First for the Blues

Kind of a first. Fat Albert had a female driver a few years ago.
 
I was a little surprised there hadn't been one yet. Women have been flying fighter jets for a long time, haven't they?
 
Jim K said:
I was a little surprised there hadn't been one yet. Women have been flying fighter jets for a long time, haven't they?
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Yeah almost 30 years. Tbirds got their first female demo pilot around 2006. Not sure in the Navy they have a lesser percent of female jet pilots or not. Blues just hadn’t had the right applicant I guess.
 
Maybe someone can explain the hoopla on this one. I mean, yes, she's the first Blue Angels F-18 pilot, but that's getting a little narrow, isn't it? They already had a female pilot member (the C-130 pilot) in 2015, so she's not the first female Blue Angels pilot, nor is she the first female U.S. military demonstration team pilot, that was Nicole Malachowski in 2006. In fact, there have been 6 female Thunderbirds pilots now, which given they do two-year assignments there, means since Nicole there has been a woman on the team more often than not. I think by now it's been well-proven that women can do the job, if that was the issue.

I'm honestly surprised it took the Navy this long. Was it a lack of qualified applicants, or something else?
 
RussR said:
Maybe someone can explain the hoopla on this one. I mean, yes, she's the first Blue Angels F-18 pilot, but that's getting a little narrow, isn't it? They already had a female pilot member (the C-130 pilot) in 2015, so she's not the first female Blue Angels pilot, nor is she the first female U.S. military demonstration team pilot, that was Nicole Malachowski in 2006. In fact, there have been 6 female Thunderbirds pilots now, which given they do two-year assignments there, means since Nicole there has been a woman on the team more often than not. I think by now it's been well-proven that women can do the job, if that was the issue.

I'm honestly surprised it took the Navy this long. Was it a lack of qualified applicants, or something else?
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It’s a big deal to me because of the surprise that it took this long. Why the Blues just finally picked their first female Hornet pilot I don’t know.

35AoA can probably give some better insight on numbers, but in my anecdotal experience, there just aren’t that many female Hornet pilots to begin with.

I know they exist, but in 23 years in the Navy, I personally have never met a female pointy nose pilot. I know many female Naval Aviators, but they are all helo pilots.
 
Velocity173 said:
Yeah almost 30 years. Tbirds got their first female demo pilot around 2006. Not sure in the Navy they have a lesser percent of female jet pilots or not. Blues just hadn’t had the right applicant I guess.
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7% of navy pilots are women. 20% of air force pilots are women. I couldn't find a breakdown of fighter pilots.
 
After a little research it looks like 20% of Airforce pilots are female and only 7% of Navy Pilots area female. Why is the Navy so far behind the Airforce? Is it just the nature of Navy deployments or are there other factors?
 
soarohio said:
After a little research it looks like 20% of Airforce pilots are female and only 7% of Navy Pilots area female. Why is the Navy so far behind the Airforce? Is it just the nature of Navy deployments or are there other factors?
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Facts: AF QOL is far better than the Navy and AF deployments are general less disruptive than the Navy.

Suspicion based on personal observation: Naval Aviation still retains more machoism than the Air Force.
 
RussR said:
Maybe someone can explain the hoopla on this one. I mean, yes, she's the first Blue Angels F-18 pilot, but that's getting a little narrow, isn't it? They already had a female pilot member (the C-130 pilot) in 2015, so she's not the first female Blue Angels pilot, nor is she the first female U.S. military demonstration team pilot, that was Nicole Malachowski in 2006. In fact, there have been 6 female Thunderbirds pilots now, which given they do two-year assignments there, means since Nicole there has been a woman on the team more often than not. I think by now it's been well-proven that women can do the job, if that was the issue.

I'm honestly surprised it took the Navy this long. Was it a lack of qualified applicants, or something else?
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Well it’s a big deal because she’s one of the 6 jet demo pilots. When people think of the Blues and their history, they think of the demo pilots flying in the formation. Nothing against Fat Albert but let’s face it, the people come to see the jet demo at the end.

I also agree with @Fearless Tower above in that there’s probably a higher level of machoism in the Navy vs the AF but they have improved. 10 years ago the Blues had that sexual harassment scandal where they had porn images in the cockpit. Now they have their first female jet demo pilot. That’s a big step forward. Kinda like how the Navy has moved on from Tail Hook…although I’ve always disagreed with the extent of that witch-hunt and the severity of the punishments.

I don’t have a problem with highlighting a significant first like this. I get bored of all the forced representations of females or other minorities in aviation. Too many stories about an all female flight crew or all black flight crew making a “first.” That’s gotten old.
 
