Flight following questions

Jim Logajan said:
Where I fly, one contacts "Cascade Approach" which is a TRACON that handles both Eugene and Medford Oregon - and the website for the local NATCA union actually has this as their recommendation, which I assume also applies to FF requests:
On initial call include: Type aircraft, full callsign, approximate location, altitude, and ATIS code. Why? The FAA requires us to get all of this information from you. If you make it a habit to provide it on initial contact we avoid tying up the frequency while we ask you for this information. This allows us to provide better service to you. Examples: "Cascade Approach, Cessna 94299 one-five north at four thousand, landing with Lima.", "Cascade Approach, Arrow 377LC over Drain at three thousand five hundred, inbound with Zulu."
​
http://eug.natca.net/fly eug.htm
http://eug.natca.net/fly mfr.htm
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My experience is you need to get their attention first, then pass all the data. Otherwise, you get "uhhh...2LR, approach, say again your full call sign and request..." and my call sign was 22RL, not LR.
 
Quick Question on this topic...while on FF are you required to advise the controller of altitude changes and heading changes (such as for weather or terrain)? I always do, but not certain if its required. I have been on some frequencies that are quite busy and wondered if they would rather I didn't jam up the air waves
 
flyguy_17 said:
Quick Question on this topic...while on FF are you required to advise the controller of altitude changes and heading changes (such as for weather or terrain)? I always do, but not certain if its required. I have been on some frequencies that are quite busy and wondered if they would rather I didn't jam up the air waves
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Negative.
 
flyguy_17 said:
Quick Question on this topic...while on FF are you required to advise the controller of altitude changes and heading changes (such as for weather or terrain)? I always do, but not certain if its required. I have been on some frequencies that are quite busy and wondered if they would rather I didn't jam up the air waves
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I was on FF once and diverted from a direct course to my destination. The controller contacted me with "say heading", which I interpreted as an official way of asking " do you know where you are going?". When I replied just doing some sightseeing, he was ok with it.:D

Cheers
 
Ron Levy said:
My experience is you need to get their attention first, then pass all the data. Otherwise, you get "uhhh...2LR, approach, say again your full call sign and request..." and my call sign was 22RL, not LR.
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+ 1. Another reason why I give a wake up is that your transmission might not have been heard by the controller in the first place. If you're too far away or in mountainous areas it might be unreadable for the controller. Also they might be on the landline. You could rattle off all this information only to hear "aircraft calling XYZ app, you're broken and unreadable." or "last calling XYZ app, I was on the landline, say again."
 
Ok is it good to advise then out of courtesy or would they rather you not tie up the freq?
 
flyguy_17 said:
Ok is it good to advise then out of courtesy or would they rather you not tie up the freq?
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I've been on FF when I'm just flying around in circles, and I tell them I'm just flying around in circles (performing maneuvers, doing sightseeing, etc) where there is no expectation that I'll stay on an assigned altitude and heading.
 
flyguy_17 said:
Ok is it good to advise then out of courtesy or would they rather you not tie up the freq?
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Well, it is flight following, but giving them an idea where you intend to go will allow them to enter your flight in the computer so controllers downline will have the info. Telling them your destination is usually enough as the route is usually direct. But if you intend to fly non-direct for some reason, such as avoiding a very big lake, let the controller know. When providing flight following the radar controller must coordinate your transition of any Class D airspace you may enter. If you've been cruising above the Class D ceiling and decide to descend it'd be good to let the controller know.
 
ChrisK said:
I've been on FF when I'm just flying around in circles, and I tell them I'm just flying around in circles (performing maneuvers, doing sightseeing, etc) where there is no expectation that I'll stay on an assigned altitude and heading.
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Same here. I give them the maneuvering area and altitude block I'll be using. I've often had them tell me to stay above or below a certain altitude or work to the west side or something like that when they have other traffic going through my working area, but then they'll rescind that restriction once the other traffic is clear. No doubt someone will tell us they're not permitted to do that, but without debating that point, I'm happy to comply if it keeps two planes from getting too close together.
 
X3 Skier said:
I was on FF once and diverted from a direct course to my destination. The controller contacted me with "say heading", which I interpreted as an official way of asking " do you know where you are going?". When I replied just doing some sightseeing, he was ok with it.:D

Cheers
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They mean well....

While training on my night cross country, my instructor had me clear Mt. Diablo (it's unlit) by an excessive margin -- out to Tracy. The NorCal controller called us over Livermore and asked if we were aware Sacramento was to the north, as we were headed east.
 
JoeSelch said:
How do they respond if you leave off "request VFR flight following" in the first call-up? And, would this change anything in your second call? ;)
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I just remembered the other reason that this method was suggested to me. It preserves airtime if the controller is too busy for VFR Flight Following.

Example:
"Cleveland Approach, Cessna 9837L"
"Cessna 9837L, Cleveland Approach, go ahead"
"Cleveland Approach, Cessna 9837L is a Cessna 172, 3 miles north of the Chardon VOR, request VFR Flight following to Franklin County (F-K-L) at 7500"
"Cessna 9837L, Cleveland Approach, unable Flight Following at this time."

Versus

"Cleveland Approach, Cessna 9837L, request VFR Flight Following"
"Cessna 9837L, Cleveland approach, unable Flight Following at this time."
 
