Flight Following is Fantastic

[OkieAviator]

Hate to admit it but I've been hesitant to use Flight Following since getting my PPL in October. Did it a few times in training, as well as filing flight plans but that was it. My 50 hours since have been local flights just flying around or flying an hour to some place, eating and then flying back. My method had been monitoring different CTAFs and announcing my crossings and looking out for traffic.

Today for my 4 hour flight to my in laws with my family in the plane I decided to file a plan through the Lockheed site and get flight following. I did some refresher on how to do it, wrote down the center frequency and activated my flight plan via my iPad while my plane was warming up and took off bright and early. I also had written down the format of requesting flight following.

On initial climb up to 7500 I tuned to the center freq and listened for a few minutes before making my request. From then on everything went as smooth as could be. I even made a fuel stop where they terminated the service while I landed and picked it back up on my second climb out. I was much more relaxing than monitoring different CTAFs, I still looked out for traffic but was much more at ease than I would of been otherwise.

Future XC flights I will use both a plan and flight following. The plan helps them understand what I'm doing and after my initial request I didn't have to repeat it, even after the fuel stop... Not sure if it's because I announced I was landing for fuel or because it was in my flight plan... Either way it was great.

The only hiccup is that I requested the center close my flight plan, I guess they didn't because I called FSS after I landed to double check and was told 99.99% of the time centers and towers don't close them. On the flight back tomorrow I'll radio FSS before I shut the plan down to close them.

 

[RyanB]

+1, I love FF too, anytime I leave for a XC I like to request it through ATC, it sure is a good service!

 

[RotorDude]

Hate to admit it but I've been hesitant to use Flight Following since getting my PPL in October. Did it a few times in training, as well as filing flight plans but that was it. My 50 hours since have been local flights just flying around or flying an hour to some place, eating and then flying back. My method had been monitoring different CTAFs and announcing my crossings and looking out for traffic.

Today for my 4 hour flight to my in laws with my family in the plane I decided to file a plan through the Lockheed site and get flight following. I did some refresher on how to do it, wrote down the center frequency and activated my flight plan via my iPad while my plane was warming up and took off bright and early. I also had written down the format of requesting flight following.

On initial climb up to 7500 I tuned to the center freq and listened for a few minutes before making my request. From then on everything went as smooth as could be. I even made a fuel stop where they terminated the service while I landed and picked it back up on my second climb out. I was much more relaxing than monitoring different CTAFs, I still looked out for traffic but was much more at ease than I would of been otherwise.

Future XC flights I will use both a plan and flight following. The plan helps them understand what I'm doing and after my initial request I didn't have to repeat it, even after the fuel stop... Not sure if it's because I announced I was landing for fuel or because it was in my flight plan... Either way it was great.

The only hiccup is that I requested the center close my flight plan, I guess they didn't because I called FSS after I landed to double check and was told 99.99% of the time centers and towers don't close them. On the flight back tomorrow I'll radio FSS before I shut the plan down to close them.

You may have a basic misunderstanding. FF and VFR flight plan are completely unrelated. ATC does not have access to your VFR flight plan, only FSS does. So while it's fine to file VFR FP, it has no relevance to ATC or getting FF. You'll get FF if you sound professional, are (or can be) in radar contact and ATC has time for you, and those are pretty much the only criteria.

 

[Bonanza]

I use Flight Following on every VFR flight, even when it is just a 20 minute hop to go see my daughter. You can't beat another pair of eyes looking for traffic and it's nice to know that someone knows where you are should something happen.
In thousands of hours have never ever filed a VFR flight plan - don't really know why, it just hasn't ever seemed a necessary thing to do.
Glad that you have discovered this great free service and I encourage you to continue to use it at every opportunity.
Stephen.

 

[oilburner]

I like FF out here in the wide open spaces mainly for the separation service it can provide. The MOAs are large, busy and usually in the way of GPS navigation. I tend to avoid the hot ones, but egress and ingress traffic must be respected too.
The past three months have seen T-6 Texans around KROW up, down and all around!
Using FF on my VFR trips keeps me in contact with ground radar and augments my scan for the random targets.

 

[Bonanza]

The MOAs are large, busy and usually in the way of GPS navigation.
The past three months have seen T-6 Texans around KROW up, down and all around!

