Flying Dogs for a Living

[Ryan F.]

So here is my own thread on quitting a cubicle (office) job and flying for a living. Probably just midlife crisis musings rather than reality.

NRG,

I've been asked for input on this decision point many times in the last twenty years. You're describing a scenario which has come up many times for many people. So, you're not alone.

What's difficult about advising people who are going through this sort of internal turbulence is that the many variables all have different weight for each individual.

That said, I generally advise the same thing, which has a little zing to it, but with a twist.

My advice is, stay out of professional flying.

Now, why would I say that? I love my career; it's been an amazing ride. I've experienced so much, so far beyond what is possible as a private pilot (which is how I started, like most of us.) I wouldn't trade it for anything. Even though "living the dream" is a punchline now in aviation, I really have lived a dream for twenty-something years. I've traveled the world. I've seen the Aurora Borealis over the North Atlantic. I've set a World Speed Record. I've tasted almost every flavor of aviation there is, from teaching aerobatics to initial operating experience for crews new to oceanic ops. There have been ups, there have been downs, there have been absolutely devastating moments, there have been unbelievable highs. I feel sorry for the folks who live most of their lives in a "cube." I can't even imagine that. But...

Don't do it.

The reason I say that is, the people who are really successful in aviation -- I mean successful, as in they love what they do, their careers advance well, they find quality operations with which to partner up -- can't be kept away. Their passion and drive to do it exceeds any naysaying. So they don't heed my advice. They go for it anyway. And usually, they're successful.

If you're on the fence and you're not sure if flying for bucks is for you, it probably isn't. Even though the industry is desperate for pilots, it still eats up and spits out a fair number of people who don't quite realize what they're signing up for. In 2002 I was a flight instructor. I think of that class of fresh-faced instructors and of those with whom I've stayed in touch with, the majority are not in aviation anymore. Not because they weren't great at what they did; but because their "real lives" didn't involve being absent for a significant portion of it.

Now, flying dogs is its own thing. I don't know what's involved in that. Maybe you're home every night. But the impact of aviation on family life is always severe; some would say traumatic. For 7 years I ran a small flight department, and I missed a lot of my kids' lives. I flew 700-850 hours per year on average and I spent at least 200 nights away from home. I missed kids' birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas, Thanksgiving. I missed 52 out of 52 weekends per year as the guy I worked for always flew over the weekend. We'd fly night transcons multiple times per week. Approaches down to minimums at 0500 in the morning... it was utterly exhausting. Life is good now, because I work for a world-class operation now which treats its pilots well. But it took a long time to matriculate to having a good schedule, being home most of the time, and being able to say "Yeah, I'll be there on Friday night for that get-together with friends" and actually being there, instead of consistently having to bow out at the last minute.

If you enjoy aviation, that's one thing. If you're fascinated by aviation, can't stop thinking or talking about it, and the desire to fly never really goes away, you may be on to something. If you want to consistently expand your horizons, pick up new skills or ratings, keep learning all the time, that's also a good sign. But if it's just a "fun thing," an escape from real life... leave it that way. There's a lot to say for flying when and where YOU want to fly. If that is satisfying in its own right, leave it that way and stay on your career path.

Flying costs a fortune to get into and pays chump change for the first 5-10 years of one's career. That's variable, of course, but generally true. Certainly if you're making six figures at your office job, it is going to take at least that amount of time to reach the same amount in cockpit, maybe longer... maybe never. Certainly there are folks who graduate to a certain level and don't move beyond that point, either by choice or by circumstances.

It's a volatile industry. Very difficult to hang your hat in one place and stay there the whole time.

So again, I say, don't do it. Because if this really is right for you, you're not going to listen to me anyway.

Best of luck,

 

[Lachlan]

I think you should just buy a fun airplane, get 4-5 great dogs (I recommend a nice selection of Huskies and Malamutes,) load them into the airplane, and fly them all over the place every day. Bonus: you get to keep the dogs you fly each day, and you can always stay within your 3 hr radius. That’s what I would do, except it would be SIX dogs.

