Fixed Wing vs Rotor

RotorAndWing said:
Depends upon which Robinson model we are talking about. The R44 has a high inertia rotor so it will ride just fine. The R22 has a low inertia system so it won't be as much.

The helicopter does take turbulence in stride, if it's getting rough in a helicopter the airplanes are being beaten pretty bad.
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Comparing an R44 rotor system to a starflex system which is the same unit that the Daufin Coast Guard ship uses, is like comparing a Brigs and Stratton to an F1 engine. But I'd rather be in an R44 then a fixed wing anything anytime. ;)
 
HeliNomad said:
Comparing an R44 rotor system to a starflex system which is the same unit that the Daufin Coast Guard ship uses, is like comparing a Brigs and Stratton to an F1 engine. But I'd rather be in an R44 then a fixed wing anything anytime. ;)
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No, just comparing differences in high inertia versus low inertia. When someone says "Robinson this" or "Robinson that" they need to be specific as there are R22, R44 and R66's.
 
I'm fascinated by all helicopters. My wallet isn't quite as enthusiastic, however.

I could write a check for the full amount of a rotor transition course right now. The problem becomes, "what would I do with it?"...

(Kinda the same reason I don't do a seaplane rating, in a landlocked State where it's illegal to land on any public body of water... the helicopter would actually be slightly more useful.)

There's definitely room for a helipad at the new homestead. There's a guy seven miles north who's private helipad even made the VFR charts. Looking at it via Google Earth, he has a nice setup. Concrete pad and strip of concrete to a nice big hangar a little ways from his house on the flat spot in his property.

Wonder if he ever flies or if the pilot still owns the place. Never seen a helicopter over that-a-way. Have seen a supercub or similar with fat tires, messing around on a private ranch to the north once.
 
Depending on DA the 44 will go up to 130 knots or so don't remember exactly

Also I've been in gusting to 35 with the 44 up here in the "mountains" more times than i can count, no issues. Though I prefer to take the 47 in those cases.
 
Are there any helicopters that are FIKI certified?
 
us AAirways said:
Are there any helicopters that are FIKI certified?
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Yes. Many IFR capable helicopters are allowed to fly into known ice. Examples are UH-60, AS365, EC-155, etc. They will usually have heated blades in addition to additional systems.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
In the end he admitted it was stupid and we discussed why. Hopefully he learned his lesson.
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Maybe. I sure hope so. Though many of those guys go off saying, "Stupid FAA...." rather than "stupid me....".

"Why does it always have to be pilots?"

"Son, we're just trying to point out you might have a problem here....."
sigh.
 
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us AAirways said:
Are there any helicopters that are FIKI certified?
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The UH-60 was the first helicopter certified to fly in icing back in the early 80s. It has heated leading edge main and tail rotor blades for de-ice. It has a heated windshield with engine and engine inlet anti-ice. Of course pitot heat as well.
 
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I would very much like to get a whirleybird license - I just can't afford it.
 
LJS1993 said:
I bet the chicks would dig a helicopter.
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Heh. For a long time I did lots of things that were very unlike me because I thought chicks would dig them. I decided that I was going to start doing things that I like and that I want to do, and they will come along.

So far so good I guess.

I priced a 1 hour tour for 4 in a Bell 47 - this gif best sums up my reaction.

aPvWZRn_460sa.gif
 
DavidWhite said:
Heh. For a long time I did lots of things that were very unlike me because I thought chicks would dig them. I decided that I was going to start doing things that I like and that I want to do, and they will come along.

So far so good I guess.

I priced a 1 hour tour for 4 in a Bell 47 - this gif best sums up my reaction.

aPvWZRn_460sa.gif
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I priced some okay tours here in SoCal in an R44. I might do one this summer to see if I freak out or not. Keep in mind I'm not a pilot like the rest of you guys so who knows.
 
LJS1993 said:
I bet the chicks would dig a helicopter.
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That's the only reason why I went EMS. Hot nurses! :D Unfortunately there are way too many male nurses in this field. :(
 
R44 tour should be around $650 to $700 an hour. Anything turbine will be $2500 and up.
 
HeliNomad said:
R44 tour should be around $650 to $700 an hour. Anything turbine will be $2500 and up.
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We've got tours up here in North GA starting at $40 for an 8 min ride and $80 for an 18 min ride. Nice R44 too.
 
LJS1993 said:
How do helicopters do in weather compared to airplanes?
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Depends on the weather. I've had some very interesting moments hugging the water trying to stay out of ice in the "warmer" air next to the sea. At night in high winds, rain and crappy vis and the occasional rogue wave it is not as much fun as one would think. (I spent three different nights on beaches waiting out freezing rain, hoping a flare would spook a brown bear.) In fog you can slow to a crawl which is a distinct advantage. You have to remember like all tools there are some applications to which the tool is just not suitable. The machines I flew, (HH52A, HH3F ), were great for what they were designed for, although the HH60Js and HH65s are of course much more capable due to the advances in technology. The 52 was slow but built like a brick, the HH3F was tough, fast, and powerful and a joy to fly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpVcWiaTK00
 
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LJS1993 said:
I priced some okay tours here in SoCal in an R44. I might do one this summer to see if I freak out or not. Keep in mind I'm not a pilot like the rest of you guys so who knows.
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I bought a 20 minute intro via Groupon or LivingSocial. It included a 20 minute intro to the R22. The price was about half their regular. I spent the next month investigating nearby helicopter schools and started on transition training (add on to my PP).
At one point, I thought flying a fixed wing was the most fun you could have with your pants on. Helicopter flying is a whole lot more fun.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
Depends on the weather. I've had some very interesting moments hugging the water trying to stay out of ice in the "warmer" air next to the sea. At night in high winds, rain and crappy vis and the occasional rogue wave it is not as much fun as one would think. (I spent three different nights on beaches waiting out freezing rain, hoping a flare would spook a brown bear.) In fog you can slow to a crawl which is a distinct advantage. You have to remember like all tools there are some applications to which the tool is just not suitable. The machines I flew, (HH52A, HH3F ), were great for what they were designed for, although the HH60Js and HH65s are of course much more capable due to the advances in technology. The 52 was slow but built like a brick, the HH3F was tough, fast, and powerful and a joy to fly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpVcWiaTK00
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Very cool. That's the real deal.
 
