Flight Following

[DDDowney]

New member here. The thing said I could not search yet so I thought I would ask. I have been out of flying for several years and getting back into it. I think maybe one more trip and I can solo. My question is about flight following. I'm sure I have a brain fart going but I have been unable to learn through my studies who I am suppose to call to request FF. so for example I would want to pick it up over M21 and go direct to MRC. I have figured out on an IFR chart that Memphis is the area that it is in. I have also been told to call Fort Campbell on 118.1. I cannot seem to find out which one is correct, if both are, if Nashville may be right. I don't know if Memphis can hear me and respond that far away?
I have the pilot manual, and IFR one, and a book called Say again please. some how I cannot connect the dots. So if someone could learn me this I would be thankful.

David

 

[dmspilot]

Check the Chart Supplement, previously known as Airport/Facility Directory. You can find online:

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/dafd/

Search for M21 and you'll get this page:

https://aeronav.faa.gov/afd/25jan2024/se_275_25JAN2024.pdf

I would use 118.1

 

[DDDowney]

Check the Chart Supplement, previously known as Airport/Facility Directory. You can find online:

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/dafd/

Search for M21 and you'll get this page:

https://aeronav.faa.gov/afd/25jan2024/se_275_25JAN2024.pdf

I would use 118.1

View attachment 125437

Thanks, I had ran across that page on skyvector, and I use to have some of those green books. So I just call the nearest facility that has APP/DEP? That is easy enough to find. I think that all the reading some of which says to call an ARTCC is confusing me. I grew up at a corn patch field and we didn't "have" to always be on the radio. I have been to several class D and a couple of class C airports always VFR all several years ago. I never used FF but plan to now. Maybe older and wiser, or maybe just older.
Anyhow, thank you for taking time to help me. Have a good day.

 

[dmspilot]

So I just call the nearest facility that has APP/DEP?

Just look at the frequencies for your departure airport (or another airport along the route, if you do not call soon after takeoff). There will always be an approach/departure frequency, which may be a dedicated Approach/Departure (TRACON) facility or it may be a Center (ARTCC).

For example, M20 lists Indy Center for its approach/departure. KY8 lists Evansville App/Dep during certain hours and Indy Center when they are closed.

If for some reason the frequency you try is not the right one, the controller will help you out. There can sometimes be a little bit of trial and error if you're not familiar with an area.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Thanks, I had ran across that page on skyvector, and I use to have some of those green books. So I just call the nearest facility that has APP/DEP? That is easy enough to find. I think that all the reading some of which says to call an ARTCC is confusing me. I grew up at a corn patch field and we didn't "have" to always be on the radio. I have been to several class D and a couple of class C airports always VFR all several years ago. I never used FF but plan to now. Maybe older and wiser, or maybe just older.
Anyhow, thank you for taking time to help me. Have a good day.

Still the same. If Center is controlling arrivals and departures, the CS will give you the Center frequency.

 

[DDDowney]

Hey thanks guys this gets me heading in the correct direction. I get confused with all the terms sometimes. I am re reading thru the different centers, fss, type of facilities and what they do to get more details.

 

[mandm]

FSS I think is for weather reports? Sometimes I’m not sure because I never/rarely use them. Maybe you can activate flight plans with them without flight following, weird right lol. Probably for those flights you want someone to be looking for you but you don’t want to be listening for changing frequencies and deviations for traffic and you want to listen to some good music.

You can call approach for any flight following or flight plans, you can also ask anyone for the correct frequency. It’s ok to not know. You’ll learn. Better to be in this situation in good weather vs poor wx.

On the ground you can ask ground for flight following or whatever you want as well via ground frequency or clearance delivery frequency.

In foreflight, click on any airport nearby, click info, then the approach frequency will be listed (scroll down). Sometimes more than one so you might have to try more than one. Usually it is directional based upon a major airport.