 

[Ken Ibold]

I think you should just buy a fun airplane, get 4-5 great dogs (I recommend a nice selection of Huskies and Malamutes,) load them into the airplane, and fly them all over the place every day. Bonus: you get to keep the dogs you fly each day, and you can always stay within your 3 hr radius. That’s what I would do, except it would be SIX dogs.

Good advice, except about the breed.

 

[Juliet Hotel]

Certainly a fear of mine. But then I see people like @LDJones who I think are enjoying the change and @Luigi who admonishes to not live life without regrets. The latter is why I bought a plane 2 years ago and haven’t regretted a day of it.

Just make sure you know what you're getting into. Some kinds of flying gigs are probably great. But most of the gigs I saw were a lifestyle closer to that of a touring musician.

Which again, sounds great on the surface until you realize the reality of it. For a touring musician, being a musician and playing music is what you do. That's the reason you got into the biz. But you only get do that for 2 hours a day. You're still at work the other 22 hours of everyday but those hours are about and boring and mundane as you can imagine. Lots of flying jobs are exactly the same. About 2 or 3 hours of doing what you got into the biz to do surrounded by hours of being tied up at work not doing what you got into the biz to do.

I think I may be one of those that could fly for a living and not have it feel like a job.

I guarantee it won't feel like a job. The first year. The first year will be great. You'll wonder why you never did it sooner and you'll marvel at your paycheck and you'll say I can't believe I fly airplanes for my job and they actually pay me this much for it. By the second or their year? Reality starts to set in a bit and you'll find yourself knowing more about daytime TV and FBO recliners than you ever thought you would. And you'll jump to your feet when a G5 arrives at the FBO because they always have left over catering that's usually pretty good. And you'll eagerly eat someone else's table scraps because it'll keep you out of the drive through and keep some money in your wallet. And while you're munching on those cold leftovers and thinking about the money in your wallet you just might think to yourself I can't believe I fly airplanes for my job and they actually pay me this much to do it. But this time, the emphasis will on a different words in that sentence than the first time you thought it.

Or maybe that won't happen. But I do find it concerning that someone who is citing at least in part not having enough time to spend with family as a reason for wanting to switch careers is considering going into a field that generally requires 100% travel and depending on the job, can keep you away from home for weeks at a stretch. Especially at the lower end of the ladder. Yep there are tons of airline guys that are home 15 days a month. But there are also lots who are home 5 days a month.

Since you're older and have a family, I'm going to guess that up and moving across the country every couple of years isn't something you're going to want to do. Its one thing to do that when you're young and single but another thing entirely when you've got family and a mortgage. So you might live in the midwest but if your lane flys out of Portland, then some of those 10 days off you get every month now become travel days. Which means you're at work but you're not working and you're not spending that time with the family and you're definitely not getting paid.

But that's airline. Maybe you won't do that. Maybe you'll do charter or better yet corporate. No need to spend your days off traveling then because you'll be based within driving distance of work guaranteed. Which of course means that when its time to upgrade jobs or worse, when your job goes away and its time to find another, your choices are limit your options to whoever happens to operate within driving distance of where you live or look everywhere and then sell the house and move to where ever the next job happens to be.

Like I was getting at above, lots of people do it and love it. But even more do it and hate it because they only thought about the flying and never stopped to consider everything else that goes along with it. Choose carefully.

 

[Everskyward]

Somehwat boggles my mind too. Got any other ideas to build consistent time besides CFIing?

If you have the money saved to get to 1500 hours flying Pilots and Paws, why don't you simply fly for 1500 hours to destinations of your choice? You would get to 1500 hours faster. Or does the charitable deduction factor into it? Of course, flying for an organization would give you a flavor of what it's like to fly for work, since you are flying on their schedule to places they determine. I flew for a living almost all of my adult life. While I found it interesting, there's no doubt it was a job. As long as I had to make a living, that was a good way of doing it, but since I left, I haven't had any desire to go back to it. Just one person's viewpoint.

 

[Lachlan]

Good advice, except about the breed.

Great dogs, but they don’t know how to pronounce their names correctly, either. Sa-MOY-ed? Sammy-ed? No one knows, because the dogs speak mostly in vowels. Lots of ohs and woooooos. Not many emms.