LJS1993 said:
You know I wonder if there are quite a few pilots with Robinson's who take them on some pretty long trips?
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Sure.

Now go look and see how MANY of them actually do that.

I have a friend who rides a unicycle on a slack wire. Nothing else will do the job for her. She could ride it to the other end of the country -- it's been done -- but she flies because the unicycle isn't really all that practical for long-distance travel, just like a helicopter.
 
RotorAndWing said:
So you would fly in a Scorpion (are any of those still around?) but you wouldn't get near a Robinson?? :dunno:
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That's right.

About 25 years ago, a Robinson fell out of the sky in pieces, over Santa Ana, CA., having been in level cruise flight a moment before.

It seemed that the president of the company was there before the last bits of the rotor blades drifted to the ground, blaming pilot error (the pilot was the owner, and had something like 25 hours in that very copter). This was when they were having rotor delamination issues, but the reflexive response of the manufacturer was to condemn the guy who had given them tens of thousands of dollars for their product.

I just don't trust anyone like that to build an aircraft that I'd fly.

The only problem with the Scorpion is that the flat cabin bottom makes it hard to get into autorotation -- and the solution is simply to cut some holes in the floor and put in flaps made of indoor-outdoor carpet, which will pop up if you have to auto, and let the air flow out the door openings.
 
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denverpilot said:
I'm fascinated by all helicopters. My wallet isn't quite as enthusiastic, however.

I could write a check for the full amount of a rotor transition course right now. The problem becomes, "what would I do with it?"...
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Go look at the guys flying their Mosquito and Rotorway Exec helos on YouTube. Doesn't that look like fun?
 
SoloEqs said:
That's right.

About 25 years ago, a Robinson fell out of the sky in pieces, over Santa Ana, CA., having been in level cruise flight a moment before.

It seemed that the president of the company was there before the last bits of the rotor blades drifted to the ground, blaming pilot error (the pilot was the owner, and had something like 25 hours in that very copter). This was when they were having rotor delamination issues, but the reflexive response of the manufacturer was to condemn the guy who had given them tens of thousands of dollars for their product.

I just don't trust anyone like that to build an aircraft that I'd fly.

The only problem with the Scorpion is that the flat cabin bottom makes it hard to get into autorotation -- and the solution is simply to cut some holes in the floor and put in flaps made of indoor-outdoor carpet, which will pop up if you have to auto, and let the air flow out the door openings.
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:dunno:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
SoloEqs said:
The only problem with the Scorpion is that the flat cabin bottom makes it hard to get into autorotation -- and the solution is simply to cut some holes in the floor and put in flaps made of indoor-outdoor carpet, which will pop up if you have to auto, and let the air flow out the door openings.
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You first. :D
 
SoloEqs said:
The only problem with the Scorpion is that the flat cabin bottom makes it hard to get into autorotation -- and the solution is simply to cut some holes in the floor and put in flaps made of indoor-outdoor carpet, which will pop up if you have to auto, and let the air flow out the door openings.
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mudflaps. cool. do you put the chrome girl figure on the outside or inside?:lol:
 
RotorAndWing said:
Depends upon which Robinson model we are talking about. The R44 has a high inertia rotor so it will ride just fine...
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It also has to do with wing loading. A helicopter has a skinny, high-aspect-ratio wing traveling at hundreds of knots. Turbulence causes less change in the AoA than it would on a large wing going much slower.

Even gyroplanes with rotors lighter and slower than an R22 are significantly better in turbulence than small airplanes.
 
ClimbnSink said:
mudflaps. cool. do you put the chrome girl figure on the outside or inside?:lol:
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Not at all. But you can use the fuzzy dice for a drift indicator . . .

Beats the heck out of what they had to do with the early Bell 47s -- pop the cyclic all the way to the left stop then back, to start a flow of air out from under the cabin to keep it from doing a falling leaf.
 
SoloEqs said:
Not at all. But you can use the fuzzy dice for a drift indicator . . .

Beats the heck out of what they had to do with the early Bell 47s -- pop the cyclic all the way to the left stop then back, to start a flow of air out from under the cabin to keep it from doing a falling leaf.
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So what was the fix?
 
SoloEqs said:
Beats the heck out of what they had to do with the early Bell 47s -- pop the cyclic all the way to the left stop then back, to start a flow of air out from under the cabin to keep it from doing a falling leaf.
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:eek:

:dunno:

couple hundred hours in Bell 47 and I've never heard of that before....
 
RotorAndWing said:
So what was the fix?
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When they started putting horizontal stabilizers on them, that made the tail pop up enough to spill the air out. Once in controlled autorotation, you don't even notice a problem, but you have to get the nose down quickly enough to keep energy in the main rotor. This isn't difficult on heavy helos.

The Scorpion isn't heavy enough for either trick to work well, so letting the air spill out the open doors makes a big difference, somewhat like having no cabin at all. Notice that BJ's follow-on design, the Exec, has a nice, rounded shape underneath.

The Scorpion is a nice little helicopter, that fills a unique place in the food chain -- the inexpensive, owner-maintained play-toy helo. The low-end Mosquito fills that now.
 
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