All else fails, go on the emergency frequency 121.5 and say your call sign and ask for assistance finding a frequency and your location. Sometimes I monitor guard (121.5), but it’s full of cats meowing, kind of freaks out my passengers a little lol. I’m sure someone would appreciate helping or a legitimate use of the frequency vs the cat calls. I’m going to try to use 121.5 more instead of being afraid of it, for next time even for weather updates in remote areas when commercial traffic is above, hoping they will pull out their foreflight to check the weather at my destination since they likely have updated records whereas my adsb was not providing wx updates due to the remoteness of my flight.

 

[dbahn]

I cannot seem to find out which one is correct, if both are, if Nashville may be right.

Don't worry. Sometimes ATC doesn't even know. When you call, give them as accurate a position as you can, and they'll have you switch to the appropriate frequency. Just be ready to write it down or commit it to short term memory.

Lots of software (e.g. Foreflight, Garmin, etc.) that includes GPS will have a "Nearest" function, with a subset of "Frequencies", and I just pick the first one on that list, which is the wrong one about half of the time but that's never a problem, as I mentioned above.

Generally speaking, if you're close to the airport the city name is who you'll be talking to, e.g. Nashville. In between city airfields you'll be switched to a "center", e.g. Memphis. Here's a map of the centers' coverage areas.

 

[SFDukie]

@mandm gives excellent advice- just want to highlight a point he made- at a towered field, you can often coordinate FF by simply asking, and they’ll give you a transponder code and next frequency on the ground (oversimplifying, this depends on Towers radar tie ins)
Even if unable, they’ll provide the center frequency to use when airborne, in my experience.

Can also use the frequencies given to contact near Charlies and Brovos-

 

[AV8R_87]

If the field has an instrument approach (right click on the field in skyvector, see image below) the approach plate will show the frequency. That will usually be the best to ask for FF.

 

[Shawn]

For FF your are either gonna be talking to TRACON (which is App/Dep surrounding C and B airspace up to around 10,000 -ish) or Center (which is all the rest of the airspace in between and above D/C/B and TRACON airspace)

One of the challenges is that none of the actual frequencies for any given sector are published anywhere other than the airport info so there are multiple paths when the correct frequency for your position is unknown:

-At a Towered airport? I ALWAYS ask for FF on the ground...even if they are unable to coordinate they will give ya the correct frequency once airborne and 9 times outta 10 give me an early "frequency change approved" to call them up as soon as I am wheels up.

-In the air? Chart supplement or IFR plate of the nearest airport which will have a App/Dep/Center frequency listed...call them up and if not correct they will point ya in the right direction.

-Garmin 430s or better and Foreflight also both have a "nearest" frequencies page.

-Sectionals have Approach frequencies listed right on the charts around C and B airports.

-IFR Charts have Center frequencies...call up the closest.

-I have had FSS give me the correct frequency.

You don't need to be 100% correct on the initial call up...if you reach anyone they will ultimately get ya to the right controller.

 

[DDDowney]

Thanks for all the help I think that within a couple of calls to a nearby approach that I could find it. I have been looking at the articles mentioned and have learned where to find them. I don't understand it all but maybe enough.
I think that I see why instructors may not want to spend a lot of time on FF as it has a little bit of lining up the moon and stars element to it. But I plan to use it which ever method that has been mentioned above gets me connected. I was kind of afraid that if I called the wrong person or mis said a word that I might get in trouble with someone. I feel sure that in my area there will be a method that I gravitate to that works most time.
You guys are most helpful and have shone that you want others to succeed and I thank you again for that. I'll keep studying as there are many more subjects to cover. So expect more dumb questions as I progress.

David

 

[midlifeflyer]

I think that I see why instructors may not want to spend a lot of time on FF as it has a little bit of lining up the moon and stars element to it.

There are only a very few reasons for an instructor not to spend time on it. From best reason to worst reason:

1. You are not yet doing cross countries.​

2. You have done one dual cross country and your instructor decided to wait for the next one before adding the ATC communication task​

3. Your CFI doesn't know how.​

​

There is no "lining up the moon and stars" involved. And the one and only obstacle is a phobia about talking to controllers.