 

[kayoh190]

If you're on the fence and you're not sure if flying for bucks is for you, it probably isn't.

<snip>

So again, I say, don't do it. Because if this really is right for you, you're not going to listen to me anyway.

This, this, this, and this. Great friggin’ post, Ryan. I cut it down so my quote would be more manageable, but the entire thing is on point and it were up to me I’d make it a sticky.

 

[wayne]

Somehwat boggles my mind too. Got any other ideas to build consistent time besides CFIing?

Angel Flight.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

If you have the money saved to get to 1500 hours flying Pilots and Paws, why don't you simply fly for 1500 hours to destinations of your choice? You would get to 1500 hours faster. Or does the charitable deduction factor into it? Of course, flying for an organization would give you a flavor of what it's like to fly for work, since you are flying on their schedule to places they determine. I flew for a living almost all of my adult life. While I found it interesting, there's no doubt it was a job. As long as I had to make a living, that was a good way of doing it, but since I left, I haven't had any desire to go back to it. Just one person's viewpoint.

Mainly because I love helping people and it helps me pick destinations I would never think of. PnP doesn’t choose the schedule for you. You see what needs to be transported and arrange it with the rescues. Really it would end up a mix of both PnP and where I would want to go. I have people to visit across the country so I can mix in dog flights with personal flights.

 

[iamtheari]

Good advice, except about the breed.

Ken is right. Sammies love flying.

 

[Ryan F.]

Mainly because I love helping people and it helps me pick destinations I would never think of. PnP doesn’t choose the schedule for you. You see what needs to be transported and arrange it with the rescues. Really it would end up a mix of both PnP and where I would want to go. I have people to visit across the country so I can mix in dog flights with personal flights.

I've flown a couple of rescue dogs, a LONG time ago... great experience.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

I think you should just buy a fun airplane, get 4-5 great dogs (I recommend a nice selection of Huskies and Malamutes,) load them into the airplane, and fly them all over the place every day. Bonus: you get to keep the dogs you fly each day, and you can always stay within your 3 hr radius. That’s what I would do, except it would be SIX dogs.

I had a Malamute, and when he blew his coat there was about six cats worth of fur hiding in corners. I'd be afraid it would foul the flight controls!

 

[Skyrys62]

Wouldn't really call the desire to get away from work, try something new, have some adventure, etc. a midlife crisis. More likely human nature, and burnout.
A lot of us can relate ha ha.

If you make really good money, is there an option of reducing your hours instead of quitting?

Maybe that's a balance for now to help until you get other things out of the way.
Gets you out of the cubicle some, and in the air more.
Can still build some hours while getting IFR, buy a faster plane (which will also take some time if done right), take some friends/family on a few PnP missions......then re-assess next year.

30 hours a week is probably hard with weather, especially no IFR rating or tks/fiki.

 

[iamtheari]

Wouldn't really call the desire to get away from work, try something new, have some adventure, etc. a midlife crisis. More likely human nature, and burnout.
A lot of us can relate ha ha.

Sometimes people tell me they want to go to law school because their career isn’t fulfilling. I just laugh. Fulfillment is what you get from the life you live, not the job you have. The job is mostly there to turn what you are good at into money that you can spend chasing fulfillment outside of work. It helps to be passionate about your career. You would have a hard time prying me out of my work. But it’s still work and I come home wanting to fly or play guitar, not argue about precedent.

The advice above about passion is great advice for any career path. Life is just a bit pyramid scheme. For every successful person in any career, there are thousands who are at the bottom of the pyramid. It’s true if commercial pilot’s, lawyers, musicians, chefs, and everyone else. And the way airline seniority works, you just aren’t going to be flying that LA to Paris run unless your only passion in life is flying. And if it is, what are you doing counting beans in the first place?

 

[hindsight2020]

But the impact of aviation on family life is always severe; some would say traumatic. For 7 years I ran a small flight department, and I missed a lot of my kids' lives. I flew 700-850 hours per year on average and I spent at least 200 nights away from home. I missed kids' birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas, Thanksgiving. I missed 52 out of 52 weekends per year as the guy I worked for always flew over the weekend.

