Fixed Wing vs Rotor

Hey folks - new member here. I started helicopter flight school a month or so back (got about 14 hours in an R22). Destination is limited to a private pilot's license. One of the two machines at my school has an old panel mount GPS that I can hardly see and the other is not fitted with one at all.

I've been struggling with the best course of action - higher end (large display) GPS or iPad mini running FF, WX or whatever. I was real close to pulling the trigger on a Garmin 695, but a couple of hundred forum posts speak highly of the tablet/app approach. There isn't much room in the cabin and I'm already using a thigh-strap to hold documentation, so a lap belt isn't an option. I'm assuming that I'll be using a suction-cup mount in a location that balances pedal interference with visibility.

I'm 60 years old and my near vision isn't quite what it used to be, so I need something with a nice display. The over-temp screen issues with the tablets have me a bit spooked. I'm less concerned with the expense than I am with the ease of use. I don't expect to be traveling more than an hour or so from home port. Any guidance would be most appreciated.
 
Don't listen to airplane pilots. Airplanes are boring and stable so airplane pilots bring tablets and play angry birds while flying. Serious, helicopter pilots don't do the trifold kneeboard with built in coffeemaker crap. Ask your instructor, watch the other rotor guys. And if you love stuff more than flying switch to airplanes.
Tradford said:
Hey folks - new member here. I started helicopter flight school a month or so back (got about 14 hours in an R22). Destination is limited to a private pilot's license. One of the two machines at my school has an old panel mount GPS that I can hardly see and the other is not fitted with one at all.

I've been struggling with the best course of action - higher end (large display) GPS or iPad mini running FF, WX or whatever. I was real close to pulling the trigger on a Garmin 695, but a couple of hundred forum posts speak highly of the tablet/app approach. There isn't much room in the cabin and I'm already using a thigh-strap to hold documentation, so a lap belt isn't an option. I'm assuming that I'll be using a suction-cup mount in a location that balances pedal interference with visibility.

I'm 60 years old and my near vision isn't quite what it used to be, so I need something with a nice display. The over-temp screen issues with the tablets have me a bit spooked. I'm less concerned with the expense than I am with the ease of use. I don't expect to be traveling more than an hour or so from home port. Any guidance would be most appreciated.
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Tradford said:
Hey folks - new member here. I started helicopter flight school a month or so back (got about 14 hours in an R22). Destination is limited to a private pilot's license. One of the two machines at my school has an old panel mount GPS that I can hardly see and the other is not fitted with one at all.

I've been struggling with the best course of action - higher end (large display) GPS or iPad mini running FF, WX or whatever. I was real close to pulling the trigger on a Garmin 695, but a couple of hundred forum posts speak highly of the tablet/app approach. There isn't much room in the cabin and I'm already using a thigh-strap to hold documentation, so a lap belt isn't an option. I'm assuming that I'll be using a suction-cup mount in a location that balances pedal interference with visibility.

I'm 60 years old and my near vision isn't quite what it used to be, so I need something with a nice display. The over-temp screen issues with the tablets have me a bit spooked. I'm less concerned with the expense than I am with the ease of use. I don't expect to be traveling more than an hour or so from home port. Any guidance would be most appreciated.
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I you want something easy to view without having to tilt it this way or that to deal with the light, hands down the answer is the Garmin unit.
 
Tradford said:
Hey folks - new member here. I started helicopter flight school a month or so back (got about 14 hours in an R22). Destination is limited to a private pilot's license. One of the two machines at my school has an old panel mount GPS that I can hardly see and the other is not fitted with one at all.

I've been struggling with the best course of action - higher end (large display) GPS or iPad mini running FF, WX or whatever. I was real close to pulling the trigger on a Garmin 695, but a couple of hundred forum posts speak highly of the tablet/app approach. There isn't much room in the cabin and I'm already using a thigh-strap to hold documentation, so a lap belt isn't an option. I'm assuming that I'll be using a suction-cup mount in a location that balances pedal interference with visibility.

