often biting my tongue and shaking my head.

I occasionally take sabbaticals from POA. I'm about three weeks away from another 5-month one, as I will be going all-out to renovate the last five rooms at the hotel this off-season, and won't have time to waste writing dumb posts like this one! ;)

But I always come back, for the camaraderie and lively debate. The internet has allowed a widely scattered, tiny group of aviation nut-jobs like us to stay in daily contact -- and it's sure hard to beat the price of admission!
:)
 
Hopefully the John Galt thing is fading out here. It was funny at first, but now it's getting annoying. He's on my ignore list, but this does not get rid of the annoyance completely.
 
Buggsy2 said:
Others try, like Amy Laboda or Lane Wallace....
Click to expand...

I haven't thought about Lane in several years. I used to enjoy her columns. And I admit to a small crush back then. I'm not sure what happened, but it seemed like her columns got..uhhh...touchy-feely? feminine?

But there was a time when she really could draw a reader in.
 
Jay Honeck said:
4. Government types abound, and their numbers are growing. This is the most disturbing evolution that I have seen happening in the on-line piloting community.
Click to expand...
And, as you can see, what's common is the handful of bigots on many forums. They gotta have a scapegoat class to explain their own failings.

I occasionally take sabbaticals from POA.
Click to expand...

Well, don't let us stop you!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Buggsy2 said:
And, as you can see, what's common is the handful of bigots on many forums. They gotta have a scapegoat class to explain their own failings.



Well, don't let us stop you!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
As if on cue...

Thanks for ever-so-perfectly illustrating my point.
 
Gerhardt said:
That's kind of harsh. Jay is a good guy. We disagree from time to time but he has always been kind and diplomatic.
Click to expand...

Jay IS a nice guy, except when he's not. Such as trashing the former owner of his motel, or some group of millions of people, or anybody he just doesn't like today.

Jay Honeck said:
Thanks for ever-so-perfectly illustrating my point.
Click to expand...

You were called out for saying the forums were good until government employees got on them. No, Jay, you made my point. You don't see it? Substitute "colored|Jewish|foreign|liberal|conservative|corporate types" for "government types". Well, others will get it anyway. I'll continue to call it out. Bigotry doesn't belong here.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Buggsy2 said:
Jay IS a nice guy, except when he's not. Such as trashing the former owner of his motel, or some group of millions of people, or anybody he just doesn't like today.



You were called out for saying the forums were good until government employees got on them. No, Jay, you made my point. You don't see it? Substitute "colored|Jewish|foreign|liberal|conservative|corporate types" for "government types". Well, others will get it anyway. I'll continue to call it out. Bigotry doesn't belong here.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
You DARE to compare my being against the never-ending expansion of government power with bigotry against minorities?

You have shown Ayn Rand to be right in a way that no one else could. Chilling.
 
Jay Honeck said:
3. Anonymous posters are anathema to every group. These are the biggest PIAs in any on-line group, because they instantly become internet tough guys.

What's funny is that, over time, the anonymous guys ultimately leak enough personal information so that we all figure out where and what they fly, and it becomes a trivial matter to determine their identities -- negating the whole "hide behind a fake screen name" thinking. But they persist, for reasons that escape me. (I have used my real name on every one of my thousands of posts, going back to the Usenet, pre-worldwide web days.)
Click to expand...
People know who I am, I'm sure it is not hard to figure out, but the idea is to be one step removed from a google search. Or at least be on the second page. An article addressing the topic http://harvardmagazine.com/2014/09/can-pseudonyms-make-better-online-citizens
Somewhere else I saw a study claiming real names do not create online civility.
 
ClimbnSink said:
People know who I am, I'm sure it is not hard to figure out, but the idea is to be one step removed from a google search. Or at least be on the second page. An article addressing the topic http://harvardmagazine.com/2014/09/can-pseudonyms-make-better-online-citizens
Somewhere else I saw a study claiming real names do not create online civility.
Click to expand...
In my experience, those who post behind a pseudonym are more likely to be rude. Obviously, that's not always true, but for some folks the veil of anonymity is like four shots of whiskey. They say things they would never otherwise say.
 
Jay Honeck said:
You DARE to compare my being against the never-ending expansion of government power with bigotry against minorities?

You have shown Ayn Rand to be right in a way that no one else could. Chilling.
Click to expand...

Even Alan Greenspan finally figured out, a couple decades too late, that Ayn Rand was a writer of fiction. She was wrong, he formed our economy on her principles, stopped the government from interfering with OTC derivatives, and allowed the economy to be swindled into collapse, all following Rand's logic. He later testified that he was wrong for this, that his perception of of how the world worked was flawed.
 