Wow. Seems people skipped over this tid bit in your post. I'm not trying to front you, but this caught my eye big time. You never addressed it beyond saying "things are good now". Do you regret having made such a trade with your home life? Did your wife sign up willingly for this deal (aka was she a [willing] homemaker?) or was it a challenge? To be frank with you, you were gone those 7 years longer than most in the deployed military.

I transitioned into training command not for family reasons, but I certainly stayed there once I established a family. Same for the airline job. I bypassed the airline track during college citing concerns over job stability (and I was right, the Lost Decade was in full swing when I graduated college) but again, stayed away over the schedule once I established a family.

I can tell you categorically, if that was the absence required of me in order to remain employed as a paid pilot with children, I'd hang it up and not blink once. I have never viewed myself as someone incapable of deriving a lucrative living doing something other than flying. I have two technical degrees to prove that.

That part of your post deserves a lot of credit, because I think it's often glossed over like a Disney movie ending, and nobody wants to talk about how one's kids may or may not see you as a formative part of their lives in hindsight because you simply weren't there. I'm not willing to take that chance. That outcome would be a tragedy in my life; one regret I couldn't carry to the end of my days like I can others (like my degree choices, or not getting to fly a fighter). I guess I have a bigger sensitivity towards the perils of that outcome with my child than most in my career.

The other thing is, which is my personal bias and I admit it, is that I believe this career to rely a lot on stay at home wives.. and I don't have one, nor want one. So a lot of the aviation advice is thrown in with the assumption that a woman will side with the man's career and not exercise her own discretion in life. Very little is said about households where that's not gonna fly (pun intended).

At any rate, kudos for admitting such an absence from your kids life. It has certainly re-affirmed that for me at least, I am not willing to do that. The day I'm forced to do it, I'll quit flying for money.

P.S. I have several close people I consider family, in civil aviation who are not hybrid military or airlines. I'm not a stranger to part135 part 91 turbine realities. They were actually able to retain a semblance of a family life while the kids were in the house. They just left a lot of career money on the table. I only bring that up to suggest the career is not universally horrible on the family separation front, but it requires paycuts, often non-starters of a paycut. I digress.

 

[Velocity173]

Believe in something. Even if it means sacrificing everything. Just do it.

Too soon?

 

[hindsight2020]

If you make really good money, is there an option of reducing your hours instead of quitting?

LOL This is Calvinist America. Of course the answer is No, you don't have that flexibility in the USA. So much for the land of the "free"....yeah, "Free" to starve if you don't like workaholic ethics. I wasn't raised in the CONUS; I have it on good authority many parts of the world do not believe in Calvinism, and work life is much less misopedic as a result. "99 problems" and all that jazz, but that's not one of them in the rest of the civilized world like it is here. A part of our culture I truly despise.

 

[Ryan F.]

Wow. Seems people skipped over this tid bit in your post.

I hear you. It wasn't always awful, but frequently was. 200 nights a year is a lot... but the rest of those days, I was home. That's more time at home than most people with a "real" career get with their kids, particularly considering the typical work week of a salaried executive or person in a leadership position. The worst part was just the uncertainty of when I would be home. I wasn't excluded from their lives, but the quality of the time was variable. Especially when I came home exhausted from a trip. That experience actually started much more nicely than it ended... one of those "frog in slowly boiling water" sort of scenarios.

No two ways about it, aviation is, more often than not, hard on a family. Wives, kids, all of us.

 

[Juliet Hotel]

Ramp neighbor has a son who got his Instrument, Commercial, and Multi, 400 or so hours, currently flying right seat in a jet for some 135 operator, lives where he wants, gets an airline ticket to wherever the flying might be.

I guessing he flys for a large corporate 135 operator. Netjets or the like. I doubt this would be an option working for most smaller 135's where they want you to live within 45 minute drive of the airport and your schedule is 'keep your phone on you and sleep with it on the nightstand'.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

LOL This is Calvinist America. Of course the answer is No, you don't have that flexibility in the USA. So much for the land of the "free"....yeah, "Free" to starve if you don't like workaholic ethics. I wasn't raised in the CONUS; I have it on good authority many parts of the world do not believe in Calvinism, and work life is much less misopedic as a result. "99 problems" and all that jazz, but that's not one of them in the rest of the civilized world like it is here. A part of our culture I truly despise.