Do the military still use T6's?
Stephen.

 

[JasonM]

Flight following is great. the best part is, you are talking with the same guys we do while IFR. It helps you get that experience talking to ATC and helps keep the sky safer all around.

Yeah, your VFR flight plan means nothing to ATC. As a matter of fact, you would have received the exact same helpful service had you done the exact same stuff without even filing a VFR flight plan.

btw. I have only filed a VFR flight plan a couple times. It was before I was Instrument Rated, but also when I had my wife and kids on board with me. I would typically just tell my wife my route and when to expect to hear from me. I heard too many story's about guys forgetting to close their VFR flight plans, that I was afraid I would make the same mistake.

 

[EvilEagle]

Do the military still use T6's?

Stephen.

Yup, T-6 Texan II


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Bonanza]

Yup, T-6 Texan II


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Wow! I used to fly them back home 30 years ago (We call them Harvards) in dogfight displays at airshows. They were all ex military and I just assumed that they had all been retired.
A great fun airplane to fly with a rather out of balance noise to performance ratio. If anyone ever gets the opportunity to fly one - go for it, you will never regret it.
Stephen.

 

[Approach_controller]

Thanks for using us. Like you found out, we can't open, close or create VFR flight plans. We may refer to putting you in the NAS as a flight plan, but that is different and refers to every sector and tower from point A to point B will have notice of you 30 minutes prior to hitting their airspace. Our ability to interact with Flight Service is minimal.

We may not see everything due to limitations and saturation, but much more often than not I see traffic the pilot never once saw versus the pilot seeing something my radar didn't detect. Running a final around here is eye opening, no pun intended. CAVU day, 737 abeam 1,500 feet away for a parallel 1,000 feet above, "looking". Makes you realize an infinitesimally small 4 seat GA aircraft can in some VMC conditions be all but impossible to see even with a second pair of eyes.

 

[brian]]

FF works great around here (Central Arkansas). Somewhere west of Ponca City (towards Liberal Kansas), Center usually says "Squawk VFR - good day"... Then again, about the only thing around you might hit is one of those big wind farm towers.

For that reason (losing center), I usually just file a VFR flight plan and try to stay pretty close to the times / route after activating the flight plan with the FSS. Pretty easy, and nice backup plan if something bad should happen.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

I never leave the pattern w/o it

Read my Write-up if you are having trouble sleeping
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77859

 

[red4golf]

Wow! I used to fly them back home 30 years ago (We call them Harvards) in dogfight displays at airshows. They were all ex military and I just assumed that they had all been retired.
A great fun airplane to fly with a rather out of balance noise to performance ratio. If anyone ever gets the opportunity to fly one - go for it, you will never regret it.
Stephen.

The T-6 Texan or Harvard is different than the T-6 Texan II. This is not your daddy's oldsmobile....

To be honest, I'll take the 1940's era Texan any day but then again, I spend my time listening to Bob Hope and the Shadow while while looking for parts to my 1941 chevy business coupe.

 

[Graueradler]

You will appreciate it even more after you get a call or two on traffic that could have been a close call without it - such as "Delay descent. Higher speed traffic below and behind you same heading".

 

[Hank S]

Yep, flight following is the way to go. I've had calls about crossing traffic that I never could see at the top of the haze layer. When distance closed to 3nm, same altitude, and we couldn't see each other, I pushed everything forward and announced my climb. Without that controller, it could have been scary, or ugly, or I may simply not have noticed.

 

[OkieAviator]

You may have a basic misunderstanding. FF and VFR flight plan are completely unrelated. ATC does not have access to your VFR flight plan, only FSS does.

That's good to know. Maybe my flight info stayed in the system since I was only on the ground for 20 mins.

 

[rocketflyer84]

Flight Following is an excellent service and I use it whenever leaving my local tower frequency.

VFR flight plans essentially add nothing if you get FF. At that point it's just some paperwork that you need to close on landing to make sure Flight Service doesn't trigger a search for you.

If an issue was ever encountered having a controller being in constant contact with you and you being in their scope is much better and safer than some piece of paper that just says "If I don't call you back by this time send out search and rescue to look for me" That's all a VFR flight plan is. ATC never sees it and doesn't know / care if you've filed one. It's not like an IFR flight plan that gets sent to ATC before you contact Clearance Delivery.