I'm 60 years old and my near vision isn't quite what it used to be, so I need something with a nice display. The over-temp screen issues with the tablets have me a bit spooked. I'm less concerned with the expense than I am with the ease of use. I don't expect to be traveling more than an hour or so from home port. Any guidance would be most appreciated.
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I use an iPad mini on a knee board with a large format sticky note on the Smart Cover. You really don't want to use an iPad in a helicopter for anything but reference. If want to navigate with anything more advanced then a chart get a panel mounted GPS nav unit. Optimally you should have an HSI slaved to a GPS like a 430 or a GTN650. In an R22 it's tough but most likely you won't be flying one for long. An R44 makes a better instrument training ship.
 
Thanks guys - that the kind of G2 is what I'm looking for. I'm really not into gadgets, but I would like to have some navigational convenience and my limited skill prevents me from taking my eyes off of the horizon for very long.

The R44s at my school are much better equipped and I know I'll be taking my check ride in one - but they're also twice as expensive to use as the R22. I drive a little AC Cobra replica - so I feel pretty much at home in the 22.

My last bit of angst over the Garmin - is the weather feature (e.g. 696) worth the extra money for my circumstances? Again - thanks for the help.
 
Personally I don't go for the weather feature, it's as much a trap as a trick since the information is old.
 
Thanks for that. I decided to pull the trigger on that new iFly 520. The display is not as big as I'd like, but it's got a 30 day return guarantee. Probably sufficient for what I'm doing and if it's too weak, I'll send it back.
 
RotorAndWing said:
The 4 foot hovering auto sounds about right, but even with that there would be no need to "rock the cyclic" back and forth on any helicopter to successfully put it down, it would only require cushioning with collective pull.
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That was my mistake for not being more clear. It was only at altitude that this was considered an issue.
[/quote]

The higher up (3000') is a "zero airspeed" autorotation and different in as far as recovery technique which is different in various helicopters but essentially lowering the nose (most helicopters tend to drop nose on a power loss so it depends really on how much cyclic to pull back).

This is not a maneuver that is taught in any of the helicopter syllabus and is not demonstrated during any checkride. This is something that would be good to demonstrate to a student so they could see the effect. A maneuver such as this is for people who do commercial work and find themselves in such situations routinely.

Not sure where the "flat bottom" "rocking the cyclic" stories came from but honestly doesn't make any sense aerodynamically. Autorotation is dependent on blade disk area, twist of the blades between the driven region (tips) and the driven region (inboard).http://www.copters.com/aero/autorotation.html[/QUOTE]

I heard it both from that IP (early 1970s) and from an IP at Rotorway (about 1988 or so, when the Exec was new but they were still training in Scorpions).

In each case, it's a lightweight helo with light (low-energy) main rotors. If they slow too much, you no longer have a rotor disc, you have two fised withs with a very narrow chord -- and one of them is pointing the wrong way. ;)
 
SoloEqs said:
I heard it both from that IP (early 1970s) and from an IP at Rotorway (about 1988 or so, when the Exec was new but they were still training in Scorpions).

In each case, it's a lightweight helo with light (low-energy) main rotors. If they slow too much, you no longer have a rotor disc, you have two fised withs with a very narrow chord -- and one of them is pointing the wrong way. ;)
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Doesn't matter how low inertia the rotor system is as long as you get collective down quickly and allow the blades to enter autorotation, which is being driven by the outer portion of the blades. Fuselage shape has very little if anything to do with it.
 
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RotorAndWing said:
Doesn't matter how low inertia the rotor system is as long as you get collective down quickly and allow the blades to enter autorotation, which is being driven by the outer portion of the blades. Fuselage shape has very little if anything to do with it.
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:yeahthat:
That would be my guess as well not having any aerodynamical numbers to back me up. I'm just going on the area of the rotor disk that would be blanked by the structure. Not much IMHO.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
:yeahthat:
That would be my guess as well not having any aerodynamical numbers to back me up. I'm just going on the area of the rotor disk that would be blanked by the structure. Not much IMHO.
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Not a heli guy but I'm with you, perhaps you could get some buffeting of the fuselage though...:dunno:
 
Not to be random in thoughts gentlemen but if you could have one helicopter for your own personal use which one would you choose?
 
On the cheap... a Rotorway Talon with a turbine. If money was no object, I'd go with a Huey (or a more current variant) or maybe an EC355/AS355 Twin Squirrel. And that is if I'm the pilot. If I have to ride in the back (we're on the unlimited budget), I'd go with a luxury Sikorsky S92.
 