What he said. To reduce my hours I would have to find a new company.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

I believe this career to rely a lot on stay at home wives.

I have one.

 

[Skyrys62]

What he said. To reduce my hours I would have to find a new company.

Only asking out of curiosity...
But they would let you quit and come back in a year without filling your position?

 

[TCABM]

...

Why something cheaper than an A36?...

First and foremost is getting the most bang for your buck. For the differential between a reliable A36 and a reliable M20F (or equivalent) you could put a whole lot of gallons of gas in the plane for a year.

You can also use the savings to offset the IFR and CSEL upgrade.

Or buy a good 310 and do all the above in a twin.

If the goal is pro flying, I would guess there’s going to be a question on the quality of your 1500 hrs. Since you’re not demonstrating proficiency thru instruction, how do you differentiate yourself?

Several hundred hours of piston twin flying in the system with legs are several hundred miles long and you’ve collected a bagful of feeder airport approaches in actual would be more demonstrative of your capability in my opinion.

And give you a ton of stories to tell that set you apart from all the CFIs.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Only asking out of curiosity...
But they would let you quit and come back in a year without filling your position?

Not necessarily. But when you know most of the people at the top of the food chain it becomes a bigger possibility. It is certainly a risk.

 

[DavidWhite]

There’s no expectation of being home every night. I guess trading the 12 hour days for piloting is just a different type of 60 hour weeks. I would guess that, ignoring sleep time, professional pilots are home way more than I am.

60 hour weeks? I remember my first part time flying job!

 

[wayne]

60 hour weeks? I remember my first part time flying job!

Just a casual week of software development during the dotcom boom in the 90's. I was working as a contractor and would typically take four weeks of vacation, plus holidays, and some days with the kids and still book 2600+ hours in a year. Some times I'd get a contract with a tight budget and could only work 40 hrs/wk. Felt like I was on a paid vacation.

One July I worked every day in the month except two Sundays, and that included working on the Fourth of July after running the Peachtree Road Race (10K) earlier that morning. I was making noticeably more than a early-career pilot though. Yeah, that was good Christmas that year.

 

[Ted]

No offense to Ted or Pilots-N-Paws, but I've always wondered about the pet flying programs. I just imagine for every Shih Tzu heading north, there is probably another heading south. Of course I've thought the same thing when I see someone on the west coast buying a Cessna 152 on the East Coast looking for a ferry pilot. You mean you couldn't find a 152 a little closer to home?

Don't mind me, just the voices in my head...back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

I would've thought that 10 years ago when I started flying dogs. And to be clear, some of the transports are just "I fell in love with fluffy but fluffy is 3 states away!" That's a common PnP style run, basically helping individual pets get to their forever home, wherever it may be.

The large scale transports like what I do and what Wings of Rescue do (we partner on a good number of trips these days) as well as some other PnP trips are addressing the large scale overpopulation epidemic in the United States, which is regional. I am always empty heading south and always full going north. The issue is that people in the South don't spay and neuter their pets much, and so you have a number of unwanted litters, strays, etc. Then in the north people mostly do spay and neuter, you don't have stray populations, etc. The cat population isn't in very good control much of anywhere, so cat transports are usually special cases (for example the 52 cats I flew after the Joplin tornado). The dog population, though, is very bipolar and there's not an even supply of animals as most people think all over.

Most of what we fly are mutts, and most are puppies. The occasional senior dog and a good number of adults mixed in. It depends. But it is very much one direction. I've had a number of people suggest that I try to get a cargo 135 together so I can not be empty on the southern routes. Problem is finding someone who's fine with unreliable, on my schedule freight transport, not to mention putting a 135 together is a real pain and adds a lot of expense. Just doesn't make much sense.

 

[asicer]

If you want to get out of the cubicle and get your aviation on, would being a professional drone pilot scratch that itch?