 

[jordane93]

I use t whenever I'm going more than 50 miles away from airport. Makes airspace except Class B and prohibited obsolete

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

I use t whenever I'm going more than 50 miles away from airport. Makes airspace except Class B and prohibited obsolete

Why 50 miles?

 

[jordane93]

Why 50 miles?

Just the number that I use. Also depends on if I'm flying towards the NY Bravo or other restricted or prohibited airspace.

 

[eetrojan]

I use t whenever I'm going more than 50 miles away from airport. Makes airspace except Class B and prohibited obsolete

Restricted too? I thought otherwise.

 

[airdale]

One point that has not been made (in favor of FF but a warning too): If ATC loses you unexpectedly, like you unexpectedly descend below radar or stop talking to them on the radio, that will trigger standard missing aircraft procedures. So if you stop hearing ATC because they or you missed a frequency change, ask someone for a relay, find the nearest ATC frequency in your magic box or in a castellated box on a low altitude chart. You need to restore contact even if it is just to ask them to cancel FF.

Similarly, if a layer is pushing you down, let them know. They will usually lose you on radar before they lose comm contact, so they will say "Radar service terminated, squawk VFR" but it is much better to let them know you plan to descend. They know what their radar coverage is everywhere in their sector and will advise you accordingly.

 

[Shawn]

Restricted too? I thought otherwise.

Not if the Restricted airspace is active. However I fly though R space all the time on FF after being advised that the R airspace is cold or it has an upper ceiling that I am above...which when flying in unfamiliar area I would just usually assume that all R airspace is active and avoid it if I was not on FF.

A quick query to ATC when on FF is a lot easier than digging through the info on the chart while enroute to know if you need to divert around it.

 

[rocketflyer84]

In talking to some older pilots Flight Following didn't use to be a "thing" or as much of a "thing" as it is today.

In the absence of readily available controllers with good radar coverage the VFR flight plan was a way for VFR pilots to have some level of comfort that the FAA knew they were up in the air and if they didn't turn up at the destination by an agreed time those that went looking for you had a good idea of your intended route of flight and thus knew where to look.

If one is flying in a remote area with poor radar and/or radio coverage at lower altitudes then the VFR flight plan would still be a good idea. However, in busier areas with blanket coverage flight following is far better and easier.

I know in such busier areas many people haven't filed a VFR flight plan in ages and instructors in those areas make students aware of what the VFR flight plan is, but often teach and insist on the use of flight following as the primary means of keeping an eye on ones cross country trips.

If you fly a route that takes you across sectors controlled by different facilities you get the added plus of having your radar track appear on sites like FlightAware. If you stay within a facility they usually assign VFR flights a 'local' code that doesn't appear in the public feeds, but if they need to hand you off to another Center or facility they give you a code in a different block that puts your details into the public feeds picked up by those various 'flight tracking' sites.

 

[eetrojan]

Not if the Restricted airspace is active. However I fly though R space all the time on FF after being advised that the R airspace is cold or it has an upper ceiling that I am above...which when flying in unfamiliar area I would just usually assume that all R airspace is active and avoid it if I was not on FF.

A quick query to ATC when on FF is a lot easier than digging through the info on the chart while enroute to know if you need to divert around it.

Got it. I often query ATC about the status of a restricted area I want to skirt through and was wondering, based on your initial comment, if I didn't need to. Thanks!

 

[airdale]

Got it. I often query ATC about the status of a restricted area I want to skirt through and was wondering, based on your initial comment, if I didn't need to. Thanks!

I'm not sure about R airspace, but if you're on FF the controller is supposed to automatically clear you or arrange clearance through any B,C, or D airspace on your route.

I have an ATC friend who is the boss of a bunch of towers in several states. I asked him about this. He said: "They are supposed to clear you, but it's a good idea to ask."

Since they are supposed to clear you, I can't see that it would be a violation of you entered the airspace without a specific clearance, but why find out?

 

[rocketflyer84]

I'm not sure about R airspace, but if you're on FF the controller is supposed to automatically clear you or arrange clearance through any B,C, or D airspace on your route.

A lot of other posts on this site have been made by people busted for thinking this.

Flight following is not like being on an IFR flight plan where the controller is automatically staging up your entry to where you're going.