1. You call a reasonable frequency for the location where you are asking. That's not as complicated as some are making it seem. Actually it's simple.​

a. On the ground, Class D, ask Ground. At some Ds, they'll arrange it. At others they won't but will tell you whom to call.​

b. On the ground, Class C and B. They'll ask you where you are going and always arrange it for you.​

c. On the ground, nontowered. Same as in the air. If its you home base, once you know the frequency, you'll aways use it.​

d. In the air it's the one in the Chart Supplement for a nearby airport. If you are using an EFB, it's on the airport page under "frequencies." In the air near a Class C or B, you don't even have to go that far. It's printed on the sectional chart.​

2. You call the frequency and identify yourself.​

3. Once thy ask what you want, you say, "I'd like Flight Following to [destination] at [altitude] in a [type aircraft]."​

This is literally one of those things that people agonize over even though it's sooooo incredibly simple. Do it once, and you'll be a pro. Do it twice and you'll be an expert.

 

[dbahn]

This is literally one of those things that people agonize over even though it's sooooo incredibly simple. Do it once, and you'll be a pro. Do it twice and you'll be an expert.

I agree completely. I find that on most any kind of cross country flight I'm either flying through busy airspace or semi-wilderness terrain. FF is a huge asset in both of those. In busy airspace you will be notified of aircraft you can't see before you even could see them. In the airspace that isn't busy, it's a simple and easy substitute for filing a VFR flight plan, which from a practical standpoint is nearly nearly useless with respect to search and rescue. On FF just notifying ATC that you have a problem prompts them to monitor the rest of your flight with search and rescue in mind, even if you won't need it. ADS-b is helpful, but I actually think I find FF just a bit more reliable.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I agree completely. I find that on most any kind of cross country flight I'm either flying through busy airspace or semi-wilderness terrain. FF is a huge asset in both of those. In busy airspace you will be notified of aircraft you can't see before you even could see them. In the airspace that isn't busy, it's a simple and easy substitute for filing a VFR flight plan, which from a practical standpoint is nearly nearly useless with respect to search and rescue. On FF just notifying ATC that you have a problem prompts them to monitor the rest of your flight with search and rescue in mind, even if you won't need it. ADS-b is helpful, but I actually think I find FF just a bit more reliable.

On the Flight Plan piece, it was something we used flying in the Rockies when we were often below radar contact. Even then, it might be at least as useful to leave an itinerary with someone reliable together with instructions on whom to call if not heard from within a certain amount of time. Learned that one from Canada where the rule require VFR flight more than 25 NM from base to either file a VFR flight plan or leave a flight itinerary with a "responsible person."

My most interesting flight following experience was in this area.

The magenta route is between COE (Coeur d'Alene, ID) and CAG (Craig, CO). The VOR at the bottom is LKT. Seattle Center provided flight following, but the area is (or at the time was) below radar for the altitude I was flying. Instead of letting me go, Seattle asked me for position reports, the last of which was to report 20 NW of LKT. When I reported there, Seattle told me they would lose comm with me but to keep my squawk code and contact Salt Lake Center about 20 southeast of LKT. The handoff was flawless.

What fabulous service!

 

[SFDukie]

I was kind of afraid that if I called the wrong person or mis said a word that I might get in trouble with someone...
You guys are most helpful and have shone that you want others to succeed and I thank you again for that. I'll keep studying as there are many more subjects to cover. So expect more dumb questions as I progress.

David

Sure, in busy airspace, you may get an "unable", "stand by" or the like.

But IME, ATC often "bends over backwards" to help pilots hook up with FF. Especially in more "worrisome terrain" or traffic situations. Unless you're being a complete jerk, and disregard ATC explicit instrutions, you won't "get in trouble".

That said, I have gotten a tiny bit of attitude from SoCal ATC when I've asked what the controller deemed a stupid question. My ego can handle that

 

[tsts4]

it's a simple and easy substitute for filing a VFR flight plan, which from a practical standpoint is nearly nearly useless with respect to search and rescue.