 

[midwestpa24]

I would've thought that 10 years ago when I started flying dogs. And to be clear, some of the transports are just "I fell in love with fluffy but fluffy is 3 states away!" That's a common PnP style run, basically helping individual pets get to their forever home, wherever it may be.

The large scale transports like what I do and what Wings of Rescue do (we partner on a good number of trips these days) as well as some other PnP trips are addressing the large scale overpopulation epidemic in the United States, which is regional. I am always empty heading south and always full going north. The issue is that people in the South don't spay and neuter their pets much, and so you have a number of unwanted litters, strays, etc. Then in the north people mostly do spay and neuter, you don't have stray populations, etc. The cat population isn't in very good control much of anywhere, so cat transports are usually special cases (for example the 52 cats I flew after the Joplin tornado). The dog population, though, is very bipolar and there's not an even supply of animals as most people think all over.

Most of what we fly are mutts, and most are puppies. The occasional senior dog and a good number of adults mixed in. It depends. But it is very much one direction. I've had a number of people suggest that I try to get a cargo 135 together so I can not be empty on the southern routes. Problem is finding someone who's fine with unreliable, on my schedule freight transport, not to mention putting a 135 together is a real pain and adds a lot of expense. Just doesn't make much sense.

Thanks for educating me. Honestly I guess I never thought of that and assumed the overpopulation issue was more evenly distributed. I have always been impressed with your dedication to the cause.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

This is Calvinist America.......many parts of the world do not believe in Calvinism

not nitpicking. Just wanted to learn about this. I thought Calvinism was a branch of Protestantism? Is that what you meant? Or is it an economic theory (I could not find one, except for Calvin's stance on money/usury)
PM me if preferred.

 

[BrianNC]

If you want to get out of the cubicle and get your aviation on, would being a professional drone pilot scratch that itch?

Flying a drone over flying an airplane would personally never scratch my aviation itch. Two different worlds to me.

 

[BrianNC]

not nitpicking. Just wanted to learn about this. I thought Calvinism was a branch of Protestantism? Is that what you meant? Or is it an economic theory (I could not find one, except for Calvin's stance on money/usury)
PM me if preferred.

I don’t get that association either.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

not nitpicking. Just wanted to learn about this. I thought Calvinism was a branch of Protestantism? Is that what you meant? Or is it an economic theory (I could not find one, except for Calvin's stance on money/usury)
PM me if preferred.

Look up Max Weber's hypothesis on workaholism and he connects it to Calvinism. I think that is where @hindsight2020 is coming from.

 

[SkyDog58]

not nitpicking. Just wanted to learn about this. I thought Calvinism was a branch of Protestantism? Is that what you meant? Or is it an economic theory (I could not find one, except for Calvin's stance on money/usury)
PM me if preferred.

Calvinist America, in one thousand words or one picture.



You are welcome.

 

[Ted]

Thanks for educating me. Honestly I guess I never thought of that and assumed the overpopulation issue was more evenly distributed. I have always been impressed with your dedication to the cause.

View attachment 67035

Appreciate it.

Education on the issue is a cornerstone of what we do as well. I think every single TV/radio/newspaper/magazine interview I've done I've talked about why the need exists, and put on my Bob Barker "Remember, have your pets spayed or neutered!" speech. Like I said, prior to me starting this 10 years ago, I had no idea, and I suspect that 90+% of people don't know.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Oh, you actually mean CALVIN!

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

found this:
Direct PDF DL caution
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...IMENSIONS-AS-PREDICTORS-OF-WORK-ADDICTION.pdf

 

[hindsight2020]

Look up Max Weber's hypothesis on workaholism and he connects it to Calvinism. I think that is where @hindsight2020 is coming from.

Correct. I'm not so interested in the religious angle and/or Protestant etymology (for those who get all sensitive if their religion is brought up in any critical context). I'm just merely interested in the cultural byproduct that it created on our work dynamics, which remain to today.

 

[CC268]

I have to admit - sometimes I wonder how anyone ends up in an aviation career (it has a horrible reputation).

 

[wayne]

I have to admit - sometimes I wonder how anyone ends up in an aviation career (it has a horrible reputation).

Denial. "It can't be that bad. They have shiny jets!"