Flight following DOES NOT mean the controller will clear the airspace ahead of you. All they know is that you are flying from A to B and unless you request clearance the assumption is that you will steer clear of airspace you haven't arraged for clearance into. You can certainly ask for help and, workload permitting, they can help but the controller absolutely is not "supposed to automatically clear you".

 

[Velocity173]

I'm not sure about R airspace, but if you're on FF the controller is supposed to automatically clear you or arrange clearance through any B,C, or D airspace on your route.

I have an ATC friend who is the boss of a bunch of towers in several states. I asked him about this. He said: "They are supposed to clear you, but it's a good idea to ask."

Since they are supposed to clear you, I can't see that it would be a violation of you entered the airspace without a specific clearance, but why find out?

If you're approaching a B, you need to hear a clearance into it from approach.

If you're approaching a C or D, your two way communications with approach is enough to fly thru it. It's the approach controller's responsibility to coordinate your transition thru with the tower. It would be an Operational Deviation on their part and would have nothing to do with you.

 

[Brad Z]

I agree, FF is indeed fantastic.

My method had been monitoring different CTAFs and announcing my crossings and looking out for traffic.

What altitude are you flying when you make these calls? Unless you routinely fly your cross countries below 1,500agl, please don't do that anymore. Unless your presence is affecting aircraft in the immediate vicinity of the airport, it's not proper transmit to the entire state of Oklahoma (or wherever) the fact that you're flying overhead at 5,500 (unless you're about to drop skydivers on the airport). The higher you are, the farther your radio transmissions travel.

Another position reporting pet-peeve of mine is folks checking in with class D towers when they're flying near or over class D airspace. Unless you're transiting the airspace, the tower controller generally doesn't care. If you really just want to talk to ATC, get flight following with the appropriate Tracon (approach) or ARTCC (center).

The only hiccup is that I requested the center close my flight plan, I guess they didn't because I called FSS after I landed to double check and was told 99.99% of the time centers and towers don't close them. On the flight back tomorrow I'll radio FSS before I shut the plan down to close them.

As others mentioned, ATC doesn't open or close VFR flight plans. That is the complete dominion of FSS. If ATC did happen to close a VFR flight plan for you, it's only because they were really nice and had the time to pick up the phone and call FSS on the phone.

Regarding closing flight plans...if you're going to bother with them, open them up before take-off, and don't close them until after shutdown. Back when I learned 20 years ago, SOP was to open VFR flightplan once in the air and high enough to establish radio contact with flight service. The process was reversed for closing, as we would call flight service while still airborne. Problem with that is your flight plan offers you no protection if you crash on take off or landing. Cell phones and ipads simplify the procedure tremendously.

 

[rocketflyer84]

If you're approaching a C or D, your two way communications with approach is enough to fly thru it. It's the approach controller's responsibility to coordinate your transition thru with the tower. It would be an Operational Deviation on their part and would have nothing to do with you.

That's not quite accurate. The "two way communication" bit is for a controller that has jurisdiction over the airspace (tower for class D or approach for that airport for Class C). Just being in communication with some other facility doesn't count.

Just being on flight following wouldn't allow you to just bust through a Class D airport's airspace unless the tower cleared you. The controller giving you flight following could call up on your behalf and get such clearance but unless that exchange has occured and you were specially told so then you're not cleared into the Class D.

With Class D one usually is flying well over the top so often no clearance is required.

With Class C if your're flying into that airport and that's the approach you're talking to them you should be good, but if you're just passing through I wouldn't just bust into that airspace unless the approach controller knows and has acknowledged your intention to do so, otherwise the assumption is that you will stay outside the Class C. Contacting a Class C airspace's approach controller to get flight following is not the same as contacting the controller to ask for permission to enter the airspace or land at the parent airport.

A quick search shows many posts from people busted for airspace violations by assuming flight following gave them "clearance"

 

[Velocity173]

A lot of other posts on this site have been made by people busted for thinking this.

Flight following is not like being on an IFR flight plan where the controller is automatically staging up your entry to where you're going.

Flight following DOES NOT mean the controller will clear the airspace ahead of you. All they know is that you are flying from A to B and unless you request clearance the assumption is that you will steer clear of airspace you haven't arraged for clearance into. You can certainly ask for help and, workload permitting, they can help but the controller absolutely is not "supposed to automatically clear you".