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Velocity173 said:
Speaking of the first female Thunderbirds pilot. Never new her career ended so abruptly. Kinda of a reminder to all of us. We’re one medical away from losing our livelihoods.

https://cdmrp.army.mil/cwg/stories/2018/nicole_malachowski_profile
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Yeah, it's a really sad story. I remember when I found out Nicole was selected for the Thunderbirds, I thought "well that doesn't surprise me at all". She obviously was having a great career, went on to great things after the Thunderbirds, then one tick bite ended it all (and caused a long, difficult recovery).

She does a lot of motivational speaking and that kind of thing now, which is good to see.
 
soarohio said:
After a little research it looks like 20% of Airforce pilots are female and only 7% of Navy Pilots area female. Why is the Navy so far behind the Airforce? Is it just the nature of Navy deployments or are there other factors?
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What it’s not is discrimination… if I were making a bet.
 
X3 Skier said:
Why?
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It’s not. I was being sarcastic. I think it’s kind of a nothing burger.
However… I hired a woman to teach me to fly many years ago and there have been women in every professional space of my career. Often in positions of leadership and management. So honestly. I could not care less what some rando LT is doing in the navy.

I would love to see her fly but not because she has different reproductive parts. It’s more about the entertainment value of a **** hot pilot flying fast close and g-loaded really close to where I’m standing.
 
To become a Blue Angles pilot you have to be unusually competitive and aggressive. Even in the fighter pilot community, most of the male pilots don't make it.

When you look at competitiveness and aggressiveness distribution in the population, those at the far top end of the scale are almost all men.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
...However… I hired a woman to teach me to fly many years ago and there have been women in every professional space of my career. Often in positions of leadership and management...
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There was a woman CFI working at the FBO where I was taught who delivered aircraft from the factories to military bases during WWII (gives you an idea of how old I am) :yikes:
 
Just my take, but female pilots get pregnant…it’s not just a man’s deal I am told…anyway probably the number one thing that interrupts careers and flying in the military for female Aviators. One of the best Unit Trainers and just phenomenal Apache pilot I had was forced to return to CONUS on a deployment when she realized she was pregnant a couple of days into a deployment. She was more than upset to return stateside…Realize pre-deployment required pregnancy tests prior…Her husband a UH-60 driver also in the ACR was not happy either…Realty is biology makes for a real issue for female military aviation…probably no different in the civilian side. FYI some of the best Aviators I ever had in units were female…but I soon learned that it would always be an issue. Congrats to her she is probably one of the best!
 
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PastZTL said:
The story didn't say, but do you know if it was Lyme disease?
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Not sure. I was actually thinking the same thing though. Wonder if it was Lyme Disease.
 
Warlock said:
Just my take, but female pilots get pregnant…it’s not just a man’s deal I am told…anyway probably the number one thing that interrupts careers and flying in the military for female Aviators. One of the best Unit Trainers and just phenomenal Apache pilot I had was forced to return to CONUS on a deployment when she realized she was pregnant a couple of days into a deployment. She was more than upset to return stateside…Realize pre-deployment required pregnancy tests prior…Her husband a UH-60 driver also in the ACR was not happy either…Realty is biology makes for a real issue for female military aviation…probably no different in the civilian side. FYI some of the best Aviators I ever had in units were female…but I soon learned that it would always be an issue. Congrats to her she probably one of the best!
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I actually saw the same thing down range only flip flopped. Husband was an Apache dude and she flew 60s. I remember it being a bit controversial in that the pregnancy happened while deployed. The command wasn’t going to make a big issue of it though. Just send her home and deal with one less pilot in the company.
 
Life for a woman in Naval Aviation is hell. It’s hard enough to live on a carrier as a guy…. I
was in the squadron when the first wave of women allowed to fly in combat units came through, so I knew most all of them, we went to flight school together.

It is a weirdly hyper masculine world. Far from insurmountable, but I can see where there would simply be fewer suited to it. Also, it’s much more demanding from a flying standpoint, and flatly pretty damn scary, that’s gonna reduce the number who will make it.

I don’t know about the Tbirds, but the blues choose from within, period. It ain’t a matter of flying skill, but whether you’re “best friend” material. They live, breathe, eat, sleep, EVERYTHING together. I have a couple buds that when we wrench together we just anticipate each other’s actions, never even ask for a hand, tool, nothing. Well, ALL SEVEN of them do that. It’s pretty amazing. As probs and stats go, multiply these together, it simply took longer and politics weren’t allowed to make it happen quicker.

Navy Air tried that once and we had the Holtgren incident… which was tragic.
 
RussR said:
Yes, it was, that and "other tick-borne illnesses".
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My wife contracted Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever as a kid and was hospitalized for a decent spell. It can cause some lasting health problems I believe.
 