"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."
- Ayn Rand

As government workers have proliferated and spread into the upper reaches of economic life, to the point where it is rare to NOT find one in attendance at virtually any social gathering (including this one), criticism of government has been made to seem...impolite.

This is extraordinarily dangerous. The ability to freely and openly criticize government is a critical component in a democratic republic. Your response, and the astounding comparison to racism and bigotry, perfectly illustrate this phenomenon.

Like I said...it's chilling to see it in action here, a forum where it was once assumed that we were all members of the free market economy.
 
Last edited:
Jay Honeck said:
"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."
- Ayn Rand

As government workers have proliferated and spread into the upper reaches of economic life, to the point where it is rare to NOT find one in attendance at virtually any social gathering (including this one), criticism of government has been made to seem...impolite.

This is extraordinarily dangerous. The ability to freely and openly criticize government is a critical component in a democratic republic. Your response, and the astounding comparison to racism and bigotry, perfectly illustrate this phenomenon.

Like I said...it's chilling to see it in action here, a forum where it was once assumed that we were all members of the free market economy.
Click to expand...

I won't worry as long as people like The Westboro Baptist Church can protest Robin Williams funeral or a vets funeral without being taken out back and shot. We still enjoy an unprecedented level of freedom in this country.
 
Alexb2000 said:
I won't worry as long as people like The Westboro Baptist Church can protest Robin Williams funeral or a vets funeral without being taken out back and shot. We still enjoy an unprecedented level of freedom in this country.
Click to expand...
So far, free speech is mostly free. That is changing, too, however.

Until you own a small business, you have NO idea how labyrinthine our government rules, regulations, and laws have become. The level of corruption, meddling, and petty power-mongering amongst this ever-growing class of little Napoleons is simply impossible to imagine, until you run headlong into them.

I am currently on my fourth (and probably last) small business. I've owned businesses in Wisconsin, Iowa, and Texas. It's now to the point -- even in so-called "business-friendly" Texas -- where it is quite literally impossible to own and operate a business without violating some bureaucrat's notion of the law. You may think him wrong, and you are probably right, but it is on you (and your dime and time) to prove that you're right. Meanwhile, all the bureaucrat has to do is hold on for twenty years, and retire to the beach house.

It's at the point where I have actively discouraged my children from becoming entrepreneurs -- something I never thought I would do. It's simply not worth the headache and heartache of running a small business, only to be taxed and regulated to death.

The only thing that keeps me going is the fun of hanging out with y'all. :)
 
Buggsy2 said:
Jay has lifetime membership in the Teabagger Party. No point in trying to correct his follies.
Click to expand...

Buggsy2 said:
And, as you can see, what's common is the handful of bigots on many forums. They gotta have a scapegoat class to explain their own failings.

Well, don't let us stop you!
Click to expand...

Buggsy2 said:
Jay IS a nice guy, except when he's not. Such as trashing the former owner of his motel, or some group of millions of people, or anybody he just doesn't like today.

You were called out for saying the forums were good until government employees got on them. No, Jay, you made my point. You don't see it? Substitute "colored|Jewish|foreign|liberal|conservative|corporate types" for "government types". Well, others will get it anyway. I'll continue to call it out. Bigotry doesn't belong here.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...


It's amazing you assimilated all of this in just 22 days of membership on this forum.

:rolleyes:
 
...

Never Mind!
 
I subscribed, and must confess to enjoying the mag again.

Much of it is turbine stuff I don't care about, but for the pittance I paid, it's well worth the price.
 
Jay Honeck said:
I subscribed, and must confess to enjoying the mag again.

Much of it is turbine stuff I don't care about, but for the pittance I paid, it's well worth the price.
Click to expand...

And when you're done, it looks nice on the table in the lobby.
 
Funny, I actually gave in and paid the $8 for the 1-year subscription and the hat, last night.
Then tonight I come home, get the mail and lo and behold, I am starting at a "$50 credit adjustment" scam from none else but the Flying magazine. Pure coincidence that they sent the scam at this time. The "credit adjustment" was an adjustment to the "regular" (bulls*it) price of $60/year. (their webpage says $14/year) So now they offered me 1 year for $10 and a free hat. Plus $2 S&H. So total $12. Which is 50% over the online deal. $60/year my a**.
Aaaaah, I love the smell of bulls*it in the evening. :)
 
BigBadLou said:
[...] So now they offered me 1 year for $10 and a free hat. Plus $2 S&H. So total $12. Which is 50% over the online deal. [...]
Click to expand...

Are you sure? In the mail I received, they said that it will be $10 if I send them a check or $2 less if I order online - that's how I found the above website.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top