If you're under FF it is the controller's responsibility to coordinate your transition thru other ATC facility's airspace. The pilot is not expected to get their own transition thru say some Class D tower while talking to approach. It's already done for them.

 

[Velocity173]

That's not quite accurate. The "two way communication" bit is for a controller that has jurisdiction over the airspace (tower for class D or approach for that airport for Class C). Just being in communication with some other facility doesn't count.

Just being on flight following wouldn't allow you to just bust through a Class D airport's airspace unless the tower cleared you. The controller giving you flight following could call up on your behalf and get such clearance but unless that exchange has occured and you were specially told so then you're not cleared into the Class D.

With Class D one usually is flying well over the top so often no clearance is required.

With Class C if your're flying into that airport and that's the approach you're talking to them you should be good, but if you're just passing through I wouldn't just bust into that airspace unless the approach controller knows and has acknowledged your intention to do so, otherwise the assumption is that you will stay outside the Class C. Contacting a Class C airspace's approach controller to get flight following is not the same as contacting the controller to ask for permission to enter the airspace or land at the parent airport.

A quick search shows many posts from people busted for airspace violations by assuming flight following gave them "clearance"

Negative. See 2-1-14 and 2-1-16 of the 7110.65. Especially the note in 2-1-16.

 

[Brad Z]

I'm not sure about R airspace, but if you're on FF the controller is supposed to automatically clear you or arrange clearance through any B,C, or D airspace on your route.

As a pilot, you know that you need a explicit clearance to enter class B airspace. 14 CFR 91.131(a)(1)

I have an ATC friend who is the boss of a bunch of towers in several states. I asked him about this. He said: "They are supposed to clear you, but it's a good idea to ask."

From Air Traffic Order 7110.65, which is the "bible" for controllers:

Section 5-5-10
VFR aircraft approaching Class B, Class C, Class D, or TRSA airspace which is under the control jurisdiction of another air traffic control facility should either be provided with a radar handoff or be advised that radar service is terminated, given their position in relation to the Class B, Class C, Class D, or TRSA airspace, and the ATC frequency, if known, for the airspace to be entered. These actions should be accomplished in sufficient time for the pilot to obtain the required ATC approval prior to entering the airspace involved, or to avoid the airspace.

"Should" is not the same as "must". Just an FYI.

Since they are supposed to clear you, I can't see that it would be a violation of you entered the airspace without a specific clearance, but why find out?

You must receive an ATC clearance from the ATC facility having jurisdiction for that area before operating an aircraft in that area. The controller you're talking to may not have jurisdiction to give the clearance. Ask before entering.

 

[rocketflyer84]

Negative. See 2-1-14 and 2-1-16 of the 7110.65. Especially the note in 2-1-16.

This is in relation to pilots flying filed IFR flight plans.

Someone on VFR flight following doesn't have a recorded route of flight... just a destination. There's no way for a controller to even know where you are intending to fly as it pertains to specific airspace. You could go around it, above it, through it... they have no way of knowing what you are planning to do. It's fight FOLLOWING not flight direction (as with an IFR flight plan). They're simply watching you on their screen and if they see traffic in your area will call you up.

Now, a good controller with some spare time will often go a few extra steps and help you out. I've certainly had controllers say "what's your intended route of flight?" and then suggest that they go ahead and get me a clearance... but that's certainly not required.

Now, if the controller sees you flying head on into an airspace you've not been cleared into then yes they SHOULD call you up and make you aware, perhaps offer to get your clearance but they're not REQUIRED to. The PIC of a VFR aircraft is responsible for ensuring such clearance is in place. If you've not been cleared you've not been cleared. The controller providing flight following isn't magically aware of what you're trying to do and clearing all possible airspace ahead of you.

When arriving at your destination if that's C, D or B then yes they should either terminate you prior to entry or offer a handoff but even there the final responsibility is with the PIC for VFR flight. If you hear nothing DO NOT just keep flying on in and assume you've been cleared.

Again, a lot of people on this site have reported being busted for flying into airspace they were not cleared through because they assumed being on flight following meant such clearance was arranged.

 

[airdale]

Flight following DOES NOT mean the controller will clear the airspace ahead of you.