RussR said:
Maybe someone can explain the hoopla on this one. I mean, yes, she's the first Blue Angels F-18 pilot, but that's getting a little narrow, isn't it? They already had a female pilot member (the C-130 pilot) in 2015, so she's not the first female Blue Angels pilot, nor is she the first female U.S. military demonstration team pilot, that was Nicole Malachowski in 2006. In fact, there have been 6 female Thunderbirds pilots now, which given they do two-year assignments there, means since Nicole there has been a woman on the team more often than not. I think by now it's been well-proven that women can do the job, if that was the issue.

I'm honestly surprised it took the Navy this long. Was it a lack of qualified applicants, or something else?
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Not surprised tbirds were first. USAF is always a little ahead of USN except for budget allocations. :)
 
Air Force: if the manual doesn’t specifically authorize something it’s by default prohibited.

Navy: if the manual doesn’t specifically prohibit something it’s by default authorized.

Marines: excuse me but while you’re reading the manual would you please point me and my buddies in the direction of the people we are supposed to kill.

Army: heLicoPters aRe cOooL. yoUre aLl jeAlous
 
I'm friends with a retired female Navy F18 fighter pilot. Known her since Kindergarten. Her last gig was as a T45 squadron commander.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I'm friends with a retired female Navy F18 fighter pilot. Known her since Kindergarten. Her last gig was as a T45 squadron commander.
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Seriously - ask her what percentage of Hornet drivers are female. I'm genuinely curious and she'd probably know best.
 
We had 250 pilots and FOs in the air wing? Three women, Stroke, Skell and Mouth!
 
Undefined decades later from @Tools experience, I'd say the pilot ratio is about the same. Any given airwing probably has a half dozen female pointy nose pilots at most, on average, out of maybe 50-60ish. That being said, there have been decent numbers of female WSO/ECMO/EWOs (backseater, non-pilots) for years now.....not a majority, but it isn't uncommon. Lots of gals in the back of E-2's as well. Lots of female helo pilots too. On my last active duty deployment, our airwing had 2 female F/A-18 or EA-18 pilots total, and one of them went permanently med down after a couple weeks, which left one. My squadron did not have any.
 
The next time I take my daughter to fleet-week and she get's to meet some of the pilots as we did one year she may get to meet this one:fcross:
 
Oh ya… we were supposed to have a forth… but she didn’t make cruise for reasons that are REALLY a good story. And define why it ain’t a great idea.

I left the squadron before the next cruise. I was the av/arm Div O and had two branch Os working for me. One was the first female non aircrew officer in the squadron. Turns out, she didn’t make the next cruise, for reasons that make a really good story, and define why it ain’t a great idea.

spoiler alert. Being in the military somewhat caters to our will to survive. Which is trumped by EXACTLY one thing. That’s all I got to say about that.

Uh… undefined decades! BWAHAHAHA!! Damn, I feel old now!
 
Tools said:
Oh ya… we were supposed to have a forth… but she didn’t make cruise for reasons that are REALLY a good story. And define why it ain’t a great idea.

I left the squadron before the next cruise. I was the av/arm Div O and had two branch Os working for me. One was the first female non aircrew officer in the squadron. Turns out, she didn’t make the next cruise, for reasons that make a really good story, and define why it ain’t a great idea.

spoiler alert. Being in the military somewhat caters to our will to survive. Which is trumped by EXACTLY one thing. That’s all I got to say about that.

Uh… undefined decades! BWAHAHAHA!! Damn, I feel old now!
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You ever work with Loree Draude? She flew S-3s. Read her book a long time ago. Good honest account of the gender integration issues in Naval Aviation of the early 90s.
 
Tools said:
Oh ya… we were supposed to have a forth… but she didn’t make cruise for reasons that are REALLY a good story. And define why it ain’t a great idea.

I left the squadron before the next cruise. I was the av/arm Div O and had two branch Os working for me. One was the first female non aircrew officer in the squadron. Turns out, she didn’t make the next cruise, for reasons that make a really good story, and define why it ain’t a great idea.

spoiler alert. Being in the military somewhat caters to our will to survive. Which is trumped by EXACTLY one thing. That’s all I got to say about that.

Uh… undefined decades! BWAHAHAHA!! Damn, I feel old now!
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So you tell us twice about a something that's a "really good story" but don't tell the story?
 
Ya. No. That’ll get me banned. Not closely with Lorre, but knew her. I flew S3’s too.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Seriously - ask her what percentage of Hornet drivers are female. I'm genuinely curious and she'd probably know best.
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She doesn't know, but gave me these stats:

When she went through training, there were 4 females out of 200+ in the program.
She said someone told her that there have been 150 total females ever trained on the F/A 18 but she didn't know how accurate that number is.

In the meantime, I teased her that she didn't know who had more traps - her or her husband. They are apparently not competitive about it. :)
 
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