I would say they are complimentary but one isn’t truly a substitute for the other as they don’t have the same primary purpose. Sure if you happen to be talking to ATC when something happens then of course it‘s exponentially better than someone who has only filed a VFR flight plan or no plan at all. Conversely, getting a VFR flight plan is always available and not subject to workloads other variables that might preclude getting or keeping FF for the whole flight.

 

[dbahn]

Of course, you can always depart hoping for flight following and if they're too busy you can file with FSS en route. But what always bothered me is that the last time I looked the average time to locate a downed aircraft using flight following was two weeks. Now admittedly that includes some long term outliers but still, it's not very efficient means of being located after an emergency, because the search area is typically huge and also depends on position reports to be reduced in size.

The nice thing about FF is that you are typically always already on a useful frequency and your position is already known without you doing anything except periodic frequency changes.

 

[asicer]

But what always bothered me is that the last time I looked the average time to locate a downed aircraft using flight following was two weeks. Now admittedly that includes some long term outliers but still, it's not very efficient means of being located after an emergency, because the search area is typically huge and also depends on position reports to be reduced in size.

Was this two week number before the advent of cell phones and ADSB-Out? I'd imagine the lag might have improved quite a bit since then.

 

[dbahn]

Was this two week number before the advent of cell phones and ADSB-Out? I'd imagine the lag might have improved quite a bit since then.

It's certainly not recent data. I don't know when it was compiled (and I also imagine that the lag time is "better" now) but even if it's been cut in half that's still a long time to be waiting to be found.

And a cell phone becomes a big distraction in flight when you're handling an emergency, such as an engine failure. You have to find it, look at it, dial a correct number, hope you're in reception area, then wait while someone (hopefully) answers your call. Compare that to pushing a PTT button while looking at more important things like checklists, engine instruments and landing areas.

 

[Shawn]

I was kind of afraid that if I called the wrong person or mis said a word that I might get in trouble with someone.

While I throughly enjoy the mastery of the jargon and unpacking what they are saying and why over coms with ATC while flying...NEVER be afraid to use plain 'ol English on radio to say what you need or if you don't explicitly understand. While ATC may often rattle off like an auctioneer to a veteran jet jockey...they will almost always take an extra beat if you let them know.

Remember...most of the time they WANT to be talking to you on FF so they know your intentions when juggling all the other traffic...so if you approach it as you are doing THEM a favor by being on FF it changes the dynamics a bit. They are there to help.

 

[midlifeflyer]

It's certainly not recent data. I don't know when it was compiled (and I also imagine that the lag time is "better" now) but even if it's been cut in half that's still a long time to be waiting to be found.

And a cell phone becomes a big distraction in flight when you're handling an emergency, such as an engine failure. You have to find it, look at it, dial a correct number, hope you're in reception area, then wait while someone (hopefully) answers your call. Compare that to pushing a PTT button while looking at more important things like checklists, engine instruments and landing areas.

That particular chamber of horrors pretty much assumes solo flight. And the interesting thing about cell phones is that text uses so little bandwidth that there have apparently been cases of people in very remote areas reaching someone.

But there are downsides to every method.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I was kind of afraid that if I called the wrong person or mis said a word that I might get in trouble with someone

Never ever be afraid of that. Period.

(unless, of course you were planning to broadcast you just stole the airplane and murdered someone)

 

[asicer]

And a cell phone becomes a big distraction in flight when you're handling an emergency, such as an engine failure. You have to find it, look at it, dial a correct number, hope you're in reception area, then wait while someone (hopefully) answers your call. Compare that to pushing a PTT button while looking at more important things like checklists, engine instruments and landing areas.

That's not the usage model I was referring to with regards to the cell phone. First of all, a cell phone just sitting there in your pocket is a better beacon than an ELT in some respects, even when it can't connect to a tower. It's even better if it can connect to a tower and more so if it's an iPhone with crash detection turned on. Plus, if your cell phone is an iPhone 14 or newer (since 2022) and you're not incapacitated then you can just activate satellite SOS after the crash like you would a PLB. Or you can also combine satellite SOS with crash detection (before takeoff) if you're worried about being unconscious.