According to my ATC executive friend and my own experience, this statement is factually incorrect. I have often heard (completely unrequested): "Cleared into the Bravo, maintain 4,500." and "Cleared through the blah-blah Delta." I am too lazy to study the FAA JOs to find the exact words, however. My friend's recommendation to always ask makes the point somewhat moot anyway.

I'm not sure I understand Velocity173's comments about Approach. If you are on FF inbound from somewhere, Center will have shipped you to approach and all of your communication will be with them until you are told to contact tower or, having passed through Approach's jurisdiction you get shipped back to Center.

A slight exception is that sometimes at lower altitudes in more densely populated areas, you get shipped from Approach to Approach, talking with ARTCCs seldom or even not at all. But it's all the same. Approach, Center, Tower, it's all ATC.

Edit: Thanks for the confirmation, McFly. Our posts passed in the ether. Had I seen yours I would not have bothered with this one.

 

[rocketflyer84]

According to my ATC executive friend and my own experience, this statement is factually incorrect. I have often heard (completely unrequested): "Cleared into the Bravo, maintain 4,500." and "Cleared through the blah-blah Delta." I am too lazy to study the FAA JOs to find the exact words, however. My friend's recommendation to always ask makes the point somewhat moot anyway.

I completely agree, this absolutely does happen.

The point is just that someone providing you flight following is not "required" to automatically clear you through any airspace ahead and this is where people go into trouble. Remember, the controller providing FF doesn't really know precisely what you're doing unless you told them. They know you are going to airport X but that's about it. If there's a swiss cheese matrix of airspace ahead of you the assumption is that you will steer clear unless you've asked for and received clearance.

People get into trouble when they're on flight following and think "I'm on FF so I'm good" and then proceed to fly into B, C or D airspace only to have a controller flip on them wanting to know why they just flew into airspace without being cleared.

If you're not cleared you're not cleared. Being on flight following does not constitute clearance. However on a work-permitting basis the controller providing you with flight following can certainly help by obtaining such clearance if you ask. E.g.:

XYZ Approach Bugsmasher 1234 is looking to transition across the Acme airport's delta airspace at 2,500. Are you able to provide that clearance?

Bugsmasher 1234, I've just spoken with the tower at Acme and they've cleared you through the class delta at 2,500 as requested.

Cleared through the delta at 2,500, Bugsmasher 1234.

 

[airdale]

RocketFlyer84: Spin it how you like, but your statement ("Flight following DOES NOT mean the controller will clear the airspace ahead of you.") was factually incorrect. In addition to my information and experience, read McFly's Post #26:

"'If you're under FF it is the controller's responsibility to coordinate your transition thru other ATC facility's airspace. The pilot is not expected to get their own transition thru say some Class D tower while talking to approach. It's already done for them."

IIRC he is a former controller.

 

[rocketflyer84]

RocketFlyer84: Spin it how you like, but your statement ("Flight following DOES NOT mean the controller will clear the airspace ahead of you.") was factually incorrect. In addition to my information and experience, read McFly's Post #26:

"'If you're under FF it is the controller's responsibility to coordinate your transition thru other ATC facility's airspace. The pilot is not expected to get their own transition thru say some Class D tower while talking to approach. It's already done for them."

IIRC he is a former controller.

I'm on VFR flight following to airport X far away. 30 nm ahead of me are 3 class D airports and one class C that my current heading would have me clip the edge of, but I can also easily fly a few nm around them. Does the controller:

A -- Use their psychic powers to know my exact intended route through this area and coordinate with the correct facilities to get me clearance.

B -- Call up all the responsible facilities and get me clearance everywhere since he doesn't actually have psychic powers but is somehow expected to still make sure I'm cleared through all this airspace, or

C -- Know that I'm VFR and will stay clear of all the en-route Class D and Class C unless I specifically ask him to help clear me through. If I ask he may help or may say he's unable due to workload.

I assure you that if I assumed A or B and just flew right on through there would be problems.

VFR flight following is purely a workload permitting service. The controller is not "required" to do much of anything and the VFR pilot is not relieved of any duties for either traffic separation or airspace clearance. Flight following is simply supplemental assistance for the VFR pilot. A VFR pilot should never 'assume' clearance. As discussed at length, the controller providing flight following will often help but if you're not cleared you're not cleared.