LJS1993 said:
Well let's say you have 100,000 bucks of cash on tap, great credit, and are already fully trained.
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$100,000 cash is all? I wouldn't buy any helicopter, I don't finance anything that doesn't make a profit.
 
Bell 429. Good 150 kts cruise and twin eng redundancy. $100,000 budget-Helicycle.
 
EC-130. Call me biased but I think it's the best single engine helicopter in the world...
 
moonshine said:
Rrrright
That's what you fly it at to check the rotor balance
Takes about 700lbs/hr to stay there IIRC
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570 PPH isn't bad for 150 kts. Still expensive but it's the price you pay for helo ownership. Just got a battery for our 407 on Friday. $3,500!
 
Velocity173 said:
570 PPH isn't bad for 150 kts. Still expensive but it's the price you pay for helo ownership. Just got a battery for our 407 on Friday. $3,500!
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The book is in the hangar and I haven't touched a 429 in almost two years, but 130 to maybe 140 kts cruise on 400-500 PPH is much closer to the real life applications from what I remember.
$3,500 heh, try 25k for the triple switches (three sensors in one unit, original revision had very poor life expectancy). IIRC we ended up buying two.

Hell of a fun helo though. I sat through 2/3 of a maintenance ground school and then a full pilot ground school, then sims and flights for transitioning two pilots (neither spoke English) - knew each button and system intimately. Then spent a couple of weeks in Canada taking delivery of our helo - put a bunch of hours on it.
Wish I had my helicopter rating, would have walked out completely checked out in it. Oh well :)

PS Figured I'd throw in a pic or two. Or three

Rain test. This particular rain test lead to weather striping redesign to the passenger doors ;)
6 up, half fuel - comfy ride at 135 kias
My SO in the back with Bell reps. Some nice elbow room in there ;)
 

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moonshine said:
The book is in the hangar and I haven't touched a 429 in almost two years, but 130 to maybe 140 kts cruise on 400-500 PPH is much closer to the real life applications from what I remember.
$3,500 heh, try 25k for the triple switches (three sensors in one unit, original revision had very poor life expectancy). IIRC we ended up buying two.

Hell of a fun helo though. I sat through 2/3 of a maintenance ground school and then a full pilot ground school, then sims and flights for transitioning two pilots (neither spoke English) - knew each button and system intimately. Then spent a couple of weeks in Canada taking delivery of our helo - put a bunch of hours on it.
Wish I had my helicopter rating, would have walked out completely checked out in it. Oh well :)

PS Figured I'd throw in a pic or two. Or three

Rain test. This particular rain test lead to weather striping redesign to the passenger doors ;)
6 up, half fuel - comfy ride at 135 kias
My SO in the back with Bell reps. Some nice elbow room in there ;)
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Nice aircraft. Yeah the flight test I read said 147 KIAS at 570 PPH. I also read it wasn't that comfy of a ride at those speeds. 130 being much better.

Like the big cabin as well. More room than an EC-135 and slightly faster.
 
Velocity173 said:
Nice aircraft. Yeah the flight test I read said 147 KIAS at 570 PPH. I also read it wasn't that comfy of a ride at those speeds. 130 being much better.

Like the big cabin as well. More room than an EC-135 and slightly faster.
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We did a 150kias run to make sure there's no weird vibrations and such, but 130-140 kias give a comfier ride for sure.

Need to go make some extra moolah and finish up that RTC add-on :yes:
 
LJS1993 said:
Last night I was reading an article written by a guy who claimed there were definitely differences between airplane pilots and helicopter pilots. This guy claimed helicopter pilots were a "brooding" bunch of loners in many ways. Are there any differences you guys have noticed between the two types?
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I know this thread is ancient when measured in Internet time, but this is probably the article the original poster was referring to.

Why Helicopter Pilots are Different​

The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by its nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces and controls working in opposition to each, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying, immediately and disastrously. There is no such thing as a gliding helicopter.

That is why being a helicopter pilot is so different from being an airplane pilot, and why, in general airplane pilots are open, clear-eyed, bouyant extroverts, and helicopter pilots are brooders, introstpective anticipators of trouble. They know if something bad has not happened, it is about to.

Harry Reasoner, February 16, 1971
Broadcaster and writer, 1923-1991.
 
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