Question for roncachamp. In a previous post you mentioned that while on FF, the radar controller must coordinate with Class D for a transition. Is this a rule or courtesy from the controller's standpoint while on flight following? Thank you.
 
It's a rule. 7110.65 2-1-16 b. Coordinate with the appropriate control tower for transit authorization when you are providing radar traffic advisory service to an aircraft that will enter another facility's airspace.
NOTE-
The pilot is not expected to obtain his/her own authorization through each area when in contact with a radar facility.
 
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RichNY said:
Question for roncachamp. In a previous post you mentioned that while on FF, the radar controller must coordinate with Class D for a transition. Is this a rule or courtesy from the controller's standpoint while on flight following? Thank you.
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It's a rule. From Order JO 7110.65 Air Traffic Control:


2−1−16. SURFACE AREAS

a. Coordinate with the appropriate nonapproach
control tower on an individual aircraft basis before
issuing a clearance which would require flight within
a surface area for which the tower has responsibility
unless otherwise specified in a letter of agreement.

REFERENCE−
FAAO JO 7210.3, Para 4−3−1, Letters of Agreement.
14 CFR Section 91.127, Operating on or in the Vicinity of an Airport
in Class E Airspace.
P/CG Term− Surface Area.

b. Coordinate with the appropriate control tower
for transit authorization when you are providing radar
traffic advisory service to an aircraft that will enter
another facility’s airspace.

NOTE−
The pilot is not expected to obtain his/her own
authorization through each area when in contact with a
radar facility.

c. Transfer communications to the appropriate
facility, if required, prior to operation within a surface
area for which the tower has responsibility.

REFERENCE−
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 2−1−17, Radio Communications Transfer.
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 3−1−11, Surface Area Restrictions.
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 7−6−1, Application.
14 CFR Section 91.129, Operations in Class D Airspace.
 
Sorry, figured you were on position Steven. :wink2:
 
bluesky74656 said:
I just remembered the other reason that this method was suggested to me. It preserves airtime if the controller is too busy for VFR Flight Following.

Example:
"Cleveland Approach, Cessna 9837L"
"Cessna 9837L, Cleveland Approach, go ahead"
"Cleveland Approach, Cessna 9837L is a Cessna 172, 3 miles north of the Chardon VOR, request VFR Flight following to Franklin County (F-K-L) at 7500"
"Cessna 9837L, Cleveland Approach, unable Flight Following at this time."

Versus

"Cleveland Approach, Cessna 9837L, request VFR Flight Following"
"Cessna 9837L, Cleveland approach, unable Flight Following at this time."
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Also, you can often get a good idea of whether you'll be able to get flight following or not from how busy the controller is. If he's firing off instructions right and left, chances are slim that you'll get it and you can ask accordingly.
 
jpower said:
Also, you can often get a good idea of whether you'll be able to get flight following or not from how busy the controller is. If he's firing off instructions right and left, chances are slim that you'll get it and you can ask accordingly.
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If you're having trouble getting a word in edgewise, that's a hint as well.

Having said that, I've only had it denied due to workload once. Right after sunset, flying over the Sacramento Delta northwest of MOD VOR, with a billion arrivals into Oakland and San Francisco transitioning overhead.

I've had it dropped due to radar coverage a couple of times. With warning, I'll often change altitude to keep it (that doesn't always work, though).
 
Ron Levy said:
Same here. I give them the maneuvering area and altitude block I'll be using. I've often had them tell me to stay above or below a certain altitude or work to the west side or something like that when they have other traffic going through my working area, but then they'll rescind that restriction once the other traffic is clear. No doubt someone will tell us they're not permitted to do that, but without debating that point, I'm happy to comply if it keeps two planes from getting too close together.
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Just experienced this last week while doing air work over the beach, south of MacArthur Airport. I was on FF with NY approach at 3000' and after a few minutes, the controller asked me to work West or East of my current position.

I complied and moved a few miles east, since I would be heading in that direction after the air work. The NY approach controllers are a great group of folks. Never had any issues with them and have never been denied FF (even during high workload conditions).
 
roncachamp said:
Where sectors are large traffic tends to be light. Perhaps they're lonely.
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They indicated the "request" at the end would alert them that you weren't one of their IFR or FF already in the system and saved them time trying to figure who was calling them. ABQ indicated they hated "full" info call ups as they usually missed most of it, and "call sign only" teed them off as they begin playing "20 questions" with the AC requesting FF.

Their joke was that FF requests ALWAYS occur while on the phone coordinating a hand off and five heavies asking for ride reports:D
 
danhagan said:
They indicated the "request" at the end would alert them that you weren't one of their IFR or FF already in the system and saved them time trying to figure who was calling them. ABQ indicated they hated "full" info call ups as they usually missed most of it, and "call sign only" teed them off as they begin playing "20 questions" with the AC requesting FF.
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Odd that they need that help while controllers at high traffic centers do not.
 
I often wonder why one contacts Approach for FF since one is usually departing. :D

Cheers
 
X3 Skier said:
I often wonder why one contacts Approach for FF since one is usually departing. :D

Cheers
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Hmm... I'm much more likely to be approaching than departing; even more likely to be passing by or through (which would be approaching and then departing)
 
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