 

[Velocity173]

According to my ATC executive friend and my own experience, this statement is factually incorrect. I have often heard (completely unrequested): "Cleared into the Bravo, maintain 4,500." and "Cleared through the blah-blah Delta." I am too lazy to study the FAA JOs to find the exact words, however. My friend's recommendation to always ask makes the point somewhat moot anyway.

I'm not sure I understand Velocity173's comments about Approach. If you are on FF inbound from somewhere, Center will have shipped you to approach and all of your communication will be with them until you are told to contact tower or, having passed through Approach's jurisdiction you get shipped back to Center.

A slight exception is that sometimes at lower altitudes in more densely populated areas, you get shipped from Approach to Approach, talking with ARTCCs seldom or even not at all. But it's all the same. Approach, Center, Tower, it's all ATC.

Edit: Thanks for the confirmation, McFly. Our posts passed in the ether. Had I seen yours I would not have bothered with this one.

RocketFlyer84: Spin it how you like, but your statement ("Flight following DOES NOT mean the controller will clear the airspace ahead of you.") was factually incorrect. In addition to my information and experience, read McFly's Post #26:

"'If you're under FF it is the controller's responsibility to coordinate your transition thru other ATC facility's airspace. The pilot is not expected to get their own transition thru say some Class D tower while talking to approach. It's already done for them."

IIRC he is a former controller.

Correct. Not to mention we've been over this many times before on POA. I'm surprised Steven hasn't gotten on board yet; too busy talking about remote towers I guess.

The references in the .65 have nothing to do with IFR or VFR. They apply to both types of flight plans. This is not an uncommon incorrect assumption though. I don't know how many times I've heard in a worried tone "ah...approach it looks like I'm right over your airfield. Do you want me to contact tower?" "Negative, already done."

Even if you're not on a XC, just out doing some sight seeing or teaining, the controller will monitor you and get as much information about your route of flight as possible. I'm sure we've all gotten, "N12345, just let me know if you'll go any further east so I can coordinate with tower." Or "N12345, remain west of your area right now. Tower has some traffic in the pattern." Or if necessary, "N12345, go ahead and contact XYZ Twr on 118.5 if you're going to be working that area." All of that is coordinated by approach having control over that aircraft. You call tower in the landline for a transition. If they don't have anything going on, "transition approved." If they have traffic, "go ahead and put him on me."

 

[rocketflyer84]

The references in the .65 have nothing to do with IFR or VFR. They apply to both types of flight plans. This is not an uncommon incorrect assumption though. I don't know how many times I've heard in a worried tone "ah...approach it looks like I'm right over your airfield. Do you want me to contact tower?" "Negative, already done."

If you're on VFR flight following the controller has no flight plan details for you. The only thing they definitely know is the destination showing in your radar return's data block that was setup when you first requested flight following. Even if you filed a VFR flight plan with a detailed route they don't see that information. They may ask you for more details in an attempt to help you out better, but are not required to.

The point being that unless you've specifically communicated a desire to fly into a specific en-route airspace it's unlikely they know this is your intention. Many times they will proactively contact you if it seems like you might be headed in that direction, but unless you specifically get clearance to enter you're not cleared.

Even if you're not on a XC, just out doing some sight seeing or teaining, the controller will monitor you and get as much information about your route of flight as possible. I'm sure we've all gotten, "N12345, just let me know if you'll go any further east so I can coordinate with tower." Or "N12345, remain west of your area right now. Tower has some traffic in the pattern." Or if necessary, "N12345, go ahead and contact XYZ Twr on 118.5 if you're going to be working that area." All of that is coordinated by approach having control over that aircraft. You call tower in the landline for a transition. If they don't have anything going on, "transition approved." If they have traffic, "go ahead and put him in me."

This is all true, on a workload permitting basis. They may simply just ask your destination or general area of flight if just sightseeing and that's it. They are "following" you not looking out ahead of you. You can certainly leverage them to help in getting any required clearances up ahead but unless that happens you're not cleared. If you just fly through an airspace because it was directly on the line of sight between A and B and assume the FF controller was going to clear you through then that can be a problem. Again, they have no detailed flight plan for you so the assumption is you steer clear unless you arrange with them to be cleared through.